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Balance, content, or both?

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1/30/2014 6:59:02   
Ranloth
Banned


 This is something often being brought up around the Forum, and at the same time, it's almost always vetoed due to various reasons.

EpicDuel, as any other game, has its schedule for releases for next upcoming weeks and/or months. For one, AQ has already planned its releases for 2014, which shows something. Yes, changing the schedule is almost impossible, once it's been confirmed, but that is subject to the Team size as well as the available free releases which can be anything - i.e. Seasonal Events must always be released, so x amount of releases each year are already taken.

Content is required to keep players interested in the game, and keep playing. No one can stand pure PvP or constant NPCs. Balance is needed to survive in PvP, although not so much vs. NPCs, but that's not an excuse. It's impossible to forgo one for another. Game would collapse very fast if there was focus on only one of them - all the time that is, not having small breaks in-between, to focus on bigger content/balance release.

Bigger changes take more time. Small Team makes it even more difficult. Fair example is passives to actives change - postponed by few months (balance). Another example is the Tutorial - postponed by a week (content). Likewise with phase changes - Omega was postponed by two months, IIRC (balance AND content). There's plenty of examples to back this up with, but this should do.
Ideal ratio between the two, would be 50/50. But that can never happen, because some changes have higher priority than others, so it's often being shifted around.

If one wants a lot of content to play through, or significant (major) balance changes, they need more than a week to do so, and that's purely focusing on one area. In one week, you can accomplish a simple bandaid fix, which is not permanent and will not work in the long run. Players dislike it, because the issues remain. Longer changes are often worth the wait, some people will complain, but they also dislike the amount of time it takes, because they have to put up with the issue for much longer. In other words, you can't please everyone, and there needs to be balance between the two.

Would the players rather see more content or more balance?

For example, would you like - say - two releases in the row purely focused on altering skills, and focusing on releasing new cores or even skills for classes? Or perhaps more content to keep you occupied, in form of missions, rewards, and so on? You cannot have one of them and shift all the attention onto one area. That's a straight up no.

Read before you reply:

  • We are the minority on Forum, so we cannot vouch for everyone.
    • Merely give more in-depth feedback, but we aren't any more important than players in-game.
  • Rabble could have a new poll, for players in-game (one vote per account), for players to vote on what they want.
    • [1] More content, less balance. [2] Mix of both. [3] More balance, less content. [4] Any option Devs can think of...
  • Even if this was to work, the Devs would not be able to shift all their schedule.
    • This could likely be a temporary solution, when time is available for free releases and there'd be no harm in postponing some changes.

    I am hoping this thread isn't breaking any rules. Falls under discussion, no mention of finances and such, doesn't fall under balance directly, and isn't a suggestion either.

    Well...

    DiscussiOn!
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 1
    1/30/2014 7:06:00   
    Silver Sky Magician
    Member


    		 Content for me. That's the only reason I play. Better balance would prevent EpicDuel from repelling me, but there's no attraction factor either. Better balance is for those who play EpicDuel by default. More content is for those who don't play EpicDuel by default. That being said, I would agree that better balance is necessary to fully enjoy content releases, though PvP battles do constitute a minority of content release missions.
    Post #: 2
    1/30/2014 7:16:09   
    Noobatron x3000
    Member

    		Balance

    Simply put I've gone from a hardcore player who played every day 4-6 hours to someone who struggles to stomach playing a hour . Due to appauling balance , content is all well and good but in a pvp game balance is essential. The game is broken to the point people have given up and lost all faith it will ever be fixed and left. Hopefully if the staff fix it fast enough they may return they may never look back. Gotta be worth trying to fix it though.

    Please dont misinterpret me when i say fix it i dont mean break one class to make another class replace it as the op class.
    Post #: 3
    1/30/2014 8:33:33   
    comicalbike
    Member

    		well what i mean with balance is probably different to you when game is out of balance say like now mages op not nerf the mages because that is easy,but the others to make it better i know thats harder but thats the way i think we like a strong class but others must be strong to
    Epic  Post #: 4
    1/30/2014 8:48:04   
    Jekyll
    Member

    		Balance. It's perfectly fine to have one/two classes be slightly stronger than the others. That is normal for a game of PvP nature. Balance will never be perfect. But what we cannot have is 80% of the population, figuratively speaking, being these one/two classes.

    This just drives away players who do not or cannot change classes everytime a change is made. These players include: (1) casual players who cannot grind enough credits to change class (2) players who cannot access Varium due to locational issues (3) players who simply don't have the financial means to splurge on an online flash game (4) players who have lost interest in the game and have decided to stop spending on it (like me).

    As such, this leaves us with a few groups of people who CAN afford to change class whenever there is a balance update.
    -Hardcore players, definitely fewer than 75 --> defined as those who play 8+ hours a day, and go for daily championships regularly.
    -Rich customers (who will eventually get tired of the game) --> there is an upper limit to expenditure after all
    -New players who are still enjoying the game --> the issues with ED will become apparent to them over time

    Not that this situation is irreparable, but the repeated changes in game structure, the most obvious ones being Omega and also the passive-to-active change, only allow a very small group of players to enjoy the game, while players who have experienced previous phases will inadvertently make comparisons to Beta, Gamma, Delta, etc. and reminisce.

    Hence, content updates will be preferred, but they have to be supplemented by minor balance updates, and very gradual changes in game mechanics. If players don't like the new mechanics, revert back to what they originally were. As Trans suggested, make use of Rabble's poll button. Advertise it on the 'What's New' screen if necessary. Do something to save this game.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
    1/30/2014 8:58:05   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 By balance, I mean purely focusing on major changes. Passives to actives took a long time, because they had to focus on the Dread War and add features to that. In terms of free releases and pure focus on balance, that is all they'd do for the week, so revamping one feature at the time could perhaps be done in a week + testing one feature would be easy, instead of a chunky release.

    One step at the time - Rabble wants to revamp blocks, deflections, crits and rage. Impossible in one or two weeks, if we talk about full revamp but rage could be dealt with at once + perhaps minor balance changes to skills, if needed. This means Rabble can focus on the remaining two - perhaps crits would be next, to reduce the impact of offensive builds. And lastly, he could deal with deflections and blocks at once - some other time that is.

    If things are taken apart, and dealt with separately, it will be completed someday. It's better than having to wait for the day, and it may not be perfect. Doing it in parts gives us a chance to return some feedback and improve the newly revamped feature (i.e. rage).
    Or new cores. Focus purely on improving diversity, by looking at Xendran's cores thread and implement some of them. Don't have to be the most complex ones, but even the simple ones. Variety is what Omega intended to bring, and cores are its main selling point. This falls under balance and content even.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 6
    1/30/2014 9:49:34   
    DeathGuard
    Member

    		While I consider balance is one of the most important details to take in consideration when playing EpicDuel, content is what makes me play the game at most. Not saying balance musn't be fixed, rather focusing on balance before content would be the wiser idea, since some players may enjoy content more than balance changes, but when trying to enjoy such with balance problems that affect the gameplay directly to each of the players, the feeling of joy isn't the same thing, bittersweet to be more specific. I have played most events since the start of Beta and some were elaborated well, sadly the current gameplay and balance weren't that good making some players disgust not only the balance but rather the event at the same time.

    While many balance changes would bore out players, you could do the shifting of a schedule:
    1st Month
    1st week: Balance updates
    2nd week: Content
    3rd Week: Balance Updates
    4rd Week: Balance Updates
    2nd month
    1st week: Content
    2nd Week: Balance Updates
    3rd Week: Content
    4rd Week: Content

    And so on, you could dedicate most part of a month to one of the two options, focusing in balance updates or content, depending in the season we're in. Currently we are close to Valentine's Day, so you could prepare minor balance updates and release new content apart from the last year gear to keep the current players.

    Alas, I had go with balance. Pretty much the fundamental base of the game currently.


    < Message edited by DeathGuard -- 1/30/2014 9:50:37 >
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
    1/30/2014 9:56:58   
    Xendran
    Member

    		Balance IS content when it involves new skills.
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
    1/30/2014 10:04:59   
    DeathGuard
    Member

    		We mean content as new weapoms, items, missions, feature, etc.
    While you consider balance is content when it involves new skills, we don't get new skills or remakes that often, rather revamps of the ones we currently have, the so called patches and minor balance updates.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
    1/30/2014 10:11:34   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 New skills and new cores do fall under new content (and balance). It's something new in the game. New weapons doesn't necessarily fall under new content, because all weapons are the same, although that's already something subjective to discuss.

    @DeathGuard
    You cannot plan releases just like that. They've already got schedule for next few weeks, at the very least, and possibly long-term projects which we aren't aware of but may be released at some point in time. Free releases are ones where there's no content planned for (no seasonals to be released) and no other projects are taking priority. At that point in time, thanks to the poll in-game, players could decide what they want - filler content release, or focus on balance changes instead. Of course, that planning would also happen weeks in advance.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 10
    1/30/2014 10:38:56   
    DeathGuard
    Member

    		@trans: Just giving an example, not necessarily the most beneficial, just trying to show a bit off what I think they could possibly focus on, like focusing e.g. in one feature or stuff instead of multitasking with balance + content + features+ fixes and so on.
    Free releases are an interesting theme since if you have free releases, you are implying balance is solved which hasn't yet, not the correct term to be used, maybe something more sutile would help as a term here but yes, such "free" releases is where no content is planned, polls have been managed to be helpful but sadly, some of the votes are biased which isn't something helpful for the voting and I wouldn't take it as a good way to receive opinions or comments IMO.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
    1/31/2014 1:50:40   
    Pemberton
    Member
     

    		 Obvious it is BOTH. But I think content is priority over balance. Because exciting game is better than a boring balanced game.
    Post #: 12
    1/31/2014 6:51:00   
    Calogero
    Member

    		Depends on the status of the game itself...
    If Balance is as broken as it is now, then they should focus on balance
    If the Balance is managable then they can focus on Content
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
    1/31/2014 8:45:02   
    Cyber Dream
    Member

    		I would prefer more content and less balance. Why? Simply because balance will never be balance. Makes sense? As of now, im loving the content EpicDuel is putting out. The discussions I have with my friends now are not mainly about balance anymore, instead... it's about the new content and features that are coming to ED.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 14
    1/31/2014 8:50:08   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		^ actually that's called getting used to it.
    people will get used to bad balance and will adapt as they always do.

    but i do agree content is better than balance , because staff are better at content than balance , so let's get what's good.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 15
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