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Rage backup plan

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3/22/2014 16:47:25   
lampur1
Member

As every1 know devs already sayed that they have an idea how to fix rage. as know rage was first there to fight tanks so you would deal some damage to them but was never meant to deal lots of damage on low def res enemys.
i made this suggestion incase they (not to be mean or violate rules) screw something up.
Rage
Ignores 25% of enemys defence and resistance.
example- if enemy has 400 defence or resistance the rage will ignore 25% meaning it will hit amount for 300 defence or resistance.
example 2- enemy has 200 defence or resistance the rage will ignore 25% meaning it will hit amount for 150 defence or resistance.
if you didnt understand than if enemy has low resistance or defence the rage will give a smaller buff to the attack rather than if enemy has high def res it will get a bigger buff on hit.
i havent tried or thought on the % i chose so it can be changed.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/23/2014 11:17:13   
Thylek Shran
Member

Not supported as this will make HP builds even more powerfull.
It would punish players who invested their skill points into tech and dex.

I think it would be the best to remove Rage completly as it benefits
always some kind of builds while it punishs others.
DF Epic  Post #: 2
3/23/2014 11:25:42   
lampur1
Member

sorry to say but rage was actuly introduced to make it eaier to beat tanks not destroy low defence players.
on the other hand removing it will break balance more.
than every1 will take tank build and rule and beat all the non tank builds.
i actuly dont ike rage as well due to it beeing a reason i lose alot of battles
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
3/23/2014 13:32:45   
Thylek Shran
Member

Rage got implemented when there was just 3 classes (TM, BH, Merc)
to be able to defeat Mercenaries when they had a passive Hybrid Armor
that was switchable from phys to energy and reversable by the cost of 1 turn.
This made tanks (Mercs) to powerfull so that something was needed to
counter Hybrid Armor. Rage also was usefull to counter TM heal loop tanks
but this was during the times of the passive Reroute skill.

Now that passive skills got removed Rage is no longer necessary.
Rage is maybe the main reason why offensive builds with high health points
dominate the game so much since the removal of passive skills.

As an attack does grant more rage points to the attacker than taking damage
to the defender in most situations the actual Rage system benefits attackers
and especially offensive builds that can force their opponents to do defensive
moves with very small rage gain. Your suggestion does not balance this
unfairness. If a removed Rage system does make tanks to powerfull,
dexterity and technology has to be nerfed. Maybe also the active armor skills.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 3/23/2014 13:42:06 >
DF Epic  Post #: 4
3/23/2014 13:42:23   
Ranloth
Banned


 Sorry, Thylek, but you're wrong. Rage was still designed with tanks in mind, not one class who had a passive Armor. Removal of Rage will not be happening, because that would overpower tank builds. It's designed to give you an edge against tanks, but right now, it benefits offensive builds much more than intended. Based on your explanation, you're saying Rage was implemented to nerf two builds, which it wasn't...

Rage is NOT the reason why offensive builds + high HP builds are that common, but the simple fact offense is stronger than defense. If that was the case, then low HP builds were underpowered, because Rage could kill them. Without Rage, low HP builds would end up overpowered because your damage would be too little to overcome their defenses, and you'd have no chance to kill them if they looped Heal or whatever their strategy is.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
3/24/2014 3:41:33   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

Based on your explanation, you're saying Rage was implemented to nerf two builds, which it wasn't...

I did not wrote this. I wrote that Rage also was usefull to counter TM heal loop tanks but not that it
was a reason for adding Rage.


Two of your arguments are inconsistent, Trans:
quote:

Rage is NOT the reason why offensive builds + high HP builds are that common, but the simple fact offense is stronger than defense

If offense (without Rage) is stronger than defense, Rage could be removed.

quote:

Removal of Rage will not be happening, because that would overpower tank builds.

But you wrote that offense is stronger than defense. So how could tank builds be overpowered
without Rage ?

DF Epic  Post #: 6
3/24/2014 7:11:08   
Ranloth
Banned


 They are consistent. I didn't say offensive builds are stronger than defensive builds. I said that offense is stronger than defense, which takes into account all offensive skills and stat progressions. Likewise for defense. You need offense to win, not defense.

Removal of rage means dealing lesser damage. Weakening offense, and buffing defense. That's how tank builds would reclaim their spot as being the strongest build type. That doesn't mean Rage is overpowering those high HP and offensive builds, but rather works in their advantage right now (so the builds aren't overpowered, but the Rage is making them seem like they are). It's a broken concept that needs fixing, not a complete removal.

Edit: Just to add some more info.

Defensive builds with offensive skills. We know TMs can pull that off very well, with Caster and Dex builds. They get great defense, and great offense from these skills. How does one defeat these? They can tank, and deal high damage. Rage is the answer, because you can counter their high defenses. The only flaw is, the benefit is too high for offensive builds and - as the result - it makes defensive builds weak (unless you have offensive skill-tree + easy to loop; TMs), and offensive builds a little bit too strong

So yeah, right now, defense isn't as efficient thanks to Rage. If you remove Rage, it will make defense too efficient + classes with Dex/Tech-improving skills would love it. Offense is too strong, but that's due to how things scale (skills, stat progression, etc.) - not because of Rage.

< Message edited by Trans -- 3/24/2014 8:22:36 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
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