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new builds always op?

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8/18/2014 0:48:17   
dfo99
Member
 

 when some new build is found and many players use it (for tests maybe), always appear many players saying that it is op because they apear on lb, ignoring completly other builds for other classes which not appear in lbs, like focus 5 cyber hunter build for exemple which is possible reach very good win rates, but not have players appearing on lb using it. then the devs nerf completly the classe.

I am correct about it?
for you is the BM time?
set 1 classe change per year could help fix this problem?

thread focused on discussion.
Post #: 1
8/18/2014 1:59:42   
Mother1
Member

Here is the cycle that always happens in this order.

1 A strong build is found/created by someone
2 The strong build is copied by other who want to win but can't/won't experiment to find their own builds with the fear of losing
3 The build becomes overused
4 People who don't want to copy said build but get beaten by said build complain about it being overpowered even when people find counters for said build and even post them
5 The staff gives in and nerfs skills and/or the class itself
6 A new build or builds that were kept in check by the previously nerfed build grow in power due to this and take it's place
7 The cycle of number 2-6 continues

That basically it in a nutshell.

When I was playing the previous war I was hit hard with all the same BM's copying the same builds of either strength (which can overwhelm me due to my moderate defenses and moderate offensive power) or focus 4-5 BM using strength. Being a TM using a focus build it was a bit harder for me to fight them, but eventually I started getting wins when I learned their patterns and found ways of countering them or Manipulating thing to work in my favor.

Other classes such as Mercenary can outclass BM builds due to their hybrid armor and blood commander. But to be honest while many of these builds can be overwealming depending on your build none of them are unbeatable from what I have seen. They are more overused than overpowered due to seeing so many people fighting with them rather than them being unbeatable.
Epic  Post #: 2
8/18/2014 2:55:27   
ScarletReaper
Member

A lot of people are surprised when my focus tm beats them. I beat strength bounties, dex mages, strength mages, strength support cybers, strength massacre cybers, the only one I have trouble with is strength bloodmages for some reason. -_- Not saying that makes them op, just saying that build is my build's weakness. Every build has a weakness. But you just can't expect to use one build and have a 80-90 win percentage.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
8/18/2014 16:59:40   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Because majority of the people are sheeple and want to use the easiest build with the most decent win rate; they follow the build that a good amount of the playerbase is already using. Then people get angry because they lose to said build and most likely convert to that same build too after losing against it a few times in a row. The thought of making counter builds probably rarely crosses their minds.
Epic  Post #: 4
8/18/2014 17:02:53   
Mother1
Member

To add on to what exploding penguin is saying it is because of that thing that we have people here in the forums wanting things nerfed because the become overused due to people

A) not wanting to change their builds and wanting their build to destroy everything which if you think about it is ironic seeing as all builds must have a weakness
B) They want people to use something else besides said build which for all we know could be their bane build or the one that counters them quite easy.
Epic  Post #: 5
8/21/2014 10:05:33   
nowras
Member

I have always been bm and my build is now the best in ED (STR PARASITE BM) Made 100% by me

And for ur info Ik the build that can counter mine its made by me too but not gonna tell u what's it + im not scared if the game nerfs bm ill go Merc and use my OP build (Ill create it) and ppl will copy me again in Omega best build makers are .Darkness Lord. (me) Matt 1000 (quit) Imperial Bloody (I helped him with the 1st bm str build when passives were there) Ruthless Bunny (Idiocy.) ''He made the OP TM focus build it was Upgraded by me to the one with 5 super charge and it was the best. Krepax and urfear are good build makers too Xamurai but not that much So if you want to sort them from Top 1 to Top 7

Top 1 : .Darkness Lord. (Made like 4 OP builds (Glass Cannon upgrade - Tm F5 Upgrade - Blood Mage str no parasite build - Blood mage str Parasite build))

Top 2 : Idiocy. (Made the best TM build ever)

Top 3 : Matt 1000 (Made the best bh builds after and b4 passives were removed)

Top 4 : KR3P4X and urFear (Their builds were always op)

Top 5 : Variation and Conqrr ( The best % builds but requires +6 cores that are expensive also I think my build would be better with 6+ cores)

Top 6 : Imperial Bloody ( Made the best bm build (Passives time))

Top 7 : Xamurai (Made some builds)


Post edited to combine a double post which isn't allowed. Please use your 'Edit' button to add-too/change your posts instead. Thanks! ~M4B

< Message edited by Melissa4Bella -- 8/21/2014 18:29:18 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
8/21/2014 10:05:44   
Satafou
Member

Nowras, you've not always been bm, and you didn't 100% make that build. You 100% copied it. Everyone including yourself knows that Str bm with parasite was made by Variation. I don't even know why you bothered to post that as it has got nothing to do with this topic, a lie and a useless lie at that, just a brag about something you didn't even make.

On topic new builds aren't always op'd. It's only once in a while new builds become op. People who experiment with classes and all their possibilities are more likely to come across a opd build. Builds are made all the time every day, however not all of them catch on and not all of them are flawlessly put together for them to be the next overpowered build.
Post #: 7
8/21/2014 10:05:58   
Variation
Member
 

 @nowras: I wonder why I never lose to it then, it's definitely not as strong as you advocate it to be in the forums. I don't understand what that has to do with the thread. It's pure bragging based on unfactual premises.

I don't believe that new overused builds are always overpowered. People seem to believe if a particular thing is overused it implies that it's overpowered and that definitely isn't true. All of the current "flavor" builds have counters to them. The "flavor" builds can be defeated with a good strategy and while they may be overused they aren't overpowered.

< Message edited by Variation -- 8/21/2014 10:06:18 >
Post #: 8
8/21/2014 10:08:41   
nowras
Member

Variation doesnt use the str parasite build he is not even str lol 35+35 str is not a str build variation ur using 6+ cores thats why
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
8/21/2014 10:12:46   
suboto
Member

I dont exactly like the non stop strike skills or that plasma cannon.
Btw 90% of 1v1 is blood mage xD.
I wondering when stun grenade gets its deserve buff
Epic  Post #: 10
8/21/2014 10:17:19   
Satafou
Member

Nowras he has 35+38+6 str now I don't know about you however I believe that 79 str is classed as a str build. It may not be strength abuse, but it is a good number for a strength build. 552-585 is good primary damage. I'm not sure how that isn't classed as strength because 5 focus and support builds certainly don't have that strength.

< Message edited by Satafou -- 8/21/2014 10:21:05 >
Post #: 11
8/21/2014 10:19:47   
nowras
Member

his build is called tank str ;)
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
8/21/2014 10:21:56   
Satafou
Member

Nowras you have 6 more strength than him. So tell me does 6 stats change someone from a str build to a tank/str build?
Post #: 13
8/21/2014 10:25:59   
nowras
Member

i have 15 more str
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
8/21/2014 10:29:45   
Satafou
Member

12 more base str not total strength...

< Message edited by Satafou -- 8/21/2014 10:43:04 >
Post #: 15
8/21/2014 14:11:49   
kosmo
Member
 

 @nowars.
Your build can be easely taken with strong intimidates and some support.

A strong mercenary can easely take blood mages and most of other builds.
At level 40, blood commander adds 47 to your strenght with the lowest support, up 58 on the common 5 focus builds, for 4 turns , granting 60% strenght gained in lifesteal (intimidate will not affect the lifesteal), whoever played enought since merc got buffed, will agree with me that this skill cannot be countered if not with the azrael borg/aux.
Mercenary is the most op class for one clear reason: TO COUNTER BLOOD COMMANDER YOU REQUIRE AZRAEL' s borg/aux.
It' s not fair, when the only way to counter a certan skill is a core, sold seasonally and for very high price, that most of players don' t know how to use and that never really grants you the win against that skill.




< Message edited by kosmo -- 8/21/2014 14:47:52 >
Epic  Post #: 16
8/21/2014 15:17:44   
Variation
Member
 

 ^It grants me the win every single time actually. They BC, then I aux core, and then intimidate and they will lose every single time. I even killed you (KR3P4X) with that strategy and I don't consider you a weak player. While Mercenary may be very strong, it definitely isn't overpowered. It just requires more tactics to counter. While it's certainly true that not everyone has access to azrael gear it's also true that everyone has access to defensive buffs. I know players that don't even use the azrael gear that manage fine against BC mercs just by utilizing defensive buffs. Mercenaries that rely completely on Blood Commander don't even stand a chance against an experienced player. This is part of the reason why I believe Mercenary as a class is pretty balanced, along with Blood Mages. Players just refuse to expend effort into strategies and would rather blame balance as a problem. I will say that some skills are in need of tweaking, but 100% blaming a skill for a loss isn't professional.
Post #: 17
8/21/2014 15:34:40   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 IMO it's hilarious how you guys are so hung up on how having like 15 more strength means that your build is more of a strength build. I also find it hilarious as to why people actually care about who made a build that everyone hates. Note that making a successful strength BM build (or a strength build of almost any type) is something even a newbie could do since the amount of thought required in placing skill points strategically is close to none.

From experience:

BC bulky strength merc wrecks pretty much any BM build. It just absolutely kills them with barely any trouble.
Epic  Post #: 18
8/21/2014 16:07:19   
Variation
Member
 

 ^Every build I've played as a BM killed them 100% of the time. That is my experience from actually facing rank 30+ BC Mercenaries. They're extremely easy to kill and I have to try much harder against the other classes (excluding CH). Even if they manage to cast BC again later on in the battle I still don't lose to them. I've faced a ton of BC Mercenaries and I'm speaking off of complete experience when I say they're defeated easily as a Blood Mage. That is of course if you play correctly against them, which many players just don't. The saddest part about most BC Mercenaries is that from what I see in battle they aren't even using a maul, meaning the only way they can get energy back is by the use of cores which puts them at a serious disadvantage. Another sad thing is that those BC Mercenaries are causing an uproar in-game and in the forums because players would rather accuse balance instead of accusing their strategies. You absolutely have to formulate strategies in this game, for all of the classes not just Mercenary. If players refuse to invest time into strategies, then they're the ones causing their losses not balance.

< Message edited by Variation -- 8/21/2014 16:35:28 >
Post #: 19
8/21/2014 16:59:19   
kosmo
Member
 

 the real question isnt who s better between merc and bm (merc obiusly), but how stronger these 2 classes are if compared to all the others.


it s easy to say that winning is only up to strategy, but i bet u would change ur mind as a tlm or a ch;
to provide serius balance the numbers of many skills should be taken into consideration togheter, not 1 by 1.
Epic  Post #: 20
8/21/2014 18:35:02   
Melissa4Bella
AmeSylph


 And this thread is a perfect example of why threads get deleted or locked in this forum. You just cannot stay away from the name-calling, trolling, harrassing and flaming. Until everyone decides that posting with that sort of behavior just is not worth it, threads will simply be locked or deleted.

You simply have to make up your minds to step beyond that and then follow it through. And then maybe you will realize just how much fun a forum can be once you do. But until then, you're not getting away with it here.

Thread Dusted!
AQ DF  Post #: 21
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