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1/2/2015 6:34:23   
beaststyles
Member
 

 Just a quick suggestion. I feel it would be more fair if double exp/creds was also applied to loosing matches.

I will explain my reason for this using level 40s but applies at all levels. When a higher rank goes against a lower rank, the higher rank is at an advantage to win. This means when the stronger player wins they get stronger (due to ranking up faster) whereas the weaker player gets weaker (indirectly in relation to stronger getting stronger). In other words the current system aids the strong getting stronger or increases the gap between the stronger and the weaker player.

I think I may have suggested this idea a few years back but I don't remember the response. I thought of it again and it still makes sense to me so I thought I will make a quick post about it.

Beaststyles.
Post #: 1
1/2/2015 8:13:59   
Lord Machaar
Member

There are already players throwing fights to win credits out of losing.
If they double credits/exp of losing, number of those players will increase. As losing will be more beneficial than winning, unequiping your weapons, lowering your hp, your losses don't show up = easy credits.
MQ Epic  Post #: 2
1/2/2015 8:47:48   
King Bling
Member

Not supported. There are already a lot of botters, this would encourage more of em'.
Post #: 3
1/2/2015 10:08:31   
Mother1
Member

Not supported.

This would only encourage botters and trolls in game since they would be rewarded more for losing.
Epic  Post #: 4
1/2/2015 12:38:20   
beaststyles
Member
 

 I understand your concerns about botters;however so according to you guys strong getting stronger is of no concern? And it is ok to neglect the weaker player because of botters?
Post #: 5
1/2/2015 21:43:38   
RageSoul
Member

+1 to this suggestion

Oh and for the botting thing , remember that even the player who wins get benefits just as fast as the speed suicider , so the only drawback would be the speeder meets with different people .... until your difference chances between meeting the same player and others are smaller.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
1/3/2015 2:53:57   
Thylek Shran
Member

They dont get stronger as everyone does win versus weaker characters.
Its long ago since I did met a botter so they are not a problem.
Even if there are botters around they are less than 1% of player base.
100% of the players would benefit from this suggestion.
It only would be logical that losses also give double xp/credits. Rewards
for lossing would have to be generally removed and not only for power hour
if botters would be a problem.
DF Epic  Post #: 7
1/3/2015 3:31:30   
The Jop
Member

It would be nice for power hours/weekends to benefit you even in losses.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
1/3/2015 6:41:47   
Lord Machaar
Member

We said, that botters currently are there, with this suggestion being implemented, they will increase, many will join, the game will go down.
MQ Epic  Post #: 9
1/3/2015 8:59:07   
RageSoul
Member

^And we'll end up with people just end up doing your typical match but with less gear equipped later on. They can't speed up if another one is also speeding the match as well.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/3/2015 9:57:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ That's not called speeding up the game, that's called quitting, getting fast credits/EXP through quitting. Everyone then will reach high ranks and high levels, without any effort, where is the fun in that?

Everyone then will be a legendary player through what? Losing? Quitting? sure as I mentioned before, game moderators rarely play pvp, because they already know it's broken, therefore botters will find nothing to stop them, and with this suggestion being added, it will get worse.

And everyone will be leveling up out of losing, which is unfair for many others, since losing now will be beneficial more than winning, why the heck should I crack my head, and stock credits to get weapons, and use cores and strategies. Lemme just lose till I reach a good level and then I will have had stock-piled a good amount of credits. The game looks good like that?

Why should I even win, for what? My win % doesn't show up anymore, then no problem, lemme just play the game out of losing and ranking/leveling up out of doing nothing, lunching a 1vs1 and going to check facebook, then coming back to get rewarded and do same thing, until I reach what another reached with hard work and time. Yeah, that seems good to me, or you know what Omega quitters brought that, back in the days, players actually played the game.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/3/2015 10:00:15 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 11
1/3/2015 10:19:58   
RageSoul
Member

^I use "speeders" as a term instead of botters because they make matches easier and faster. Although that is a good point , it is a choice . How would they not end up playing the game as "usual" if many of them ending up doing the same thing?

Since you involved fun in the mix , shouldn't some people get a bit happy even if the wins they get are cheap? Fun can be interpreted differently ; one's form of fun isn't the same as the other.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
1/3/2015 13:44:20   
Thylek Shran
Member

Power hours occur only 2 hours a day. This is 8% of a day and the
maximum bonus a botter would get when botting all day long.
So its a weak argument to say that this suggestion would benefit
and recruit botters. Botters was always here and never was a big
problem. To prevent players from "quit botting" all lossing rewards
would need to get removed.
DF Epic  Post #: 13
1/3/2015 13:54:22   
Lord Machaar
Member

@RageSoul: Fun's form might be different in life, not in a game.

You play the game to win, this is a universal form of having "Fun", if the minority is having fun because of losing, that won't affect the general rule.

I personally express my anger by posting here then looking for solutions, doing 2vs2, NPCs, Juggs.. etc... if everyone started playing the game like this, there will be no need for weapons or promos.

Just throw pvps, get rewarded, stock-pile credits and level up. When you reach rank 60 then play the game. I think this is wrong from every single prespective.

@Thylek Shran: You know that all ED players play in those two hours. Why would I bother and make a hard core build and strategy to try to win, and it will take me 10 turns to win. And I might lose after a long hard battle. Instead, I can just Bott, and I can get (not 3 times and 4 times) 5 times the credits and exp someone who actually play the pvp hard.

The idea is innocent from your prespective, because you will get those losses after a hard match.
Others will get those losses in 2 turns, having more credits than those who actually won the battle, and those who lost too many battles but after a hard match at the end of that hour and even the day.

I'm not supporting this not because I'm a mod or a tester, it will be beneficial to me, but it will be even more beneficial to players who abuse such things. And yes those two hours are all that matter in the whole ED day of PVPs, and now there is power weekend and power days..

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/3/2015 14:09:02 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 14
1/3/2015 15:05:11   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 if it doesn't count towards my boosts that I buy for var (like deteriorating with losses when it should deteriorate with wins) then I wont mind. Supported
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 15
1/3/2015 19:31:40   
RageSoul
Member

@Machaar

Well alright , winning = fun . Of course . I know that ,but like i said , it's still a choice . People will only do that if they're REALLY that desperate for Credits but let's say 80% of the players ( a crazy amount indeed ) do this. That means the 20% wins and if ever their matches end up in 2 turns and win , they get more than the speeder since there's now a higher chance for both speed in suiciders to meet together , and one of them has to win . And even without the bonus , little to few are only going to do this despite the fact that losses are hidden because wins > losses if majority would do this. Also , factoring "feelings" , the sadness they'll get is currently there if they want to win.

But the whole "promos are no longer needed" part , don't worry when this happens that issue won't happen because 1) see my statement above and 2) only Promos/Cores are worth getting . Any ordinary item was already rendered no value since release Omega.

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 1/3/2015 19:36:22 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
1/3/2015 19:48:56   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ So you are telling me here that the game, because of this, will turn into Botters Vs. Players.

Where botters lose in 2 turns and get credits, and players will get benefits also from this as they will win in 2 turns. And everyone is happy, titan is happy, and there will be unicorns farting rainbows and butterflies flying in the game. Sadly this isn't how it works, since botting is against the rules, any feature that will feed those botters will increase their number, even this will be beneficial when botters reach 50% of the players who do PVP and that won't happen, botters will get benefits from that for a long time. The game then will have no sense.

I might support this idea in one condition, and one condition only, when Mods start ACTUALLY playing the game at power hours, to monitor the game and ban players who throw fights. In that case only, this idea will be perfect, but implementing this idea in the current time will be a catastrophy.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/3/2015 19:50:12 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 17
1/3/2015 20:09:33   
RageSoul
Member

^Yep ,it will a mess alright . But what encourages speed suicide are basically the following :

* Legendary Ranks
* Item Prices
* NPC Win reward limit
* Low variety of builds

And fortunately , almost no one does this . Is it a reportable offense? Yes . But is it reasonable? Also yes.
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
1/3/2015 21:02:17   
Mother1
Member

@ ragesoul

Features that promote rule breaking ideas are never acceptable as it is spitting in the faces of every person who plays the game fairly. The people that lose still get rewards and the point of these rewards are to dust yourself off and try again so you can win.

Getting the same perks for losing as winning destroys the core part of this game.

@ Thyleck Shran

What about when we get power weekends? if this went into play every power weekend would become a botter's dream seeing as every fight for the next 2-3 days will give double rewards for every lost.
Epic  Post #: 19
1/3/2015 21:25:32   
RageSoul
Member

@Mother1

Well you can't really blame them , i mean even cosmetics are just as punishing as upgrading gear and buying Skill Cores . Then we have the ones who won't follow FoTM trends and end up losing a lot . So yeah , this idea just benefits the non-speeder as well , not just those actual speeders.

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 1/3/2015 21:26:37 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
1/3/2015 23:51:04   
The Jop
Member

You're talking about people breaking the rules, but what about players who play fairly and still lose? They get no extra benefit from power hours/weekends (especially bad for power hours since you can't fight too many battles in one hour). They're still getting lower rewards than the winners of matches, so I don't think there's anything wrong with doubling that as well. This was always a big problem with power hour for me; sure, I can get more credits and experience, but if I lose half the matches I lose out on a lot of bonus points which were the only things encouraging me to play at that time. I understand it's still a loss, so maybe you don't won't people benefiting from it, but they're playing fairly and shouldn't lose out on credits/experience just because they were unlucky or unskilled. Maybe it could be x1.5 instead of x2 during losses.

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
1/4/2015 8:52:28   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ Building a nuclear power plant will give you energy, yet it will kill you later with radiation.

This is just about it, it's unfair for players who lose the battles after a hard fight, and after this being added, it will be more unfair to them after someone else who lost the battle but in 2 turns without any effort, that's unfair also, no?

Solutions were never based on breaking rules. ED could've added many things to the game, but with feature abusers it turns into a catastrophy. You my friend have a short vision, don't look near your feet, but look to the horizon, what will come next. If it benefits you, it doesn't me it will be beneficial for all and for the rest of the time.
MQ Epic  Post #: 22
1/4/2015 14:29:34   
Thylek Shran
Member

@mother1
quote:

What about when we get power weekends? if this went into play every power weekend would become a botter's dream seeing as every fight for the next 2-3 days will give double rewards for every lost.

Even when the duel rewards for both winning and lossing would be 100x higher
than now this doesnt change the relations. During power hour everyone does
benefit not only (the few) botters.

The main reason for botting is to speed up the character evolution progress and
to prevent active NPC farming which can be boring. The reason why there are
botters in PVP is because NPCs are limited to 100 a day. So the best thing would
be to remove the rewards for lossing in PVP as it was done for NPCs long ago.
-> Quit botting problem solved. The remaining botters that use routines to win
PVP battles with looped moves would be identified and banned quickly.


To me there are only 2 logical and consequent ways to go:

Add double xp/credit rewards for lossing also to power hour (PVP quit botters remain)

OR

Remove all rewards for lossing a duel generally. (PVP quit botting makes no sense anymore if it was for the lossing rewards)


A third way would be to add something new so that rewards for lossing only get unlocked after some turns.



@Lord Machaar
quote:

@Thylek Shran: You know that all ED players play in those two hours.

Alot do but by far not all.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 1/4/2015 14:45:58 >
DF Epic  Post #: 23
1/4/2015 20:10:37   
RageSoul
Member

^Fourth one can be remove the NPC Win limit . There , NPCs will have a use once more . No point of death rushing for Credits in the longer run.

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 1/4/2015 20:44:41 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
1/5/2015 1:00:36   
Thylek Shran
Member

This very unlikely would happen. NPCing nearly got removed not that long ago.
But as it can compensate PVP rejects and broken balance the compromise was
to set a daily limit which I think is high enough.
DF Epic  Post #: 25
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