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12/24/2015 2:41:06   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I brought this issue up last year, that ranks are affecting first turn and everyone just said that I was wrong. I accepted it but
there seriously is something wrong. PLEASE LOOK INTO IT. No matter what, everytime my opponent has even remotely close
support to me, they tend to go first more than half of the time.

When I fight Focus 5, using a focus 5 build with 45+35 on support, I tend to go second the majority of the time. I even went
second a few times against strength builds with the minimum support to fulfill their firescythe requirement. And when I use
a support build, I tend to go second against everyone using support also whether my support is 20 points higher or 2 points
lower than theirs.

I just want someone to look into it. Thank you
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
12/24/2015 3:37:40   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Yes, ranks do affect the chances of going first. 10 ranks are treated as 1 eLevel for both Underdog and the First turn strike calculation.
Post #: 2
12/24/2015 8:09:47   
shadow.bane
Member

I think ghost god is right here , lower ranks/level got underdog mode , 1st turn is a privilege more to them too , e level from 1st strike should be removed .
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
12/24/2015 17:58:17   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Ok well now that that's situated, I was told in the beginning that not only do ranks not affect first turn but that they will not. And they absolutely should not, that's just not fair. At level 40 we're all the same level so by giving such a vital feature of this game to the underdog just because they are a lower rank you're just discriminating against high rankers and pushing them away.

Keep your underdog mode, I really don't care about arguing about whether or not its good for the game since the majority of forum users are low rankers/low levels who are abusing this mode and gaining an insane amount of credits and experience. However change this first turn thing, make it fair for the same level and keep the 5% bonus chance to go first for the LOWER LEVELS. Not the lower rankers.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
12/25/2015 15:00:10   
shadow.bane
Member

low rankers only speak about how good is underdog mode versus a high rank , well let me tell them something : when u become a high rank such as 60 + u will know what we were talking about and u will talk like us and change your thinking about underdog mode . those rank 1 -- > 40 are happy with underdog but when they become higher such us 50 + they will suffer :D
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
12/26/2015 12:12:11   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Doesnt help when the testers are low rankers too
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 6
12/26/2015 15:23:08   
Thylek Shran
Member

Ranks and levels should not affect the first turn calculation while Underdog mode is there.
Underdog mode can already affect first turn calculation when it does give a support bonus.
Especially high ranked support builds suffer from this at most.
DF Epic  Post #: 7
12/26/2015 16:05:35   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 My points exactly. I mean I used to feel sympathy for lower levels and understood why they had to go first. They barely could survive if they didnt. But now that underdog mode is here...they dont need the 1st turn handicap as much
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
12/27/2015 17:26:05   
Thylek Shran
Member

Yeah first turn is to powerfull to gift it for free to the lower ranked/level players.
If low ranks/levels are to much underpowered, Underdog could be buffed.
DF Epic  Post #: 9
12/27/2015 20:13:45   
Cookiesaregood
Member
 

 thylek u only agree with this because your high ranked and have a support build. You cannot support this because your build is flawed which is why you lose a lot. If you were perhaps winning and still have the same outlook then I could try to understand your reasoning but I dont support it
Post #: 10
12/28/2015 8:48:18   
shadow.bane
Member

@cookiesaregood first strike does matter to control the match it is a key hit ! my builds in 98 % flawless and I am a high rank and do suffer from 1st turn ! when a str abuse tm with 19 support start first while you have 46 + 13 support that's just unacceptable . cause it might give ur enemy the advantage and let you lose the control over the match . since they have underdog mode then why also first strike ?
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
12/28/2015 9:57:15   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Please disregard personal feelings and focus on game development.

And guys, lets be honest, lower leveled players SHOULD go first. Even with underdog mode a lvl 38 will have a very tough time vs a lvl 40 rank 60. But lower ranks SHOULD NOT automatically get a 1st turn advantage
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 12
12/28/2015 10:28:24   
Thylek Shran
Member

@Cookiesaregood

Mage support builds and the whole PVP balance are flawed altogether.
I also play other classes at different levels: BH, CH, TLM, Merc.


@berserker killer
quote:

And guys, lets be honest, lower leveled players SHOULD go first.

Now your contradicting yourself which does make your initial post pointless.
We have named the reasons why they should not have a double bonus to
go first. They do not go first automatically. Its a formula behind it which
does give the lower levels and ranks a very high chance to go first.

What is the point of levels and ranks at all ? It is to be more powerfull than
the lower levels and ranks. For fair matches there would not be levels and
ranks at all. Also no different classes and different combat items.
Everything would just be the same like in chess. The only difference would
be the first move. Regarding support builds they lower 3 of 4 stats to get
the bonus to go first among other thing. But this does get screwed by
the flawed first turn calculation which does grant lower levels and ranks a
bonus which is way to high.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 12/28/2015 10:48:59 >
DF Epic  Post #: 13
12/28/2015 11:53:33   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I mean yes I am contradicting myself in a sense but I have made myself clear in my second post...

quote:

At level 40 we're all the same level so by giving such a vital feature of this game to the underdog just because they are a lower rank you're just discriminating against high rankers and pushing them away..... make it fair for the same level and keep the 5% bonus chance to go first for the LOWER LEVELS. Not the lower rankers



So technically I am not contradicting myself in a way. My initial post was about the concern of RANKS affecting first turn. Not levels. I believe that levels should get that 5% bonus, even with underdog, however ranks should NOT get any bonus since we're all the same level.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 12/28/2015 11:55:06 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 14
12/28/2015 18:13:50   
Cookiesaregood
Member
 

 So your telling me not only do you have 50 more ranks than someone which is basically +3/4 for every weapon you want to go first aswell? Thats just being ridiculous

EDIT: Ranks dont make it fair and underdog doesnt make it as close to fair the first turn chance (Which is not even 100% btw) gives it an even playing field.

Posts merged, please don't double post. ~WhiteTiger

< Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 12/28/2015 18:21:36 >
Post #: 15
12/28/2015 19:00:58   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 No, I don't automatically expect to go first. I just want to eliminate the luck factors that's allowing them to go first since they already have underdog.

UnderDog doesn't make it fair? OK ALLOW ME TO SAY THIS: How many times have you won a match because of at least 0-200 health? How many times have you won a match off of a deflect, block, first turn or crit? Each and every one of those times, if not half of them, are because of underdog mode. I absolutely guarantee you. You don't think so? Allow me to break it down to you.......

+5 def or resistance will grant you at least 10 defense and 15 resistance AT MINIMUM. If someone attacks you with a p weapon 10 times, you just saved yourself 100 dmg. That's a FACT. If you win by 100 damage, you were saved by UNDERDOG MODE.

So when you win by 100 hp, even 200, even 300 maximum, KEEP THAT IN MIND. ANd don't ever say underdog mode isn't fair.


Sorry for the caps, just annoyed at that fact

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 12/28/2015 19:01:34 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 16
12/28/2015 20:34:39   
Foulman
Member

I think TBK means that lower LEVELED players should go first, and that LOWER RANKED ones shouldn't go first as much. And ranks make it unfair. The times I've left them with under 100 HP mean that even though my build and strategies are better, their ranks still save them. And you shouldn't forget that level 38s have worse equipment than level 40s, like less armour/weapon damage/stats in general.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 17
12/28/2015 21:26:17   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 That's exactly what I mean FoulMan. And yes that may be true but each and every player can achieve ranks. You only can lose underdog mode though I mean ive never even used that mode a day in my life.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
12/28/2015 23:31:28   
Thylek Shran
Member

It would be unfair for the higher leveled player if the lower level would go first all the time.
I think the best solution would be to remove the first turn bonus for lower levels and lower
ranks and to adjust the Underdog mode which could be done easily. It can be adjusted for
ranks and levels separately.

There is an unmentioned flaw with Underdog mode which are the xp and credit rewards.
They did not get adjusted with the implementation of the Underdog mode. For characters
with lower levels and ranks its now easier to win than in the past but the rewards for winning
remained the same. This has to be corrected maybe.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 12/28/2015 23:37:14 >
DF Epic  Post #: 19
12/29/2015 13:55:26   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

There is an unmentioned flaw with Underdog mode which are the xp and credit rewards.
They did not get adjusted with the implementation of the Underdog mode. For characters
with lower levels and ranks its now easier to win than in the past but the rewards for winning
remained the same. This has to be corrected maybe.


It has been already lowered.
quote:

Losing now grants slightly less experience and Credits than before.
Winning as an Underdog now grants slightly less experience and Credits per level difference than before.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21978825
MQ Epic  Post #: 20
12/30/2015 1:12:20   
Cookiesaregood
Member
 

 Not supported. So many obvious flaws to this
Post #: 21
1/1/2016 1:30:14   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Supported. Low rankers should have the same change of a high rank of being first.
I have tryed a merc build with 60+13+6+2 support (trying to be first and also get some skills benefits) but it doesnt work because all low ranks starts. It doesnt matter how many support they have, I keept being second. Rank 5 strength with 19+3 supp started first.
Why a high rank would spend some stats in support if one of the things u want it for doesnt work?
Another thing, in 2vs2 being support I had the last turn when 2 of the other players weren't support!
I dont care about being second if the opponent has more support, and I don't care neither when I dont start, and my opponent and I have almost the same support.

< Message edited by racing.lo.mas -- 1/1/2016 1:57:19 >
Epic  Post #: 22
1/1/2016 10:34:00   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 @cookies: There are "obvious" flaws with making first turn fair? In that case just say that it shouldn't be fair so I can understand what you're actually saying. Underdog already grants a boost to all luck factors, all skills, and all defenses to people of the same level. First turn just shouldn't be part of that equation.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
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