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Class weapons, what needs to be done

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12/20/2015 12:30:06   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Here's my proposition, Everyone please read this closely and carefully.

My proposition is one out of 3 things:

1) Proposition- Buff class weapons (club, daggers, staves) damage to 380.
Reason- The strength nerf basically decreased our strength stat by 20 points all around. Meaning that in the past, if you normally had 560 strength at a particular number, it is most likely at 540 now. I know this because of trying to bring back builds that I have created back then.
Benefits- The benefits of buffing class weapons damage to 380 is that it will increased build diversity, give more power to focus builds, and encourage players to use their class weapons as opposed to the average celtic cleaver.
Cons- Swords will lose their integrity in terms of damage, but they will maintain their integrity in terms of having more stats. Short term effect since it only raises damage. Increases build diversity but encourages strength builds.
Is this Logical: Yes, it is logical for anyone to feel more powerful and comfortable with their class weapons since it is their native weapon.

OR

2) Proposition- Buff class weapons (club, daggers, staves) stats to 32.
Reason- The only reason I have for this is because it's not only logical but it will allow class weapons to have an advantage, at least one advantage, over swords. The reason I chose 32 is because its just 4 more than swords and these 4 stats will serve almost as a "level up" since you get 4 stats per each level.
Benefits- The benefits of allowing class weapons to have more stats is that it will increase build diversity with the skill tree since skills on the skill tree increase with stats. This would open a new dimension of skills, a new dimension of damage output, and we should see players with more diverse gear.
Cons- Swords will lose their intergrity in terms of stats, but maintain it in terms of damage. This update will encourage more tank builds.
Is this Logical- Yes it is logical, at least more logical than raising the damage on class weapons. The reason for this is because you are supposed to be skilled in your class weapon, at least more skilled with your class weapon than a sword. Swords are meant to just slice and dice, hence why they have more damage.

OR

3] Proposition- Enhancements? Remove the cap of how many points you can put into a particular class weapon (club, daggers, staves)
Reason- One of the most successful and memorable features of ED was weapon enhancements and weapon diversity. By customizing your own weapons to have different stats there was something new nearly every day.
Benefits- The benefits of this feature, exactly as I have stated with NO P2W METHOD AVAILABLE, is that it will increase build diversity, increase the users engagement with his/her skill tree, improve build flexibility (a hybrid between blocking/deflections or crits/str, etc)
Cons- I can't really see any cons, to be honest. This feature, without the P2W method, seems to be flawless to me. Please offer a con if you can think of any.
Is this Logical- In a game sense? Yes, I do believe it is logical for the simple fact that a ton of games allow players to enhance their weapons in a certain way. With this feature you're NOT ACTUALLY ENHANCING YOUR WEAPON but, instead, you're bypassing the stat cap.

Or

A merge of any two of the above? Try it, and follow the format below


Proposition-
Reason-
Benefits-
Cons-
Is this Logical-


< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 12/20/2015 12:59:33 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
12/20/2015 12:42:19   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 B) will cause lots of balance problems. Imagine all 84 possible weapon stats going into STR or SUPP. Only blocks and deflections will stop them from running all over the metagame.

1 and 2 sound more reasonable, but why can't we simply have class weapons be strictly inferior to swords, with either damage or stats being equalised to swords? Class weapons aren't meant to optimise certain builds, they're meant to provide restrictions on the use of certain skills. This certainly isn't done well currently, but retaining class weapons as a tool for restriction allows for balance tweaks for certain builds if necessary. Restrictions can also encourage diversity by preventing one option from being strictly better than the rest. For instance, if BH didn't have class weapon restrictions on Venom Strike and TM on Plasma Bolt, every 5 focus build would run those two skills. As it is, the standard is using swords instead, with creative builds using class weapons to take advantage of those skills - in other words, there are now more builds than there would be if Venom Strike and Plasma Bolt had no downsides.
Post #: 2
12/20/2015 13:07:09   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Im sorry but I....think you have that backwards? Aren't swords "supposed to provide restrictions on the use of certain skills", not class weapons?

As far as why cant class weapons be inferior, in both ways, is because it's limiting the games progression along with diversity altogether. I'm not saying get rid of class weapon restrictions, that's a ludicrous idea altogether. My suggestion of buffing them would allow 5 focus builds to run the two skills you mentioned more effectively than they are running them now. This standard of using swords instead isn't doing anything besides discouraging the user from using his class weapon and engaging in the many features this game has to offer such as art, weapon design, and the freedom to choose while expanding on your diversity in an effective way.

So to answer your question "why cant we simply have class weapons be strictly inferior to swords", I can put it as simple as this: It's just boring. There's nothing exciting about class weapons and little to no reason to use them effectively since they are, just as you have stated, strictly inferior to swords.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
12/20/2015 19:08:53   
racing.lo.mas
Member

I support the idea of making class weapons a bit strong but now I understand the reason of Silver Sky Magician.
Another way to solve this is making a bit better the skills with a requirement, so using a class weapon will worth it.

< Message edited by racing.lo.mas -- 1/2/2016 19:02:21 >
Epic  Post #: 4
12/20/2015 21:04:48   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Well heres the problem with that: Those changes, changing each and every skill that uses a class weapon, take 6 months to a year to implement. The way I make suggestions is that I think of the quickest, cheapest, most effective way that will impact balance the least. When I am unsure of what to come up with I offer several solutions, as posted above, and let the community choose. If they veto them all, then so be it. I tried. And that's the most important thing.

The reason I do it like this instead of making suggestions like more cores, or change this skill and that skill, or rework each classes skill tree is because devs wont do it. No offence to anyone but ive heard all the excuses ranging from "flash limitations" to "it's too hard" to "it'll take 6 months to a year" (quote en quote). The suggestions I offer will be as effective, if not more effective than buffing each skill in only a fraction of the time
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
12/20/2015 21:33:26   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK
e
I actually brought up the issue of class weapons a while back and I have even made several threads about how class weapons are being indirectly nerfed into the ground thanks to the staff making more and more moves sword friendly.

@ SSM

Yes we all know swords are supposed to outclass primary weapons with power and stats however, there is supposed to be the drawback of having certain moves limited. Before the energy meta came along this wasn't an issue because there were moves that were actually important that had class weapon requirements which helped keep the sword/primary weapon thing in check.

However now as I pointed out so many moves have been changed to be sword friendly that were important that primary weapons area of shining has been outclassed.

Before they were inferior in power but still useful due to the drawback on swords. However now they are just inferior and have been outclassed in both areas due to this and the moves that are primary locked not being worth it to said classes.

Heck even TLM the only class that has a move critical to this meta would rather go without it and keep a sword rather than give up said power and stats for a club to be able to use it. Now if that doesn't tell you that primary weapons have completely fallen behind and need a buff then I don't know what to say.
Epic  Post #: 6
12/20/2015 23:26:01   
racing.lo.mas
Member

I know berserker killer, I also prefer buff the damage of class weapons. I made a big post about that, where the main idea was that and giving more stats to swords.
But Silver Sky Magician is right, class weapons are supossed to be a bit weak because they let you use some strong skills.
The problem is that most usseful skills dont need a class weapon. A BH dont need cheap shot for a build, but it needs mark of blood and static.
With static grenade, mark of blood and smoke, with them this class can use strength and focus. Also have multy and stun that can be used with sword.
And this happens with the rest of classes.
Epic  Post #: 7
1/2/2016 13:23:15   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Thanks for the support guys. Its time to realize that this game cant evolve with class weapons being so underpowered. I mean we wont really see diversity or be able to fully enjoy the features of this game as long as class weapons are so inferior. A buff is needed, absolutely need for class weapons and I can not stress that enough

Sure, they are supposed to be a bit weak but the fact remains theyre not a "bit" weak. Theyre practically useless and, if I may, contradictory in most classes. I mean, for example, why would a merc use a club, which does less primary damage, if the majority of his skills increase with strength?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
1/2/2016 19:10:12   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Silver Sky Magician just read your answer. And why we should make class weapons strongers? Because looks like its the only way to make them back.
See this, I try to use club with mercenary and go strength but its too weak. I had 59+33 with club, damage was 544-577 then to compare it, I put a sword and the damage was 557-591. its a good difference between both, and if you want to have this damage with your class weapon you have to lose a LOT more of stats. That's the reason why those weapons are so weak, at least for strength, but guess what, most of skills with a weapon requeriment are for strength builds lol.
Epic  Post #: 9
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