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=ED= Patch Notes - 1.6.67 - December 1st, 2016 - Balance

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12/1/2016 14:33:56   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins
quote:



December 01, 2016
Patch Notes - 1.6.67
Balance
  • Dev note: A lot, but not all, of these individual changes are targeted at a few main goals - 1) Buff Mercenary, 2) Nerf current Bounty Hunter while giving them other build options, 3) Lower the effect of energy gain skills, 4) address level disparity issues in 2v2 and Juggernaut. We’ll be listening to your feedback and plan to do a followup patch in a few weeks if necessary.
  • Underdog
    • Now applies to 2v2 matches. Underdogs receive a buff that increases in power for each level they are below the average of the other team. Note that each 10 Legendary levels count as a normal level for Underdog calculations, just as they do in 1v1 matches. Players on both teams may receive an Underdog buff depending on matchups.
    • Also used in Juggernaut matches. Underdogs receive a buff that tries to get them to 5 levels under the Juggernaut’s level. We’ll keep an eye on this and do adjustments in December if necessary.

  • Juggernaut
    • Juggernauts now receive a passive buff granting them a 20% buff to their base Strength, Dexterity, Technology, and Support.

  • Energy
    • All classes now gain 1.5 Energy per level, down from 2

  • Static Smash
    • Energy gain increased from 75% to 100% of energy drained.

  • Blood Commander
    • Lifesteal increased from 60% to 75% of Strength gained

  • Bunker Buster
    • Damage increased by 10

  • Mark of Blood
    • Lifesteal lowered by 3%

  • Static Grenade
    • Energy gain lowered from 65% to 60%

  • Massacre
    • Energy required lowered by 20

  • Shadow Arts
    • Energy required lowered by 10

  • Energy Parasite
    • Support requirement lowered by 1 per level
    • Energy gain lowered from 150% to 140% of energy drained

  • Plasma Cannon
    • Resistance ignore increased from 10% to 15%

  • Fireball
    • Defense/Resist debuff increased from 5% to 10%

  • Plasma Bolt
    • Scaling increased from +1 damage per 0.4 Tech to 0.35 (More damage per Technology)

  • Battery Backup
    • Energy gain lowered by 10

  • Multishot, Plasma Rain, Artillery Strike
    • Cooldown increased from 2 to 3 turns


Bug Fixes
  • Fixed problem where switching faction alignment could charge incorrect Varium amount


Tags: RabbleFroth


To discuss the general changes in this update, click here.

< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 12/1/2016 14:35:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
12/1/2016 16:48:40   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Darn, was hoping for a few more "big" changes. The cooldown shift on multi skills is one of them, but I was hoping some skills like fireball really get a huge buff to what makes that skill unique (the debuff part). Fine tuning is all nice and dandy, but I was really anticipating some sort of big, revolutionary changes which would spark entirely new archetypes of builds.
Epic  Post #: 2
12/1/2016 19:36:34   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

I was hoping for a good balance change. And cores that you could take out of weapons. and a class specific weapon buff. and strength buff. Listen to the players that know how to play the game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
12/1/2016 19:48:21   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Looks like quite a few of my suggestions were implemented! The devs did make it clear that big changes were unlikely, and I think this is a promising step in the right direction, so let's just monitor how the meta responds first. The devs have committed to a follow-up patch to address lingering problems, and providing useful information for that should be our priority. Let's give them some encouragement and love - we don't want to scare them away from ED right after our first real release this year.
Post #: 4
12/1/2016 22:08:33   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Silver the problem is that the cores are seasonal so we won't know the full impact of the main change of unbinding the cores won't be known until this time next year when we've had ample time to try everything
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
12/1/2016 22:53:30   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Yes, they implemented Sky's and Xendran's suggestions. Now they should listen to players who actually actively play the game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
12/2/2016 6:47:15   
Stonehawk
Member

Strength should be buffed after rank changes the way it works, because the extra 30 points on primary damage is the main reason strength was nerfed. Make it equal or similar to aux damage on support, for example:

Currently:
45 support at lvl 40 => 490-508
45 strength at lvl 40 => 450-468 (-10 if class specific weapon)

Make it:
45 support => 480-498 or 490-508 (nerf -10 or keep it same)
45 strength => 480-498 or 470-488 (buff it +30 or +20) (class specific weapon would be 470-498 or 460-478)

Not a big change, but after removing ranks auxilliary damage will not have such high advantage and primary damage will be enough since defense buffs from ranks will be gone too.

But this should only happen only after fixing rank problems (make it not affect PvP) or strength will be OP again (I guess. Can't be sure 'cause I'm not a tester, lol).
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
12/2/2016 19:49:41   
Noobatron x3000
Member

They needed to actually fix ranks not pretend to my biggest gripe with this release.

10 ranks = 30 primary damage - is the equivalent of atleast 10 stat points up to a possible 30 stat points with diminishing returns so 10 ranks should not be equated to 1 level , 10 ranks should be equated to 2.5 levels - 7.5 levels , So as you can see underdog isn't doing enough the ranked player still has a unfair advantage ..... Underdog should be buffed further against ranks, Thanks for making the case for me.

Or just remove the ranks pvp advantage.

Can't argue with the math

No doubt you will try though .

That's right folks for anyone who hasnt already figured it out.....

every rank is worth 1-3 stat points depending on diminishing returns , You can quite easily exploit the rank system to get two of your ranks buffing diminishing returns , giving the rank user a 60 stat point advantage on primary damage and defense for instance and 10 stat points on everything else, So potentially best case scenario even with the current balance "fixes" you can be facing someone mathematically 20 levels higher then you and it can easily go far beyond that , Seems legit right?
Post #: 8
12/2/2016 22:33:11   
santonik
Member

quote:

every rank is worth 1-3 stat points depending on diminishing returns , You can quite easily exploit the rank system to get two of your ranks buffing diminishing returns , giving the rank user a 60 stat point advantage on primary damage and defense for instance and 10 stat points on everything else, So potentially best case scenario even with the current balance "fixes" you can be facing someone mathematically 20 levels higher then you and it can easily go far beyond that , Seems legit right?

I noticed this over year ago. still gamemakers want favor high rank players. Well i noticed high rank players all pretty solid tanks. all of them.


(General)

Dont forgot they have very easy access to energy controll too.
This is key factor. gamemakers dont like nerf those overstrong skilltree skills (energy) or make counter against parasite. parasite alone kill high energy players. (thank to % damage) Endless heal looping kill almoust all low/med rank players.
I have give many suggestion and some other players too. How we can nerf over strong high rank players. Mostly energy access and healing. dont forgot this. there is 5 focus classess what dont need uppgrade own shield. Because it is already 1 lvl and it give 150~200 defence.
I call it broken skills. those cost too low sum energy per defence. same thing i can say medic heal is broken. at least high rank players using this balance hole. 1 lvl medic heal give 408 hp. cost only 150. This is too cheap to using now. it need cost at least 200 energy and need at least
1~2 cooldown more. This stop those endless heal looping.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High rank players is too much benefit/s now. Specially RANKs making it. High player dont want using energy in attack. Because defencive gameplaying give better win ratio. against all. Specially against lower rank players.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont forgot nerf that eternal protection. Nerf it like this . 15 defence to 8~10 defence. Today version give too much defences. High rank players using this balance hole. And i can say this. It give alone massive boost in stats. (defence)
Epic  Post #: 9
12/3/2016 9:32:40   
Stonehawk
Member

@santonik
You are wrong. You want to change things that disturbs you without thinking of other impacts it would cause.
1- Ranks aren't equal to stats. Ranks only increase damage or defense directly, while stats increase skills related to it, % chance to block/hit/deflect/crit, depending on which stat we're talking about.
2- Increasing healing to 200 energy and increasing cooldown? It would not only prevent healing loop but also making it impossible to beat some NPC bosses.
3- Nerf eternal protection? Did you know health/energy x10 update? Just to remember you that you are somehow asking to nerf a skill core that gives 1,5 defense and resistance and which is REALLY hard to get.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
12/3/2016 10:39:57   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Ranks are broken they cant balance them its been proven , I went into detail on my last post i'm not going to again, Enough to say they couldn't balance matchmaking with 36 levels and 1500 players logging in, You would quite often get a 36 and a 31 vs a 2 36s . How an earth do they stand a chance of balancing 40 levels and 100 ranks with 300 players max usually.

Nevermind the thousand other reasons ranks with a pvp advantage are broken....That reason alone should of seen them never entering the game, And should see the pvp advantage removed ASAP.

Especially if they want to see new players start playing again rather then keeping a small % of the 100-300 players here happy that love ranks.

Worth noting stonehawk is highish ranked so his opinion is somewhat clouded.... By personal bias rather then the greater good.... Yes we run the risk of losing a few high ranked players.... But before gifting the population has been flat lining at 100-300 for MONTHS , we need new players not the old ones, Take the risk ED TAKE IT!. You have nothing to lose, The games dead anyway if you have another 12 months at 100-300 players like the last 12....
Post #: 11
12/3/2016 11:12:30   
Stonehawk
Member

@Noobatron

I have a disadvantage against rank 60. I have an advantage against lower ranks. Rank 300 have a disadvantage against rank 60.
Conclusion: Rank is a mess.

I don't care if I'm high ranked or not. My opinion about rank is simple:
- Keep people's rank instead of removing it
- Remove PvP advantage for ranks (all those extra stats/defense buffs we got) and add another kind of privilege for high rank instead.
- The unlocked slots are reseted and the number of slots we unlocked are available to unlock the new rank's privilege for free (solution to make us not lose the money used for unlocking them)
Example: I've unlocked 30 legendary slots, so I will have free 30 points to unlock them after ranks are revamped

After this, underdog can be removed against ranks difference, which is messing balance on lvl 40. I won't talk about the other lvls because I don't use my alts for a long time so I don't know how's balance working there.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
12/3/2016 11:18:08   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Okay misinterpreted your response.....

Your talking about Keeping ranks but removing the pvp advantage

I can get onboard with that.
Post #: 13
12/3/2016 16:16:47   
Gold Shock
Member

1.6.67 From a Rank 52 Mercenary Perspective

The recent update was prioritized over mercenary's for a better stride in balance.

BH is STILL making the game unbalanced. Massacre+Support builds is the culprit of being OP. Intimidate doesn't even affect massacre that much since it usually runs out when they use massacre. Weakening Massacre will hurt CH since they use this as well. A cyber massacre build is FAR more balanced at this point.

This is how a current match against BH Massacre plays out:
They Poison>You Heal>Static Charge>You Static Smash>They use another form of energy steal (Piston punch?)> You are literally left with no energy, at least -100> And to top it off they have a nice frost to still use! Lovely!!! By the time they use Blood Hawk to steal your armor, you don't have enough energy to hybrid.

The BH synergy with massacre is the problem. After massacre is used it's usually game over for anyone there fighting so you have to try and end it before that turn ( turn 3-4 or w/e ). Look at TLM and Merc, they don't have a dex/tech debuff. Massacre then rage is just too strong.

So are they unbeatable from a mercenary perspective? Short answer, no. The absurd build you need to use is 900+ Hp with at least 850 energy with a 7-max SS. Problem with this is ENERGY was just nerfed & this flips the table making you lose to virtually every other classes builds. Blood mages will have a field day with that amount of energy.

-Mercenary adrenaline skill, this really needs to be reworked or replaced with a new skill. This should cost no energy cosidering it is 85%.
-Bunker is fine.
-Static is fine.
-Bc is fine


< Message edited by Gold Shock -- 12/3/2016 17:22:20 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
12/3/2016 16:24:44   
Stonehawk
Member

Just make adrenaline do 100% damage, guys. What's the point of using energy to increase rage with a weaker attack? Rage increases damage and adrenaline decreases damage. Doh?

Strength is already badly nerfed, no need to make most of the "hit+effect skills" (Adrenaline, Static Charge, assimilation and even some skill-cores) hit only 85% damage.

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 12/3/2016 16:31:47 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
12/3/2016 22:24:05   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Buffing the 85% skills actually ends up helping focus builds an enormous amount. Even on strength builds, most of the strike damage comes from the weapon's base damage. While it will make strength builds better to change that 85% to 100% enormously, it will help focus builds a ton as well, barely changing the problem.

Actual ratios need to be given to strength as a stat instead of the ratios being attributed to total strike damage on most skills if you want to buff exclusively strength.
Epic  Post #: 16
12/5/2016 17:14:13   
Stonehawk
Member

@Exploding Penguin

I am saying that if the strength is already nerfed, those skills shouldn't be hitting 85% but if they decide to buff strength again i guess it coupd stay as it is. Problem is that those skills are a 30 damage for sure. Even str builds do 30 damage and if str is too high all you need is a shield and the opponent can do nothing but hit shield till rage. i do not like how str works now and those drawbacks on some skills makes it even worse.

now tell me do you think it makes sense to use a weaker attack that costs energy to rage faster?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
12/5/2016 17:33:05   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 It's really dependent on how rage calculation formulas work for the game. Raging faster actually benefits caster builds and other similar ones a lot more than strength builds as well, or at least in this context. If you're hitting barely over 60-70 damage or something like that on your attacks as a focus build against someone who's really tanky, then gaining a huge chunk of rage to punch through that tankiness is possibly worth it since you're sacrificing 30-40 damage for essentially how much rage you got in bonus damage.

Using very abstract numbers, let's say my rage attack gives me an extra 180 damage against the target normally. Suppose I normally hit 60 on my basic attacks, and adrenaline rush at max level is about 70% more max rage with 40 support. With the 85% damage effect, my strikes will hit 30 instead of 60, so I'm losing 30 damage and 190 energy for 70% rage. 70% of 180 is 126, so there's a net gain of 96 damage. On a support build, the gains are obviously going to be a lot more since strikes might be hitting even less and you're more dependent on your burst, especially with your multi in 2v2.

On speculation off of that example, you're right; adrenaline rush is an AWFUL skill. It doesn't give enough value for its cost in almost all situations, and I didn't even mention the part where a maxed out adrenaline rush requires 10 skill points too. And I was using one of the better-case scenarios.

You sound like you think that adrenaline rush is meant to be for strength builds when it absolutely isn't, at least looking at the way the skill is now. I don't know the dev's intention when creating the skill but from looking at it now it's optimal on builds with high support and low strike damage anyways, so the 85% doesn't matter as much. IMO if you want it to be more catered to strength, it would be possible, but I don't know if that's what the game really needs right now and honestly strength as a stat should get entirely changed since it's either going to dominate or be useless, as we've seen from past balance changes and the current state of the game. Just boosting it back up to a 100% is kinda a band-aid fix in my eyes which diverts from the real problem of strength being fundamentally flawed, but that's my opinion.
Epic  Post #: 18
12/5/2016 17:59:56   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Or they could actually balance a stat for once, To be fair that's a little unreasonable, I will rephrase they should be able to get things closer to balanced. It seems over and over they over buff something then over nerf it , Not by a small degree you could forgive that. But massively , And this is happening over and over... I still think the best solution is hire someone fully qualified on balance to the ED staff, IF you can't afford them cut NW's and titans and charfades hours to cover the cost.... Or cut their wages odds are your paying them to much for the quality of the work.

Funny thing is I've been typing this and i can literally imagine titan reading having to open Wikipedia for a definition what balance is, Pretty sure he has no idea. No one involved in ED decision making for well ever has , Or 95% of the stuff added would of never got in game....

95% is pretty generous as well pretty much every update from beta has left a broken element in game, Usually a major one , P2w, enhancements, Ridiculously broken class / skill balancement, Juggernaut opponents getting slaughtered, Juggernauts getting slaughtered. Ranks , I cant remember a point where the game wasn;t majorly broken..... And while refusing to fix problems already there they just created more if anything all the time....

And now balance updates like this one where there was no balance update , multi cooldown - Wasnt the issue, underdog in 2v2 and juggernaut - Legend ranks are still way to powerful and broken , Infernal android - lol......My IA build is more effective now..... They might be forgiven but the joke of it is this is their first serious update in 2016..... And it's a joke....

Just smells like a cash grab to me , And they'll be gone again for another year after this, Assuming the games still here.

< Message edited by Noobatron x3000 -- 12/5/2016 18:09:31 >
Post #: 19
12/6/2016 17:16:31   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

Or they could actually balance a stat for once, To be fair that's a little unreasonable, I will rephrase they should be able to get things closer to balanced. It seems over and over they over buff something then over nerf it , Not by a small degree you could forgive that. But massively , And this is happening over and over... I still think the best solution is hire someone fully qualified on balance to the ED staff, IF you can't afford them cut NW's and titans and charfades hours to cover the cost.... Or cut their wages odds are your paying them to much for the quality of the work.

Funny thing is I've been typing this and i can literally imagine titan reading having to open Wikipedia for a definition what balance is, Pretty sure he has no idea. No one involved in ED decision making for well ever has , Or 95% of the stuff added would of never got in game....

95% is pretty generous as well pretty much every update from beta has left a broken element in game, Usually a major one , P2w, enhancements, Ridiculously broken class / skill balancement, Juggernaut opponents getting slaughtered, Juggernauts getting slaughtered. Ranks , I cant remember a point where the game wasn;t majorly broken..... And while refusing to fix problems already there they just created more if anything all the time....

And now balance updates like this one where there was no balance update , multi cooldown - Wasnt the issue, underdog in 2v2 and juggernaut - Legend ranks are still way to powerful and broken , Infernal android - lol......My IA build is more effective now..... They might be forgiven but the joke of it is this is their first serious update in 2016..... And it's a joke....

Just smells like a cash grab to me , And they'll be gone again for another year after this, Assuming the games still here.


I just returned after literally not even loading epicduel.com over 8 months because I saw an actual release (An extensive-looking balance change). But I got to say, I was utterly disappointed. Your comment captures my frustrations exactly.
"OH WOW THEY RELEASED THE CORES!!" oh....Varium only. Of course.

And this gifting event is one of my primary problems with Epicduel outside of balance. Due to the event credit prices have inflated DRAMATICLY. Like seriously, the only way for a free player to even play is by gathering their yearly credit income during the gifting event.

It seems like everytime i try to play i get utterly disappointed.
Post #: 20
12/8/2016 14:15:36   
c1729
Member

I haven't really played EpicDuel for quite some time (almost half a year), fortunately there haven't been any updates in between, so my experience should suffice. I started again in late November when I got more time on my hands.

My thoughts,

I started fresh in early 2016 after leaving at the start of Delta owing to personal reasons. I made an account as a BH (my first class), the low level Dex-Build worked reasonably well. Considering the current buff to Merc, I think the low level field should be relatively well balanced (I made an alt TM which ran a support build and it had a very similar win rate). My suggestion would be to have at least one energy move unlock at level 2 for all classes and move the other to level 10, usually classes which don't have a second energy move have a HP move so that can be included in this category.

In the mid levels (10 to 30), most of these trends continue, Str TM becomes workable and in the late portion of this, support bounty becomes barely viable. I didn't see much of Mercs, but I think the current update will be a huge boost.
Jugger is very broken at this part, with the Juggernaut easily able to pull win rates above 95%. I already saw this being suggested, and I think it is on the right track to raise the entry level for Jugger (Why not just make it 40? Great Reward for hitting the level cap.)

In the later levels (30 to 39), support BH works very well, however on experimenting with various builds as a BH, I discovered that Static and Poison by themselves are very balanced moves (relative to other energy/damage moves in the meta, especially with the merc buff, even more so), the real problem is Massacre, it's damage scales too fast and simply is not on par with the other final moves. I would suggest remodeling the damage and energy costs of all the final moves considering that they were made in a time before the current energy meta hit.
Most importantly, do not let level 38 and 39 players face off against Players with a Rank of 10+. This leads to very disproportionate battles and eventually forcing players to either 2v2, npc or quit.

As for Level 40, I'm only rank 7 so far, I find high ranks a bit on the tough side to beat, but that is besides the point, the real issue I have is that underdog influences first turn chance, wildly discouraging support builds at higher ranks. I suggest taking a fresh look at underdog, possibly splitting into two versions, one for under level 40, and one for level 40 that provide different kinds of buffs; like say stat boost for levels under 40, and Res/Def/Damage bonus at level 40, both not affecting first turn chance.

Some of the rank benefits are utterly useless unless using a certain build (Maybe restrict battles to holding only 50 ranks instead of the full 80?)

I've been a TLM and CH at Level 40 and didn't really like the sudden drop in change in pace of the game just for a slightly higher win rate (70%+ with the right build with the right robot). I've observed enough of TM and BM to understand their balance reasonably, even made a couple of builds for those classes for my buddies which work pretty well. I have no knowledge whatsoever regarding Mercs, so, a bit of a biased opinion which may be a bit irrelevant, but I think Blood Commander is a bit too much especially with the Static Smash buff.

When I first started playing this game (first day of AE acquisition) it felt really beautiful, I still see some of that and it is what has led me to play for so long.

< Message edited by c1729 -- 12/8/2016 15:08:25 >

_____________________________

~ Enrich Ilthens
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
12/10/2016 2:53:37   
zer00x
Member

Anyone else noticing that some tech mages that abuse support get rage at their second turn and the rage bar under the hp bar isn't full?

For example, someone stunned me on his first turn and the proceeded to rage me with the zooka, i didn't stand a chance!, i am also abusing support but i'm not getting rage at second turn, are they cheating?, it is a glitch?, could someone explain?

Also... Someone was able to block my attack while he was stunned! how is that possible!?

< Message edited by zer00x -- 12/10/2016 6:13:39 >
AQW  Post #: 22
12/10/2016 6:30:02   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ Was your opponent using any of these auxilliaries: Frozen Fury Annihilator E or P?

Due to gifting, you will find many low level accounts have these type of promo weapons. The active core of these auxs (Hair Trigger), allows you to use your rage at any given moment for 100 energy. (As long as your rage bar is > 1%).

@Enrich (c1729):
quote:

My suggestion would be to have at least one energy move unlock at level 2 for all classes and move the other to level 10, usually classes which don't have a second energy move have a HP move so that can be included in this category.

That's a good point brought up here. Some classes have early access to their energy skills, while some don't. For example Bounty Hunters can spend their very first skill point on Static Grenade, while mercenaries have to go through all their skill tree to reach Static Smash. I guess that's the reason why mercenaries are almost nonexistent in low level ranges.
MQ Epic  Post #: 23
12/10/2016 6:57:30   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 ^

To add on: your opponent doesn't even need those auxiliaries to use the Hair Trigger core. The core is seasonally available for purchase at Edgar Boothe at a limited quantity; in other words, any aux could theoretically have Hair Trigger.

Stun no longer affects block/deflect chance.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 12/10/2016 6:58:10 >
Post #: 24
12/10/2016 8:44:26   
zer00x
Member

So even if someone is stunned they are able to block?, i knew that they were able to defl, but block?, that makes no sense in my opinion, but oh well, i will keep struggling as a poor merc that doesnt have many cores
AQW  Post #: 25
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