=DF= July 2nd Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Unending Empires


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7/2/2021 23:51:12

Peachii
Clairvoyant!

quote:

Verlyrus:
Arena at the Edge of Time: Unending Empires

Hey there, heroes!

For this month's Inn at the Edge of Time challenge, we return once more to the Lost Fables board!

What awaits are are two of Lore's... longer lived denizens. A familiar looking Sek-Duat, ruler of the Sandsea, and Noxus in his prime, poised to wrest control of the Necropolis!

There are a few new mechanics to learn in this week's release, and we look forward to hearing what you have to think about them!

Defeat them both to earn a new belt and Ranger customization option! (Speaking of Ranger customization options, Dracelix is working on color custom Ranger... for the future!)

If you're up for dodging some arrows, head over to the Inn at the Edge of Time to face the rulers of the Unending Empires!

Also this week, the Unity and North Weapons have returned to the Book of Lore!

The Pride Wings and Capes shop has been moved into the Shops tab of the Book of Lore.

Also some bug fixes!
Fixed a bug where attacks that weakness seek would not play the correct sound.

Fixed a bug where attacks that weakness seak only looked for equipped resistances.

Fixed a bug where effects that checked All resistance would use double the correct value.

Fixed a bug where the new healing pad at the top of the Sneevil Treefort was nonfunctional.

Fixed a bug where obtaining an item when only one item is in the inventory would display it in the wrong place in the inventory list until reload.

Dove has adjusted Ranger's neck to be a little less lengthy.

Finally, I'm going on vacation for two weeks! I hope everyone enjoys what Dove & our awesome writers have in store for you!

And that's all for this week! Having trouble with any fights? Have feedback about recent releases? Have any crazy theories or ideas? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

Join the discussion on the official forums!

Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser?

Check out the Artix Games Launcher!

Follow us on Twitter for sneak peeks and updates (and feel free to tweet us your fan art and feedback too!)

Verlyrus Twitter

Tomix Twitter

Tags: Verlyrus

AQW

Post #: 1

7/3/2021 2:07:20

Kurtz96
Member

These challenges are interesting. The 2 monsters able to be stunned once means you have to strategize and make your stun count. Sket Duat's position changing gimmick wasn't too interesting to me. Just move to the unmarked space. Nothing is stopping you from doing that.

Used the one stun to set up a big nuke. I used DmK V2 and Favor + Inner Darkness + plus Dragon Scout + overcharge to nuke them.

Haven't tried the duo yet. I would theorize kill Sekt Duat first.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 7/3/2021 2:20:36 >

Post #: 2

7/3/2021 8:02:29

Dratomos
Helpful!

What an interesting mechanic Sek-Duat's fight had. Instead of having time to think for a while and change our equipment, he forces us to literally move and quickly. This and Vaal's health reduction are mechanics that make these fights a bit more dynamic and interesting. As a final part for Lost Fables, this certainly didn't disappoint. Seeing Sek-Duat and Noxus in their prime was neat and the new belt is great. As is the new customization option for Ranger.

As for fighting the duo, I would advise taking out Noxus first. After you figure out Sek-Duat's moves, he is not as big of a threat as Noxus.

AQW

Post #: 3

7/3/2021 11:18:01

Baron Dante
Member

quote:

These challenges are interesting. The 2 monsters able to be stunned once means you have to strategize and make your stun count. Sket Duat's position changing gimmick wasn't too interesting to me. Just move to the unmarked space. Nothing is stopping you from doing that.

He eventually stops showing you the spaces though. The idea is that at the start of the fight, he shows you where the spots are so you can figure out which pop-up corresponds to which spots.

I think the gimmick is actually pretty good, and as I understand it, this might be something that becomes a more common thing. I guess it does come with one issue, and that is that if you need to spend time teaching the player how it works like here, the boss needs to take a decent amount of punishment without just keeling over. Sek is kind of annoying in that regard, given that he has a really big uptime on the shield. But it's also kind of necessary.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 4

7/3/2021 14:44:09

LigerBeard
Member

While I love the mechanic of moving from the spots where the arrows land, I must mention one personal qualm I have with it.

As a man who hates being rushed, the timer in the Sek Duat fight makes it much more stressful for me.

Keep in mind I have no idea who else this applies to, do this is mainly me stating that the timer stresses me out.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 5

7/3/2021 16:19:26

Kurtz96
Member

quote:

As a man who hates being rushed, the timer in the Sek Duat fight makes it much more stressful for me.

It not just you. The timer stresses me out too. Especially when trying to understand the mechanics and how to play around them.

Post #: 6

7/3/2021 17:10:24

Plendamonda2
Member

I thought the timer was pretty fun actually, adding an interesting sense of urgency and haste in trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing and where I should move.
That effect kind of wore off though after I figured out the mechanics and realized the timer is just for being able to move.
I'd totally be open to a timer that forces you to actually select a skill before times up too, if it's possible in future releases.

And new mechanics are always great, the more potential depth to the game the better. Interesting to think about how the positioning spaces might be used in the future.

I really enjoy seeing and learning the depth of these boss mechanics too, Noxus is really neat here.
Didn't even realize he had the overconfident/ego thing when I fought him solo, and then suddenly he was doing a bunch of damage the first time I tried the duo, lol

AQW

Epic

Post #: 7

7/3/2021 21:16:46

Kurtz96
Member

quote:

I'd totally be open to a timer that forces you to actually select a skill before times up too, if it's possible in future releases.

I don't think this is a good idea for 2 reasons.
One is it encourages button mashing, when bosses have complex mechanics you want time to strategize, check your buffs/nerfs, check the monsters buffs/nerfs, change equipment, and plan out your rotations.
Two it punishes people for things outside their control. You might have to step away from your computer for a moment for any number of reasons and oops you have now lost this run.

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 7/3/2021 21:18:44 >

Post #: 8

7/3/2021 21:39:17

DragonKeeper
Member

quote:

As a man who hates being rushed, the timer in the Sek Duat fight makes it much more stressful for me.

Keep in mind I have no idea who else this applies to, do this is mainly me stating that the timer stresses me out.

Yes, I also am having trouble with the Sek Duat challenge and other challenges. I am a slow thinker and when several things happen at once it becomes difficult for me. I wish there were more options to choose from besides a single type of strategy in order to win these valuable prizes.

Post #: 9

7/4/2021 0:35:13

Plendamonda2
Member

quote:

One is it encourages button mashing, when bosses have complex mechanics you want time to strategize, check your buffs/nerfs, check the monsters buffs/nerfs, change equipment, and plan out your rotations.
Two it punishes people for things outside their control. You might have to step away from your computer for a moment for any number of reasons and oops you have now lost this run.

I mean.. I don't think the Timer is *that* strict, IMO there's plenty time to get an idea of what's happening, glance at the effects on the enemy, and choose a skill. And I'd assume the timer length could be adjusted anyways.
I kind of enjoyed that sense of urgency to try and pay attention to what the enemy is doing and figure it out on the fly. It's not like there's any real punishment for failure either, so you get plenty of attempts to figure it out and retry.
And then you still get manual pet turns to stop and take stock of all the status conditions on either side, sure you can't change equipment but often times I find changing equipment is more gimmicky than an intended strategy anyway.

Besides - for me anyway - that sort of rushed/stressed feeling you get not quite having enough time to know for sure what's the perfect move and you're going with what you can notice and figure out... I think that could be really fun.

And for point two... you could just not play these specific hypothetical fights when you might be busy - it's no different from the zillion other games in the world that have some sort of timed/online component that you can't pause?
Again, it's not like there's a real punishment for failure other than time investment and dedication, which is part of the whole thing with being an Inn challenge anyway. Finding how to beat the boss and attempting until you succeed.
*And* it's not like I'm suggesting it would apply across the whole game - but for a specific challenge or two that would be interesting. There are already mini-games in DF that work in real time too, it's really a non-issue IMO

Frankly I think a {theoretical} timed component would just add another layer of complexity and skill expression to the game. The same as literally every other game that relies on quick thinking, reflexes, planning, etc. etc. etc.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 10

7/4/2021 2:43:19

Kurtz96
Member

quote:

And for point two... you could just not play these specific hypothetical fights when you might be busy - it's no different from the zillion other games in the world that have some sort of timed/online component that you can't pause?

My comment specifically said "events outside their control". Obviously I am not playing during work or a medical emergency, but there are plenty of events that might take you out of the game for an moment. And personally I don't enjoy having to redo fights when I was winning.

Here is my issue with a timer: it doesn't do anything. Either it is:
1. too short to let you examine what you and your opponents are affected by/read guides/gear swap (a perfectly valid strategy in combat.) in which case you die immediately or are put into a disadvantageous position that leads to you losing.
2. it is long enough to let you do all the prep you need in which case the timer becomes pointless.
All it does is punish people who in my point above have to step away for a moment.

quote:

Frankly I think a {theoretical} timed component would just add another layer of complexity and skill expression to the game. The same as literally every other game that relies on quick thinking, reflexes, planning, etc. etc. etc.

Ultimately DF is just not a game that lends itself to this. It is a turn based game at its core. If I wanted to test my reflexes and reactions I would just play an FPS.

Post #: 11

7/4/2021 3:29:41

AstralCodex
Member

I thought this fight was pretty cool - not too difficult (you can eat a few Sek Duat arrows and still prevail), but it uses some cool new mechanics. And a 10 all belt that's arguably BiS Offensive is a welcome reward.

For what its worth, my timer was super short when I was first doing the fight, but then got a lot longer after a cache clear (and so is long on all my recordings). I'm not sure what happened here.

DF	Post #: 12

7/4/2021 6:49:56

Laeon val Observis
Member

While I do understand the gripe of the players who think that timers in a turn-based game is oppressive, it's not like this is the first time AE has done so. Case in point, ED and OS. Plus, when compared to a flaming Ego, this is less pressuring as you just figure out where's the safe zone (and Caster/Archer here is generous enough for a tyrant pharaoh to provide hints to memorize) unlike the other who chips your HP even when you're taking a leak to a Thanos. Also, probably it's just how disciplined I can get when it comes to principles, endgame fighting has to always have the mindset of having to prepare for more than one bout to get the feel of the enemy.

While I'm in no rush to get the belt (oh yeah, that's a nice Pyro toolkit there), what's the consensus on dealing with the duos? Astral's vid takes DDR boy first, analyst last, whilst Korriban's is the other way around. And strangely enough, is it safe to trust my mind's image of the battle that necro would prevail here?

Now that I realized it, Sek's mechanic does open the door to allowing DF to put its take on Ledgermayne's iconic nuke skill once its turn on the CL board comes.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 7/4/2021 6:53:10 >

AQW

Post #: 13

7/4/2021 10:06:39

Dratomos
Helpful!

quote:

While I'm in no rush to get the belt (oh yeah, that's a nice Pyro toolkit there), what's the consensus on dealing with the duos? Astral's vid takes DDR boy first, analyst last, whilst Korriban's is the other way around. And strangely enough, is it safe to trust my mind's image of the battle that necro would prevail here?

In my opinion, Noxus is the bigger threat. As he starts to eGambit you (and making himself more easier to stun), I would just wait until he does it, stun him and finish him off.

Sek-Duat isn't really a threat if you figure out where he shoots his arrows.

I even finished the duo on EE without using any potions or food. And that is due to mostly taking out Noxus first and letting Sek-Duat just wave his staff.

AQW

Post #: 14

7/4/2021 12:23:41

Plutonium
Member

so, this Duo is the NEW bane of my existence

DF	Post #: 15

7/4/2021 12:58:56

1997p3
Member

Hmm might anyone be having difficulties moving to the north pad sometimes?

Post #: 16

7/4/2021 18:02:01

Laeon val Observis
Member

After much suffering (2 rounds, 5 pots, 4 Hero Diets), finally vanquished the duo with the mighty 200-DEX necro. Had to focus on Sek so as to lower my HP to troll Noxus' Overconfidence since the aforementioned class' durability is keeping damages to a low. Probably res manipulation could've altered the speed.

@above, unless you're using Techno with a displayed wep with a huge bottomside, which I cannot find any yet, there shouldn't be any issues moving to the north pad.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 7/4/2021 18:17:38 >

AQW

Post #: 17

7/4/2021 23:08:32

stratuscone
Member

quote:

While I'm in no rush to get the belt (oh yeah, that's a nice Pyro toolkit there), what's the consensus on dealing with the duos? Astral's vid takes DDR boy first, analyst last, whilst Korriban's is the other way around. And strangely enough, is it safe to trust my mind's image of the battle that necro would prevail here?

trying to chip in here to help others. I mostly followed Astral's V2 strategy, with a Rotten Hardtack for good measure. I killed Noxus first because of the annoying e-gambit suddenly 1-shotting me from 1.8k health and max darkness resist. I tried to keep track of Noxus' massive claw attacks and tried to make my HP higher than his for those turns in order to weaken the blow a bit. Sek-duat's arrows got me a few times, but i try to connect DOTs on him whenever the shields are down.

When Noxus is comfortably low and has his e-gambit, burst him. Managed to kill the duo in about 60-ish turns? yeah, it was a slow run haha, but i did manage to kill both within 2 turns of each other.

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Post #: 18

7/8/2021 3:46:31

AstralCodex
Member

I think Technomancer is the best class for this challenge due to how well it matches up vs both Noxus and Sek Duat. DeathKnight, Ranger, and EE/Base Poch are also great. Something like Dragon Mage is also okay, if you find yourself messing up on Sek arrow prompts and want a purge.

That being said, as long as you follow the arrow prompts and don't eat a ton of retaliate + don't die to a crit claw from Noxus, the challenge is relatively easy, so anything with a good shield and high damage should work.

DF	Post #: 19

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