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Is something up with AQ battles?

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10/24/2021 16:16:59   
Sphinx Jevoha
Member



Hello Guys :)

I just wanted to ask if there was something going on in the background regarding battles these days:

a) Many Leans have been altered, with some making little sense (Spellcasters take 1.25x damage and deal 1x damage on regular attacks, 1.3x on spells. This is a huge nerf because nobody would ever use Spellcaster armors for regular weapon attacks.)

b) Monsters seem to dodge like Michael Jackson moonwalking across an oil slick (example: 250 DEX/INT/LUK vs level 100 mob with 44 MRM, mob dodged 6 out of 10 hits, etc.)

c) Monsters with 0 LUK hitting Dodge builds like Robin Hood wielding an aimbot-assisted sniper rifle (example: 75 MRM + Roc day legendary crystal + Pig Drake + Paladin guest, around 120 MRM with 250 DEX/LUK, mob hits 7 out of 10 hits).


Basically, is there something happening in the background that we're not aware of?


Watch Korriban Gaming's latest AQ video, he mentions this too (full Dodge build with 110+ MRM, Salamander with 0 LUK hits him every single time).


Cheers!
Post #: 1
10/24/2021 16:34:39   
Lord Markov
Member

quote:

a) Many Leans have been altered, with some making little sense (Spellcasters take 1.25x damage and deal 1x damage on regular attacks, 1.3x on spells. This is a huge nerf because nobody would ever use Spellcaster armors for regular weapon attacks.)

Not sure what you mean by "many" when you only mention one, and I haven't noticed changes to any other leans, but this change was hardly a "background" one as this thread illustrates. As for your complaint about it being a nerf, I think you just explained the point of the "spellcaster" lean

quote:

b) Monsters seem to dodge like Michael Jackson moonwalking across an oil slick (example: 250 DEX/INT/LUK vs level 100 mob with 44 MRM, mob dodged 6 out of 10 hits, etc.)

One is a pretty small sample size, I can't say I've noticed anything unusual in the way of accuracy vs. the mobs I've fought over the past few days.

quote:

c) Monsters with 0 LUK hitting Dodge builds like Robin Hood wielding an aimbot-assisted sniper rifle (example: 75 MRM + Roc day legendary crystal + Pig Drake + Paladin guest, around 120 MRM with 250 DEX/LUK, mob hits 7 out of 10 hits).

I can't speak to dodge specifically since I don't play it, but again a sample size of one is minuscule, and citing 0 LUK monsters is pretty weak since LUK has such a marginal impact on BtH. I would suggest gathering more data before trying to draw any conclusions. I haven't heard any complaints from dodge build players in the past few days in the Discord so it's probably just a few bad RNG bits for you.
AQ  Post #: 2
10/24/2021 16:54:48   
Lv 1000
Member


 I can give you some background regarding Spellcaster Lean.

Basically, until the recent update, there was no unique formula for calculating the spell damage bonus provided by Spellcaster Lean. In fact the formula that was being used had NOTHING to do with lean mechanics at all, it was simply the EleComp calculation for a FO armor skill for a specific element. Please keep in mind that the decision to use this formula instead of a formula that is actually related to leans was entire arbitrary. Below I will detail the formula that is currently being used for Spellcaster Lean.

quote:

Since we assume 16 turns of dealing 1/1.25 of the expected damage, we can compensate for this by increasing the damage of spells.

  • We'll assume a Magic weapon for this since, if you are casting spells, you are assumed to be using a Magic weapon.

  • Now lets calculate the damage that is lost from dealing 1/1.25 of expected damage.

    With a Magic weapon we deal 75% melee for 16 turns so we have 75*16*1.25 = 1500% melee normally.

    However, since we are dealing 1/1.25 damage we're actually dealing 75*16*1 = 1200% melee.

    So this means that we've lost 1500-1200 = 300% melee in attack damage. Now thematically, because this is a "Spellcaster Lean" we funnel this missing %Melee into spell damage.

    Mages are assume to use 4 spells in 20 battles so we divide the 300% melee by 4 and get 75% melee, we then calculate the damage boost from this: (200 + 75) / 200 = *1.375.

    Thus we get a spell boost of *1.375 from our Spellcaster Lean assuming the stated damage output differential above.


    • One thing that I must note about the Spellcaster Lean is that there is no balance reason for the boost to be restricted to one element, this would be akin to saying "The FO lean on Mason Form armor only works for Water attacks" which inherently makes no sense because leans are never meant to be element-specific, thus the Spellcaster Lean should not be element-specific. The only reason why Spellcaster Lean has been element-specific in the past is because it was copy-pasting the EleComp value for FO armors which is design to be element-specific.
    Post #: 3
    10/24/2021 17:17:45   
    Sphinx Jevoha
    Member



    Hmm, so the Bloodmages remain the best armors in the game? I probably wouldn't have bought 3 Necromancer dragon armors if I knew they were going to nerf it so hard xD

    I think it's an unhealthy trend, nerfing everything just to make Bloodzerkers and Bloodmages the top tier armors.

    Armors ought to be element-specific, instead of being generic. As in, gives +75% damage boost to Fire spells, instead of +25% to All spells.

    Otherwise, we'll reach a situation wherein every armor henceforth is essentially a clone of another (you will take 1.25X damage from all mobs, you will deal 1.35x damage with all spells of all elements, etc.)


    Balance is good, but not at the cost of monotony.

    The fundamental issue here is the fact that everything, once rounded, equals a prefixed value. So it's 3,2,1 earlier, then 1,2,3 now, and 2,1,3 later.

    Maybe that famous saying that just buy Bloodzerkers and Bloodmages, and don't bother with any other armors, is true :P


    Cheers!
    Post #: 4
    10/24/2021 17:32:21   
    Zennistrad
    Member

    quote:

    Hmm, so the Bloodmages remain the best armors in the game? I probably wouldn't have bought 3 Necromancer dragon armors if I knew they were going to nerf it so hard xD


    The issue with the Necromancer Rider armors was mainly that their in-built spells didn't receive elecomp, since the boost from the spellcaster lean already gave elecomp to said abilities. Now that the spellcaster lean has been changed, I am not sure if they've been given Elecomp to their spell skills, but it seems to me like they're still decently powerful (especially since Elevuln is hands-down the strongest offensive status ailment in the game for nuke builds).
    AQ  Post #: 5
    10/24/2021 17:40:59   
    Lv 1000
    Member
    quote:

    Hmm, so the Bloodmages remain the best armors in the game? I probably wouldn't have bought 3 Necromancer dragon armors if I knew they were going to nerf it so hard xD

    I think it's an unhealthy trend, nerfing everything just to make Bloodzerkers and Bloodmages the top tier armors.


    This is not all the goal, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. There was a fundamental issue with the Spellcaster Lean, what happened was basically a bug fix, in that the lean should have NEVER functioned the way it did. Furthermore, the Ice Necro Cavalry armor is the 2nd best ice skill in the game, just a VERY TINY amount behind Cryomancer Bloodmage, AND the Dark Haunting and Grand Haunting skills from necromancer (with the spellcaster lean toggled) are the strongest Darkness skills/spells in the game, with both of them beating a hypothetical Darkness Bloodmage AND with Grand Haunting BEATING Tenebromancer Robes + Imbue Lore + Destruction Burst.

    Basically I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. Additionally, I would like to point out that Bloodzerkers have to spend more resources in order to make their damage even come close to come of the top spells in the game (i.e., using weapon click skills and damage boosting imbues).


    quote:

    Armors ought to be element-specific, instead of being generic. As in, gives +75% damage boost to Fire spells, instead of +25% to All spells.

    The spell boost provided from Spellcaster Lean has no reason to be element specific as I outlined in my post above, I suggest you read my post before making entirely inaccurate statements about game balance.
    Post #: 6
    10/24/2021 19:46:56   
      Lorekeeper
    And Pun-isher

     

    		 Only one lean has been altered, over reasons and feedback outlined above. There is also no trend (Nor a single instance) of nerfing items with the purpose of keeping blood armors as the best armors -- Those armors sacrifice health and take additional incoming damage to increase their offensive output, per the combined disadvantages of blood costs and Fully Offensive leans. This is one way of optimizing for damage, largely seen as 'the best' for turn one burst. The distinction is key -- We work to cater to more than any one niche, and any effort to create a universal 'best' would be self-defeating at its inception. Coding and balance concerns aside, the quality of an item is measured by its fitness for a niche, and thus there is only ever a 'best' for a given build or purpose rather than a universal best-in-slot.

    As of any notion that one is being preserved, the T3 class revamps alone stands as examples of armors far more versatile than any existing or potential blood armor counterparts.

    Armors themselves are already specific to element in their nature, but this doesn't translate nor relate to leans nor correspond to a monotony between the armors. FO and FD leans already boast a variety of armors that aren't merely clones of each other.

    All of that being addressed: There has also been no fundamental change to how monster stats work. If there is any anomalous behavior pertaining to accuracy or defenses, as opposed to isolated unlucky instances, that may be material for a bug report provided that it can be replicated with the same gear, situation, and mob.
    Post #: 7
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