=DF= December 17th Design Notes: Book 3: Reimagined: Lost and Found


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=DF= December 17th Design Notes: Book 3: Reimagined: Lost and Found

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12/17/2021 20:03:00

Peachii
Clairvoyant!

quote:

Verlyrus:
Book 3: Reimagined: Lost and Found

Hey there, heroes!

This month's Reimagined release has arrived! Return to Kara's past quests in Book 3 Sulen'Eska to play the latest addition to Book 3's main story: Lost and Found!

It seems yet another member of the Vind has run off, and of course, it's your job as hero to retrieve them!

And yet soon, with luck, the peace negotiations between The Rose and the Vind will come to pass.

Also this week, Tyndur's Depths has recieved some updates!
New anchor points and a new quest have been added to the sailing map.
These include anchor points where you can battle waves of foes and possibly earn Defender's Medals!
The starting port has been moved to better represent the location of Dragonsgrasp.

You can now access Tyndur's Depths sailing from the travel map, once you've made land at Dragesvard.

Finally, a note regarding the Reimagined story!

This is the last of the "character quests" in the Reimagined story. Things are about to pick up with the potential peace negotations, so if all these words and such aren't your cup of tea, don't worry! We're almost out of the swamp, so to speak. We hope you look forward to what we have in store!

Also, a couple of adjustments and bug fixes!

Fixed an issue where certain accessories and items could be improperly equipped or not equipped when using Build templates.

Bank searching now searches as you type!

Cosmetic items from last week's Tyndur's Depths have now been marked as Dragon Amulet only.

And that's all for this week!

Have feedback about recent releases? Have any crazy theories or ideas? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

Join the discussion on the official forums!

Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser?

Check out the Artix Games Launcher!

Follow us on Twitter for sneak peeks and updates (and feel free to tweet us your fan art and feedback too!)

Verlyrus Twitter

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Tags: #Verlyrus

AQW

Post #: 1

12/17/2021 22:57:35

Laeon val Observis
Member

Well, looks like it's time to play (re-)catch-up with the early Book 3. For now, completed a scan of the Tyndur's Depths unlike last week where I just prioritized getting to the Dragesvard camp.

spoiler:

The islands adjacent to the fungus camp contain regular Ice mobs from our side of lorean reality, while the mainland encounters hints that the infestation is more severe than last week's journeys provided. They're structured in the first Reckoning waves, just without the DDR board and more frequent solos to multis. Closer to the Braughlmurk port, there's a zone that'll either give Zeclem flashbacks or train you to prepare for it. So far, earned a stash of 5 DMs from the Ice and Hollow waves, and got a cosmetic helm from the zone I mentioned.

EDIT: And just cleared the reimagined quest. Plenty of fleshing out with regards to a key character in the Vind, and the enigmatic executioner is still vague with his motives. Pretty much setting the tone of where things are/will be at.

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 12/17/2021 23:27:44 >

AQW

Post #: 2

12/18/2021 2:11:30

Primate Murder
Member

quote:

This is the last of the "character quests" in the Reimagined story. Things are about to pick up with the potential peace negotations, so if all these words and such aren't your cup of tea, don't worry! We're almost out of the swamp, so to speak. We hope you look forward to what we have in store!

Well, our dragon certainly seems to be tired of all the talking!

In all seriousness though, I did rather enjoy establishing backgrounds, goals and character traits of other Vind characters. It feels like a massive upgrade, so a big thank you for that.

And that interaction between Amadeus and Akanthus? Pure gold!

spoiler:

Sepulchure

's sheer sass did more for his character than all of Book One!

Post #: 3

12/18/2021 5:31:06

Dratomos
Helpful!

I didn't know what to expect from the newest reimagined quest, but it was effective. I do like how each of these characters are much better handled then before. Niki was someone who felt discarded after the Dragon/Rose war in the original version.

For a while now, reimagined releases have been my favourite of the month and I'm looking forward to the conclusion of this.

spoiler:

As for the new drop places in the depths, pretty good. That new tomb was a clever way to do smaller version of Zeclem's Keep. Now we know where the Arena heroes got their "idea" for it.

AQW

Post #: 4

12/18/2021 23:24:16

Flabagast
Member

quote:

In all seriousness though, I did rather enjoy establishing backgrounds, goals and character traits of other Vind characters. It feels like a massive upgrade, so a big thank you for that.

And that interaction between Amadeus and Akanthus? Pure gold!

Strong agree. Nikki never really had much depth of character outside of being a friend to the Clawkin and the Vind in the old questline, so it's really great to see her get a backstory and reasons as to why she's so protective of the Clawkin and other races. And I always love the change in perspective to the Rose side of things in these quests; this one certainly didn't disappoint!

Post #: 5

12/19/2021 8:26:01

Allos
Member

I'm surprised the Design Notes had to put a disclaimer about the reimagineds because i liked these "character quests". Before these i still had *a* grasp on Mritha and Melissa but i couldn't even tell you what Nikki's character was at all. Glad thats changed, and i'm enjoying the ride.
And Amadeus was so good this time too, actual gold.

spoiler:

The new Tyndur quests were also nice, very interesting to see what seems to be Zeclem's keep in the modern day, if we are right to connect the dots. The cosmetics are pretty nice for Death Knight too!
Wonder if the save/load telepoints were intentional or an OOPSIE from copy/pasting Zeclem's Keep tho, considering the dungeon doesn't seem that big this time. Eh, no harm, not a bad QoL thing anyway.
The battle wave ones also have implications to consider, and they have a nice extra reward, even if it took me a LONG time to get it

i'm glad the cosmetics from last week were changed to DA tagged, as well as this week's ones being tagged too. Thanks Verly!
Was a good excuse to bully Elder Ice Dragon with Dragonslayer, which i find funny to watch..

AQW

Post #: 6

12/29/2021 19:33:45

TFS
Helpful!

Personally, I haven't been a big fan of these Reimagined quests this year.

While not having cringeworthy dialogue is always great, as is more Draco screentime, I feel as if these quests haven't been significantly better than the originals plot-wise, in that it just meanders and nothing at all happens. I remember fat-trimming being a goal earlier on, which is why the pinwheel quests were moved, but the past six or so months of just talking to characters like Nikki (who never end up impacting the plot beyond just being messengers or background yes-men) without accomplishing anything just seems like two steps back in that regard. If there's no plot advancement here, I don't understand why these are part of the main campaign and not just optional side quests, like the pinwheel quests.
Personally, at least, I had hoped that the Reimagined quests would expand on some things whose absence early-on actively harm the story later on (Dreamwood and the Vind? King Alteon? Warlic being glossed over? Akanthus actually doing anything? The Rose being antagonistic instead of allies 90% of the time?) rather than just polishing up filler. As it is, these quests have just been replacing nothing with better, shinier, longer nothing - as far as the actual plot goes, at least.

I might be overthinking this, but the fact that these quests all drop BiS items also seems like a forcible reallocation of player interest - like the additional incentive is needed to get people to play these releases (compare this to the main story and inn challenges, which for this same time period have only dropped cosmetics and unusable resources) and the content itself isn't the reward.

And, of course, this isn't to say the quests are bad or anything - they certainly aren't - I just think the way they're implemented exacerbates the existing pacing issue rather than remedying it.

At any rate, the promise that we'll be out of the woods soon is really great to hear - hopefully the worst is behind us.

< Message edited by TFS -- 12/29/2021 19:36:45 >

Post #: 7

12/29/2021 20:20:58

AstralCodex
Member

I strongly resonate with TFS's post above. ^

Post #: 8

12/30/2021 1:34:04

Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat

I'd like to ask for some trust in that these quests are building up to something.

I would also like to note that there is a vast difference between setting up random pinwheels and "yay war!", and actually learning more about a "main" Vind character's history and motivations.

Regarding some specifics, that you argue the lack of actively harms the later story -

Dreamwood and the Vind
I don't think the connection there is that necessary for the future story, especially with the removal of certain elements in quests to come (such as Kara's solo infiltration and subsequent events). It's certainly interesting, but I don't think it's necessary for the main story. Hence why the explanation of the connection is detailed in the optional Vind faction dialogue later.

King Alteon
He was included earlier already. And he will appear more, when relevant.

Warlic
I think it's fair to wonder what he's up to. I don't know if not having him around harms the later story, but it would be interesting to interact with him earlier, for sure. Or at least have characters wondering what he is up to. I agree with this.

Akanthus
I disagree with this one. It should be clear that Akanthus is planning to do something VERY soon. And his interactions with Jaania and Amadeus are earlier characterizations in the story for these important characters. Players going through the story don't have the luxury of all the later Akanthus brooding/conflict. If I want Akanthus to do something big, I need to establish him so that it is not out of nowhere- and even more so for the future.

The Rose as foes
See above.

Regarding BiS items, that's on me. I'm not good at statting items, so any BiS is purely coincidence. Definitely not uh, encouragement to play content. I have the luxury of not having to think about metrics etc for the most part, so I usually do not bring that into my design decisions. If there are any issues with stats, that's all on me. And I have already taken steps to consult with testers on a greater scale regarding item stats, as this concern has already been brought to my attention.

Back to the story,
I would like to ask for trust and understanding. Everything needs to tie together. Even if a character was disliked or irrelevant, they exist. And they've been dragged through the entirety of Book 3. Entirely expunging said characters, regardless of merit, was beyond the scope of the Reimagined project, as it would have led to even more confusion and disjunction than currently exists.

And as we are cutting out/moving Espina Rosa/Dragonrider War, it should be clear that I am intending on replacing that meandering with something different. Something that is hopefully more impactful, and I truly believe that having at least these brief characterizations of the Vind members is important for that.

Finally, thanks for the feedback. Even if I view the content and story another way, other views and interpretations are legitimate and important for me to see and understand. I cannot, (and hopefully this didn't come across as such) simply say "you're wrong", because a player's experience is their experience. No matter what I say, or how i try to explain it, that is a player's experience.

I can only hope that my explanations help show that these are things that I do think about, and that I myself am keeping in mind with all of the plans.

< Message edited by Verlyrus -- 12/30/2021 1:37:07 >

Post #: 9

12/30/2021 4:41:58

TFS
Helpful!

For the sake of clarification, I don't think characterizing the likes of Nikki and Melissa is at all a bad thing - the opposite, actually - I just don't think these quests being a part of the main storyline when they don't progress the plot outside of an Amadeus check-in at the end is great for pacing. Had they just been optional side quests or something I think it'd have felt like more natural character-building instead of filler. Learning more about these people who'll be around for most of the story is great! Being told a glut of unimportant details without seeking them out, not so much - it feels slightly forced, IMO at least.

I also think some of these details might have more of an impact on a new player than it might seem at first.
Kara, unlike Nikki and Melissa, is crucial to the plot, yet she's the only one of these characters we agree to help who we know anything about. While someone who's caught up with the later story will probably know the faction dialogue about the Dreamwood/Vind origins, new players aren't going to have anything about this character's motivations or where she came from (besides "we oppose the Rose and I'm the leader."). While telling more about the Dreamwood than has already been told would have been silly this early in the story, as would the specifics of Kara's story, just having a little bit of information about her motivations would have gone a long way, I think.
I think Warlic's importance is probably underestimated as well. A player who's just started Book 3 after completing Book 2 will probably be most invested in seeing what happened to Warlic (and Xan and Jaania) following the Book 2 ending - but he's just kind of glossed over with a short, missable "gone." until he suddenly appears about halfway through Book 3 like nothing happened. Though this is more of an issue with the lead-up to Suleneska, I (personally, at least) had hoped this would have been addressed by now - never getting any closure to Book 2's abrupt ending is something that I always thought made early Book 3 seem so divorced from the rest of the game.
I hope my lack of faith in Akanthus can be forgiven - while he's certainly plotting something, just plotting something and never going anywhere is the state he had been in in the original story and change blindness is deafening.

I also hope I didn't come off as overly negative - more is clearly being built towards and I'm definitely looking forward to that. The expansion of Mritha's character was excellent - it wasn't exclusive with story/conflict progression, it provides early traces of a later plot thread, and she's actually important - which is why Melissa and Nikki felt like steps back. I'm also looking forward to the Swordhaven parley - acknowledgement of Victoria and getting the player to Swordhaven in a more logical way are excellent additions that definitely do fix former issues that would have harmed later parts of the story.
I don't have any doubts that pacing is being taken into account and won't continue to be an issue in the next segment of the story.

< Message edited by TFS -- 12/30/2021 4:44:35 >

DF	Post #: 10

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