Winter Gold Donation Contest


	Home \| Login \| Register \| Help \| Play

Winter Gold Donation Contest

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [AdventureQuest] >> AdventureQuest General Discussion >> Winter Gold Donation Contest

Page 1 of 2

Forum Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

10/29/2023 22:03:47

Sapphire
Member

In lieu of the previous thread having vanished, and considering Hollow provided an update and said in a post in that deleted thread that they would be moving to a community prize system for the gold "rewards", I think someone needed to make a new thread to perhaps help flesh out some ideas. But nobody has, so here one is.

I wanted to just say that I think a community prize system is OK, but if that's all it will be, everyone who spent all year diligently taking time to gold farm (and some players do this on multiple characters BTW) for the *SOLE* purpose of the gold contest, this isn't sitting well with them. I have seen numerous comments that "gold farming is now pointless". I kind of think this decision disincentivizes playing AQ.

The change I think was made because the gold dono contest was wrought with issues. It did need some tweaks, but I think this isn't it.

So w/o burdening staff's workload, what are some ideas that can go along with the community prize idea that actually keep this a contest somehow rather than making it more akin to a blood drive?

< Message edited by Sapphire -- 10/29/2023 23:51:30 >

Post #: 1

10/30/2023 8:45:18

Dardiel
Member

I figure I should give some input, largely because I'm one of the players that spent all year diligently taking time to gold farm for the sole purpose of the gold contest - I'm not huge on others telling me what my opinion is so I'll clarify what it is:

Regarding the contest being a community thing, it's fine. Community goals can be fun, and it's more generally good-natured since there's less fear of missing out that can potentially lead to regret from people that make suboptimal IRL decisions just to try and avoid the feeling. I don't feel that my time farming has been wasted because I still have the gold that I can use for future items/contests as needed, and I don't oppose changes that makes things better just because it used to not be that way. However, if the contest is purely community goals with no bonuses for those that donate the most, I do agree that there becomes less personal incentive to farm every day - if it's considered a good thing for players to grind the same battle 50-something times every day for the whole year then removing individual incentives would be something to warn about; however if it's NOT intentional for players to engage with the game in that manner, the community contest is fine although there might need to be a separate discussion on how to maintain engagement with the game.

I think in my ideal world it would indeed be community goals with some cool perks for those that donate the most (I believe Sapphire had the idea of also giving daily rewards based on who donated the most that day, I think that would be great for keeping engagement up throughout the entire event), but if the contest is purely community goals then I'll take "you don't have to waste time grinding every day" as still being pretty cool.

Post #: 2

10/30/2023 12:16:09

Korriban Gaming
Banned

Since the previous thread vanished so abruptly, I will try to recall as much as what I said.

First off, I'm not super against changing the contest to a donation drive, but if given a choice, I would absolutely prefer if it had stayed the same.

I can understand that this change was made so more of the free and lower level players can get the prizes. Not to sound selfish, but the question I keep asking is why should they?

1. Lower level players or any players not at max level should be saving their gold for max level, stat training and permanent equipment in the game that we already know is going to be good for their build. How is it a good idea to ask them to dump all their gold to help the community achieve some completely random rewards that may not even suit their build or playstyle?
2. Chaotic has done the math previously. It is indeed close to impossible for a completely F2P account to place top spot in the contest. But these completely F2P players are really only experiencing half the game without Guardian. Should they unlock the rest of the levels, map locations, class skills and Frostval Giftboxes too while we're at it? They are already given a very generous trial of the game without having to spend a dime. I don't see why they need more especially if you consider the fact that this can be another selling point for Guardian. Is some random reward from the gold donation drive going to improve their F2P experience so much when they don't even have Guardian? I would say the benefits are insignificant.
3. Dono contest items are more often than not, perma rare effects. If you're arguing about accessibility, it changes nothing because new players whether they're F2P or P2W equally have no shot at getting items from past contests. These prizes are meant to be exclusive and isn't supposed to be accessible to begin with. It's also once a year compared to literally everything else. Is having 1 set of rare items once a year so bad considering it can be seen as a reward for players that stick around?

On why requiring Guardian for the Gold contest isn't ridiculous

1. $20 for the ability to win the contest isn't a lot. Not when you compare it to the prices of other games nowadays. On top of that, you're also getting a heap of other benefits with the Guardian purchase.
2. This is a 1 time fee. You pay for the Guardianship once and you have the ability to place high in every subsequent gold dono contest from then onwards with just time and effort and no extra money spent. It makes sense that this should be harsher than the token contest since you would need to spend money every single token contest to have a shot at winning.

This is a slap in the face to players who farmed gold

1. All of the Spirit Misc items have been devalued to the point of being completely worthless with this change. Sure, they didn't have much use to begin with but now their sole purpose is rendered moot. You don't need these items to win the contest but the people who buy these items don't buy them to win the contest, they buy them to optimize their gold farming. What's the point of farming gold anymore when there's zero incentive to do so?
2. People who have spent the whole year gold capping everyday, maybe not on 1 character but some even on 10 literally wasted all their time for nothing with this change when someone else who could have just started the game yesterday can get the exact same rewards as them by doing nothing.

Ok then, what about that Adventurer that farmed a ton but was still unable to place high? Since Anim confirmed that the whole idea of disallowing Gold Storage Chest transfers would still be abusable by transferring other high value items, then the solution can be one of or a combination of the 2 below.
- Primate Murder's suggestion of a level 135 Gold Storage Chest
- My suggestion of having 2 leaderboards. One for Guardians and one for Adventurers. Except make the leaderboard rankings be tied to accounts rather than characters. E.g someone with a Guardian character on that account won't be able to place on the Adventurer leaderboards even if they have Adventurer characters

What's left to keep players engaged at endgame?

I personally see this as a coincidental kneejerk reaction to not only address the concerns of some of the louder, albeit minority voices in the community but also as some sort of incentive for the influx of returning players the game got recently. This is nothing more than a bandaid solution because these players will eventually reach max level and will join the already huge, core pool of endgame players in a matter of months. Unless they're trying new builds or challenge battles all the time to keep themselves entertained, they will be left with nothing to do apart from waiting for the week's new release. And even then, some release weeks will not have something for everyone (GGB or token package for example). This can't possibly be good for engagement.

Cosmetic incentives for top donors and going forward

I do not think purely cosmetic incentives would be sufficient for the top donors to keep grinding away everyday. Now, I may be wrong, but unless we see some sort of cosmetic function added like AQW or DF, they will remain largely an afterthought, practical use would almost always take precedence.

If we're going forward with the change this year then I do not think the total donated amount this year would be a good indication of the success of the event because this was announced so late into the year with most players having already farmed for 10 months. This is also made worse since Hollow's announcement was removed along with the old post so some players still might be unaware of the changes (please post that again somewhere). Players who have already done their farming for the year would likely dump whatever they have as they always do every year. They would then reconsider if it would still be worth the effort to continue to farm for subsequent years when their efforts nets them the same rewards as others who don't need to put in any effort. The number of donors "hard carrying" the contest would only decrease. Is the entire playerbase supposed to be reliant on these few good samaritans and hardcore farmers every year? What if some of them gets tired and leave eventually? Will we always have someone stepping up to pick up this baton?

There needs to be more incentive for the top donors apart from purely cosmetic rewards. In which case I would say just stop trying to reinvent the wheel, just go back to what it originally was.

For the point regarding needing more gold sinks and the various suggestions I came up with, I think those should be a thread on its own so I will not discuss that here.

I do like Sapphire's idea about the daily rewards thing. I do not think it fixes the issue with changing the contest to a donation drive but is certainly an improvement to the contest as a whole.

Overall, by changing the contest to a donation drive, the benefits to free players are insignificant compared to the cons that the other players who have bought Guardian (and for some, Spirit Miscs too) and spent their time farming will suffer. As such, I urge the staff to reconsider this decision or at least come up with more improvements/incentives.

< Message edited by Korriban Gaming -- 10/30/2023 12:19:51 >

AQW

Post #: 3

10/30/2023 16:47:51

Aura Knight
Member

I think this change will be a better way. As someone who's too lazy to farm, working towards donation goals as part of a group rather than individual competition would allow even me to get some proper rewards. And let's face it, some of you go beyond the realm of absurdity with how much you collect over time just to see your names on a list where you can pretend to be generous. The moment that's threatened we get a post like this. Donate because it's a nice thing to do not because of a reward.

AQW

Post #: 4

10/30/2023 19:05:00

Sapphire
Member

Don't know who that's intended for, but I would venture a guess that most people are entitled to have an opinion based on the specific factors of any one topic or situation. Specifics matter and blanket approaches to form opinions on topics is likely devoid of thinking. This is why everyone is entitled to form their own opinions. It is perfectly acceptable and normal to have a different opinion on a similar, yet actually different topic due to the differences in details. So I don't see the reason for the trolling.

In regards to what Dardiel said, I think player QoL would be improved without the perceived need to gold cap every day, so I see your point. However, at what cost to player engagement overall? I still think some sort of incentive needs to be a part of the gold donation contest in some form. If staff is heckate bent on just keeping this community prizes, it should have been announced not long after LY's contest so that players can make their own decisions on if it's still worth the time and effort. While you feel the gold storage chest hoarding is still worth it for later, the next player may feel "cheated" of their time. I'm just saying, based on comments, there is a growing mindset that gold farming is now a waste.

I think it was more or less shot down, but yes I do feel like a daily top 5 or 10 or 15 or something prize for top gold donators for that day would provide incentive and fun. I just don't see solely a community prize paving the way to reach goals, unless the items were pre-made, info subs posted, and the items were so good that everyone makes a push to obtain it. People aren't going to donate massive amounts out of the goodness of their hearts. Let's be real.

Post #: 5

10/30/2023 20:57:10

CH4OT1C!
Member

A key point being repeated by critics of this change centres around how it disadvantages those who spent large amounts of time farming Gold. I don't think anyone has disagreed on this point thus far. Players that invest large amounts of time and effort into collecting Gold for the event should rightly expect to reap the benefits. My issue comes when one invokes this principle to justify a reversion to the old system. While the announcement shifts the Gold Drive to a community-oriented event, it does not preclude the possibility for top Donator rewards. I welcome discussion on appropriate ways to do this but, nonetheless, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Therefore, using it to justify reverting the decision focuses more on fear of how the event has changed rather than reasonable criticism of the announced change (i.e. it will have community rewards).

One must also then consider the old system itself. It's certainly true that the old system allowed these dedicated players to prosper. However, it does so by making certain players not just unable to compete at the top bracket, but unable to even reach top 150. This isn't about an Adventurer being able to compete with an account that has 10 Level 150 Guardians that have farmed for months. My calculations were about demonstrating that it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) to get anything at all from these contests, even if they were to work as hard or harder than the individuals reaching those top spots. That isn't rewarding effort.

Since it has repeatedly been brought up in multiple threads at this point, I'll address the elephant in the room: Why should Adventurers and low-levelled players be able to compete at all? These are two very different groups (the latter can be Guardians/X-Guardians), so I need to take them on individually.

I'm once again going to avoid voicing my opinion on whether Adventurers should be able to compete as "non-paying players". I don't think it's an avenue for constructive discussion and that decision is ultimately one the Staff need to make. However, I do think the wrong question is being asked. I've spoken a lot about the Gold contest, but I performed the calculations for last year's Winter Z-token contest back in February as well. The results were clear: Adventurers were at a disadvantage, but they could compete far more effectively. It makes sense if given a little thought. The max-level Adventurer Z-Token cap is half that of a Guardian, whereas the Gold cap is closer to a quarter. The real question to ask ourselves is: How can we justify preventing Adventurers from realistically competing on Gold, when they can realistically compete on the premium Z-token currency without paying? At bare minimum we should be logically consistent. Either they should be able to realistically compete on both, or neither. The only other thing I would point out is with regards to:

quote:

... Should they unlock the rest of the levels, map locations, class skills and Frostval Giftboxes too while we're at it? They are already given a very generous trial of the game without having to spend a dime. I don't see why they need more especially if you consider the fact that this can be another selling point for Guardian. Is some random reward from the gold donation drive going to improve their F2P experience so much when they don't even have Guardian? I would say the benefits are insignificant.

This is a straw-man argument, taking some of the general principles being mentioned without the nuanced detail or caveats, and applying them over a range of extremes that nobody has suggested.

Lower-levelled players are a different story, and I'm happy to share my take on this one: They should be able to compete. The primary objection against Adventurers is not valid here, since lower-levelled players can still invest in tokens, buy Guardian and such. The only separator is that magic max-level number. Nor is this a situation where @Primate Murder's Level 135 storage box will help, because they're not high enough level to buy it. Moreover, the specific objection isn't exactly very convincing:

quote:

1. Lower level players or any players not at max level should be saving their gold for max level, stat training and permanent equipment in the game that we already know is going to be good for their build. How is it a good idea to ask them to dump all their gold to help the community achieve some completely random rewards that may not even suit their build or playstyle?

That Gold could well be better spent, yes. However, it's the player's prerogative as to how they should spend their Gold. It's unreasonable to prevent them from competing simply because one thinks "they should be spending it on something else". It goes beyond this though - there are certain circumstances where assumptions are unreasonable even if the player agency is technically retained. For example, it's pretty unreasonable to force players to power level just to be able to compete. It essentially forces the player to develop their character in a certain way to have any hope, and assumes they have access to the knowledge to power-level in the first place.

I want to really double down on that point about information. We often overlook that a large amount of technical know-how goes into competing that isn't shared. A lot aren't necessarily aware of how donating works, or that multiple characters significantly boost your chances of success. This only reinforces the problem.

Some minor other points:

Regarding @Sapphire's point around how some find Gold to be worthless: I fully support the introduction of other ways to increase Gold's relative value. Again, this needn't be related to the contest

Regarding @Korriban Gaming's point on Spirit miscs being devalued: Yes, but my calculations also showed that they made little difference even in the old system. Little value can be lost when they add little to begin with. I believe a more constructive approach would be finding ways to buff the spirit miscs themselves.

In the same vein, I support a separate discussion on retaining endgame interest.

I really struggled with this argument:

quote:

3. Dono contest items are more often than not, perma rare effects. If you're arguing about accessibility, it changes nothing because new players whether they're F2P or P2W equally have no shot at getting items from past contests. These prizes are meant to be exclusive and isn't supposed to be accessible to begin with. It's also once a year compared to literally everything else. Is having 1 set of rare items once a year so bad considering it can be seen as a reward for players that stick around?

The best I could do was "They'll be permarare either way, so changing the system won't help item accessibility". True but, if so, I can only really interpret the statement as a nothing-burger. It neither supports retaining the old system, nor changing it. Maybe I interpreted this wrong and, if so, please do let me know what you meant.

Post #: 6

10/30/2023 21:29:50

Korriban Gaming
Banned

quote:

And let's face it, some of you go beyond the realm of absurdity with how much you collect over time just to see your names on a list where you can pretend to be generous.

quote:

Donate because it's a nice thing to do not because of a reward.

I won't speak for everyone but I personally do not care about seeing my name up there on some generosity list. They could hide the list or take my name out, I'll donate if there's something good in it for me either way. I'm selfish, as are alot of other people, I do it for the rewards, not to show others I'm being generous and I don't see anything wrong with wanting something in return for the efforts being put in.

quote:

I think it was more or less shot down, but yes I do feel like a daily top 5 or 10 or 15 or something prize for top gold donators for that day would provide incentive and fun. I just don't see solely a community prize paving the way to reach goals, unless the items were pre-made, info subs posted, and the items were so good that everyone makes a push to obtain it. People aren't going to donate massive amounts out of the goodness of their hearts. Let's be real.

Agreed. Some will, but not all. And I'd hazard a guess that even those who do donate out of the goodness of their hearts, would not put in as much effort as a contest that gives them some exclusive rewards. You can donate out of goodwill so everyone can get something and want a little something out of it too, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

quote:

While the announcement shifts the Gold Drive to a community-oriented event, it does not preclude the possibility for top Donator rewards.

So are you suggesting top donors can get exclusive rewards too that aren't purely cosmetic and the rest can unlock community rewards? If that's the case then I certainly wouldn't be against it. If you mean purely cosmetic rewards only then I already explained why it wouldn't be a good idea in my previous post.

quote:

However, it's the player's prerogative as to how they should spend their Gold.

Correct, the decision to do whatever they want with their account has always been on them. But as with any other game, there are optimal plays you can make and no one in the right mind would recommend new/returning players to make sub optimal plays.

quote:

For example, it's pretty unreasonable to force players to power level just to be able to compete.

Aren't they already forced to power level to even play the game properly? So what difference does this make?

quote:

The best I could do was "They'll be permarare either way, so changing the system won't help item accessibility". True but, if so, I can only really interpret the statement as a nothing-burger. It neither supports retaining the old system, nor changing it. Maybe I interpreted this wrong and, if so, please do let me know what you meant.

You interpreted it correctly. Changing it doesn't help item accessibility. This doesn't support the old system but it doesn't support the new one either. It's meant to be an add-on point on how changing the contest is pointless, combine it with my other points and you'll see why I'm saying that changing it is actually worse than keeping it status quo.

AQW

Post #: 7

10/30/2023 22:16:10

dizzle
Member

Shame on those who donate just to get perma rare items and a spot on the leaderboard.

Post #: 8

10/30/2023 22:58:55

Aura Knight
Member

A system where the reward style is cycled might be the proper solution. At some point everyone gets what they like. There is valid concern for lack of reason to donate too but this can be solved by keeping reward effects hidden. To counteract this at the times where the rewards will be requiring community reached milestones, only then will player feedback be necessary for the rewards. Surely we can trust dev creativity enough.

AQW

Post #: 9

10/31/2023 2:34:08

Sapphire
Member

Finding other ways for players to spend their gold would need to take place, but I don't see that happening in the near future, despite the fact if this change ends up sticking, it'd be creating a massive need for it....and like now. AQ time would need to take a backseat and a sense of urgency would need to actually be there. All likely implausible.

There needs to be a way to incentivize donating outside the confines of "goodness of our poor, tender, loving hearts" but also as fair as possible to everyone....with "as possible" being the key because you're not going to be 100% fair, and it really shouldn't be totally fair. Level differences should matter, and it should motivate lower-level players to level up and adventurers to find more reasons to guardianize. We can't placate completely to the masses in some utopian gaming social experiment. Removing incentives (which is what socialism does) will only serve to create mediocrity. Ultimately, this will end up lowering player engagement and might even lead to some players not playing nearly as much.

I still think rewarding time and effort have to be in play, and this is coming from someone who doesn't gold farm and won't come close to placing in the top X in this contest.

Post #: 10

10/31/2023 7:32:15

legendd
Member

@Chaotic

quote:

Therefore, using it to justify reverting the decision focuses more on fear of how the event has changed rather than reasonable criticism of the announced change (i.e. it will have community rewards).

The fear you mentioned here is an opinion. Otherwise, we would have claim your fear of OP items with those GBIs.

Since I did not comment on previous thread that got deleted, personally support the community thing as I don't farm gold. An opinion.

Post #: 11

10/31/2023 10:42:02

Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

There is a wide line between disagreement and bringing community rivalries into official forum discussions. Please mind it.

Post #: 12

10/31/2023 13:23:38

Dardiel
Member

There could be some merit in defining what each contest is "about" in terms of how one should go about winning and how it should encourage positive interactions within the community. I would thus view the contests as:

- Token contest is a matter of who spends the most, with the community bonus of tokens being distributed that can easily be the vast majority of the tokens that a player earns all year.
- Gold contest is a matter of who puts in the most work within the game, with the (newly-declared) community bonus of the donation goals that unlock gear for all players.

I think the two major implications would be for the gold contest:

A: If it's a measure of work within the game, level wouldn't matter nor would guardianship - buying guardian doesn't take effort within the game, and wallet-based factors align more with the token contest.
B: The gold contest would still have rewards for the winners, as motivation to donate a lot as opposed to donating the minimum amount to meet the goals (and the weird dynamic that comes with trying to get everyone else to donate their gold so you don't have to).

I think point A is the one that's more divisive, and I sadly do not have any real ideas for how you could measure the work done by a player without creating an abusable system (eg you could measure "gold donated divided by gold cap" to remove level as a factor, but that wouldn't stop a level 150 from funneling their gold into a level 5 for the lowest divisor; meanwhile something like war waves would benefit only those with aggressive builds). If I had to throw out something though, it would be:

The contest is a Gold Delivery contest - you play as the merry elf himself (or as someone else, important thing is that it's an overwrite of the player so everybody is on the same level) and battle through endless waves - each victory results in you gaining 1 point, and a random player getting a gold donation - the winners are those that won the most battles/got the most points and donated the most gold as a result.

The above would be "fair" but unless the pseudo-war is permanently available there would be less reason to do a bunch of battles every day, however as has been mentioned there could already be a separate discussion on how to reward gold farming outside of the yearly contest.

< Message edited by Dardiel -- 10/31/2023 13:42:01 >

Post #: 13

10/31/2023 15:21:26

Sapphire
Member

There simply should be ideas implemented that try and remove some of the disadvantages to adventurers. I'm not concerned about "low-level players". If a player is low level either due to 1. Being new 2. Lack of drive to play 3. Real life obstacles prevents it

Then I'm sorry, tough luck. Attempting to cater to players who don't play much I find to be asinine. The game isn't a charity event and The Gold dono event is about dedication and availability to play, really. It should remain that way, with some changes to even the playing field a little bit. (You will never be able to make this 100% fair, as even the community prize only system isn't fair either)

Post #: 14

10/31/2023 15:52:32

Aura Knight
Member

Is the desire for exclusive rewards a non-negotiable point for some of you? The easiest solution would be milestone shops for all but those who donate at the top standings get customization for the rewards like how war rewards are done.

Customization could be in reward appearance, making them scale. color, elemental change. This helps prevent missing out on rewards due to last moment donations.

Or we could try for the 2 sets thing where there really is something for all where there's similar effects but not exact.

AQW

Post #: 15

10/31/2023 16:26:05

Dardiel
Member

I do feel there's a fair amount of actual agreement going on in this thread, just that it's getting drowned out by debates over the details. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though we have a starting point where most or all participants in the discussion agree that:

Fact: The non-token contest is a contest of commitment to AdventureQuest, shown via effort spent instead of money spent.
Good Thing: A community goal for the contest.
Good Thing: Top competitors in the contest receiving additional rewards.
Problem: Adventurer players are currently effectively incapable of being top competitors in this contest that is advertised as being open to all players.

If we do indeed have this common ground, it could be beneficial to keep in mind that we all agree on these points as we continue the discussion about how a contest could best operate.

Post #: 16

10/31/2023 17:19:34

Grace Xisthrith
Member

I want to talk about a few things, mainly the old gold donation format, potential motivators for donation in a new community driven format, adventurers / low levels, unrelated gold sinks, and dev time optimization for the gold donation contest.

The old gold donation format was quite grindy. To compete (without dumping tons on GGBs) players had to farm ahead of time, and players with more guardians on their account had a massive advantage, due to receiving donations making up way more gold than the farmable gold per day (From many players' observations, the gold donations seem to end up in level 150 guardians hands way more than level 135 adventurers, even though there's been claimed to be a 15 level gap in who can receive gold donations. Perhaps this 15 level gap is some AQ deep lore that isn't true anymore, or not. It's mostly irrelevant). Adventurers couldn't compete at all. That's a pretty scuffed system, although Sapphire is right it probably did significantly increase daily time spent on AQ servers.

In a new community donation contest, should players be motivated to donate highly outside of just winning the leaderboard, and winning the community goals? Who knows, but if so, I recommend picking something to motivate it, Sapphire's Item of the week / month to top donators during that time, Daily items like the crown or stuff from other events, or perhaps a daily 5 ggb award to people who've donated more than their gold cap that day (that would be 300 GGBs over the course of the contest, not a significant loss to AQ, and scaling it by gold cap would allow low levels to compete). Don't know if this is needed, but those are some random, mediocre ideas on what a motivator could be.

Should adventurers be able to compete in the gold donation contest? I think so. I think there are two ways to accomplish this. First, make the gold chest level 0, and available in Robina's shop. Thematically appropriate given she gives monsters gold in the lore, it fits with the other f2p level 0 scaling item we have in Robina's shop, and it would be nice for players who want to make OP low level accounts with usually unobtainable stats (like 250 at level 50, normally impossible). Adventurer accounts can feasibly farm on alts to achieve the amount of gold needed for top 50 last year, although it would be quite a grind with quite a few alts, but it would make it possible even if the donation set wasn't community oriented. (Quick math, 8 Alts, 26 battles on Gogg per day = ~7-8 minute gold cap each, 25.5 Mil each per day, 25.5 x 8 = 204M Gold per day, 35B/204M=~172 days of farming, multiply that by 6/5 for the chest to gold conversion, ~205 days of farming. Totally crazy, but possible, and puts them easily on the map for top 100 in a much easier timeframe).

Should low levels be able to compete in the gold donation contest? I think yes in theory, but practically, no. There is no efficient way to gold farm without also farming massive amounts of XP, so anyone who farms for more than 3 weeks will hit level 135, so anyone who tries hard at farming will reach higher levels while farming, and then be able to grind the same gold as the max level adventurers listed above. So, I don't think it matters if grinding remains a part of the gold donation contest, because anyone who grinds gold during the contest will hit max level. As a quick aside, I've already debated this point with players previously elsewhere, I have no intent to have the same debate all over again, I'm merely putting my opinions on the forums for posterity. Feel free to counter them if you'd like, as my opinions are different from many peoples.

Is the community gold contest going to have buy ins to access the shop after it goes to ballyhoo? I would heavily petition for no, and to keep them as nonrare items for all types of players to come. I've been regularly recommending new or returning players items from the Mermazon set, and I'd be sad to see a similar community set go rare for no real reason. This would also solve the issue of lower level players and adventurers being unable to compete with guardians in the gold donation.

Other gold sink ideas: Gold sinks could be great. I think a few nice ideas are (no idea how feasible these are, but spitballing): Changing your no drop items to any chosen set of items you own for a login; access to a more modern set of lucretia potions, think (slight bonuses) status potence, MRM, passive status infliction, etc (raw powercreep but valued at less than 7 bth, dead eye straight style); temporary access to some seasonal events for a login / 24 hours, this would devalue paintings, but let returning players get items instead of being told to wait 9 months to finish their build; cool fashion items, perhaps visual clones of retro armors, shields, or weapons; actually expensive gold cost items in battle (powercreep?), or something. Just another spitballed set of mediocre ideas, but I'm sure the potential is there in someone's ideas to make an interesting and appealing gold sink.

Finally, as a note to the developers, please optimize dev time for the gold donation / next donation season. I don't mean to come off in a disrespectful tone, but many players have regularly complained about Mermazon's disjointedness on release as a set, the "clone wars" aspect of it, and how it was released quickly rather than slowly, which players perceive to be the cause of those issues. This has also caused some of the staff to go on record saying multiple pieces of the set would be adjusted, including the perfectly effective misc, which synergizes well with the set and is the best in slot healing misc, which I personally perceive to be an inefficient use of time for an already strapped squad. I would hate to see another set tarnished, or viewed as tarnished, by these same issues, or for these issues to cut into other things, like the Mage class revamp, which I'm super excited for. After archmage of course : p. But seriously, I think considering ways to minimize the workload (like perhaps returning / reskinning items like the Pearl of Power, a highly desired rare stun item, instead of making new items for daily rewards, or while I'm at it, returning rare items that clones have been made of, like Radiant Aegis or Moglin Sword), and not promising too many items or perks to quickly, could be considered to run a even better donation event than before. I hope this message comes off as constructive criticism, and I apologize if it does not.

AQ	Post #: 17

10/31/2023 22:08:38

Korriban Gaming
Banned

quote:

A: If it's a measure of work within the game, level wouldn't matter nor would guardianship - buying guardian doesn't take effort within the game, and wallet-based factors align more with the token contest.

I'd argue that level should matter. These donation contests have always been an endgame thing. I mean, why should anyone spend copious amounts of gold on something completely random unless you're already at endgame with nothing else to spend on? It's not like lower levels can farm gold efficiently anyway, and doesn't everyone reach max level eventually? Furthermore, you're already more or less "forced" to power level to max to even enjoy the game properly. Why does everyone want this max level requirement to be changed at all? No one logically, should be dumping gold into contests until they're already max with all the other gear purchased for their own setup. The choice is theirs to do what they want, yes, but it is simply a suboptimal play to make.

quote:

Then I'm sorry, tough luck. Attempting to cater to players who don't play much I find to be asinine. The game isn't a charity event and The Gold dono event is about dedication and availability to play, really. It should remain that way, with some changes to even the playing field a little bit. (You will never be able to make this 100% fair, as even the community prize only system isn't fair either)

Agreed. Should someone who works less doing the same job be paid the same as someone who works more?

quote:

Is the desire for exclusive rewards a non-negotiable point for some of you? The easiest solution would be milestone shops for all but those who donate at the top standings get customization for the rewards like how war rewards are done.

It's more of a large motivating factor as to why most farm as hard as they do. Some will do it anyway or out of "kindness" but I think most will not put in so much work everyday for nothing. I'm not confident that purely cosmetic rewards will be good enough, especially not unless they implement some sort of cosmetic "show" system in AQ.

quote:

Good Thing: Top competitors in the contest receiving additional rewards.

As Chaotic pointed out earlier, I agree that it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. We can still have community drive rewards for everyone and exclusive rewards for the top donors.

quote:

Problem: Adventurer players are currently effectively incapable of being top competitors in this contest that is advertised as being open to all players.

quote:

Should adventurers be able to compete in the gold donation contest? I think so.

Like I suggested earlier, rather than finding ways for completely free players to compete with P2W Guardians and slapping those who spent money in the face, just split the leaderboard into Adventurer and Guardian accounts. That way, everyone is competing on the same terms within their own leaderboard.

quote:

Sapphire's Item of the week / month to top donators during that time, Daily items like the crown or stuff from other events, or perhaps a daily 5 ggb award to people who've donated more than their gold cap that day (that would be 300 GGBs over the course of the contest, not a significant loss to AQ, and scaling it by gold cap would allow low levels to compete).

I think these suggestions are good and I agree with them. I'm still against the whole level scaling thing though as mentioned earlier. Just let the dono contests remain an endgame thing.

quote:

Should low levels be able to compete in the gold donation contest? I think yes in theory, but practically, no. There is no efficient way to gold farm without also farming massive amounts of XP, so anyone who farms for more than 3 weeks will hit level 135, so anyone who tries hard at farming will reach higher levels while farming, and then be able to grind the same gold as the max level adventurers listed above. So, I don't think it matters if grinding remains a part of the gold donation contest, because anyone who grinds gold during the contest will hit max level.

Exactly!

quote:

Is the community gold contest going to have buy ins to access the shop after it goes to ballyhoo? I would heavily petition for no, and to keep them as nonrare items for all types of players to come. I've been regularly recommending new or returning players items from the Mermazon set, and I'd be sad to see a similar community set go rare for no real reason. This would also solve the issue of lower level players and adventurers being unable to compete with guardians in the gold donation.

I am totally ok and in agreement with the community set being available to all even after the contest but I feel rewards for the top donors should be rare.

AQW

Post #: 18

11/1/2023 0:39:09

Dardiel
Member

An updating listing of the points, following Korriban's clarification and aligning it with other sentiments that I might have oversimplified by mistake:

Fact: The non-token contest is a contest of commitment to AdventureQuest, shown via effort spent*
Good Thing: A community goal for the contest.
Good Thing: Top competitors in the contest receiving additional rewards.
Problem: The contest display misleads Adventurer players into thinking they can compete in the contest.

*There have been some sentiments that certain players should have to put more effort in to achieve the same results as others; the factors most commonly cited are level, guardian status, and number of characters on the account.

Hopefully these points are more accurate so that we can have a proper base to agree on and to have a discussion that has a clear direction toward a solution we can all be reasonably happy with, rather than having a thread of just talking past each other with the goal of convincing the developers that everybody else is wrong.

Post #: 19

11/1/2023 10:33:57

Sapphire
Member

Ive been attempting to brainstorm some ideas but I think for starters, there should be two gold donation contests running concurrently. Guardians and Adventurers. If adventerurs had their own separate contest with access to the same rewards, it would fix some of the issues.

Secondly, they need a L135 gold chest option that is perhaps maybe around half the cost of the L150 one , or attempt to figure out a cost based on reality based expectations of gold for them.

Thirdly, had a random idea for gold chests.

You buy them and resell them as normal within the current system in every shop except 1, a special shop specifically designed for this idea. L150 gold chests resell for 500 tokens. L135 gold chest resell for 250 tokens. These are ideas if gold farming ends up being viewed a waste of time in lieu of changes. I think it might be good anyway, if possible.

< Message edited by Sapphire -- 11/1/2023 10:38:17 >

Post #: 20

11/1/2023 13:25:46

Dardiel
Member

Sapphire's suggestion prompted me to go double check the "Do not suggest these concepts" thread, in which I found one point that's relevant to Sapphire and one that's potentially relevant to this conversation as a whole:

- For Sapphire, they do say "Under no circumstances will there ever be a "gold to tokens" exchange or conversion. Please do not suggest that z-token items (including houses) should be able to be purchased with gold."
- For general discussion, I also found this - "We regret it, but there must be incentives to become a guardian, and every lost incentive is less reason to upgrade -- making it harder for AE to stay afloat to provide this content at all."

It might be a bit much to go off of rules set were last updated 10 years ago, but at a minimum if those are to be followed I think there must be the question of whether the contest is intended to be an incentive to become guardian and compete.

Post #: 21

11/1/2023 19:38:11

Sapphire
Member

Ultimately, I agree with the statement regarding guardianship and the need to have incentive to guardianize. This is partially why I am a bit amazed as to why there's not a recognition of this very concept here.

That said, I can concede what we are talking about is an issue that happens once per year. I think giving adventurers their own contest that runs concurrently almost completely eliminates much of the issues if you're comparing them vs guardians. There will be zero way to solve the issue with low level inclusion w/o essentially screwing over gold farmers. There needs to be incentive here, too.

In regards to the "do not suggest this" part, sorry, but it's old and times change. If they're going to dissolve the need to farm gold, it's a mistake. If they're heckate bent on keeping this community prizes only, they're going to need to create other incentive to keep players playing and stay engaged with the game. I think this might help.

Post #: 22

11/1/2023 21:38:15

CH4OT1C!
Member

I think that it's worth highlighting there are more reasons to get involved in the Gold contest beyond simply acquiring the exclusive rewards. This includes pure generosity, which was almost the sole motivator behind Kibbles and Gold donations before it transitioned to the modern format. Nonetheless, this thread focuses upon its material rewards and, given the views expressed here thus far, it's worth concentrating on personal motivations. It's perfectly valid to hold such motivations for the contest e.g.,

quote:

I won't speak for everyone but I personally do not care about seeing my name up there on some generosity list. They could hide the list or take my name out, I'll donate if there's something good in it for me either way. I'm selfish, as are alot of other people, I do it for the rewards, not to show others I'm being generous and I don't see anything wrong with wanting something in return for the efforts being put in.

Indeed, as in my previous post, I maintain that individuals making large-scale efforts to store Gold for the contest should expect to reap the benefits. The problem I have with many of the arguments being made on this thread, however, is that they aren't logically consistent with this viewpoint.

For example, multiple individuals argue low-level players and Adventurers should be excluded. Some for practical reasons:

quote:

Should low levels be able to compete in the gold donation contest? I think yes in theory, but practically, no. There is no efficient way to gold farm without also farming massive amounts of XP, so anyone who farms for more than 3 weeks will hit level 135, so anyone who tries hard at farming will reach higher levels while farming, and then be able to grind the same gold as the max level adventurers listed above.

...and others as a matter of principle:

quote:

I'm not concerned about "low-level players". If a player is low level either due to 1. Being new 2. Lack of drive to play 3. Real life obstacles prevents it… Then I'm sorry, tough luck. Attempting to cater to players who don't play much I find to be asinine. The game isn't a charity event and The Gold dono event is about dedication and availability to play, really.

quote:

I'd argue that level should matter. These donation contests have always been an endgame thing. I mean, why should anyone spend copious amounts of gold on something completely random unless you're already at endgame with nothing else to spend on?

As with motivation, it's perfectly fine to hold this kind of elitist view on who should be able to compete. However, this stance contradicts rewarding effort. My calculations have already proven that Adventurers and lower-levelled players have to work considerably harder to obtain a lesser (or even no) payoff. While I take issue with some of @Grace Xisthrith's calculations, they only further reinforce that viewpoint. While possible, they themselves admit doing so would be "totally crazy", even when factoring in storage boxes and max-cap Gold accumulation. The old system, therefore, does not reward their efforts. Some might argue that this is fine, and that low-levelled players should spend their Gold elsewhere. My response is to caution against projecting our own views on what lower-levelled players should be concentrating their efforts on.

Compounding the problem, this trend isn't even consistent between the Gold and Z-Token drives. A great irony is that, despite being the premium currency, the latter offers fewer barriers to entry for Adventurers and low-levelled players. My calculations demonstrate this.

I fully recognise the practical difficulties associated with enabling Adventurers and lower-levelled characters to compete. It’s not like we can just measure donations relative to player Gold caps, as Gold transferring to low-levelled characters could make things very messy. Indeed, it's a big reason why changing to the new system makes sense. Running separate contests doesn't solve the problem of lower-levelled players. Nonetheless, this discussion has never been about rewarding player effort across the board. It's about whether (and how much) the efforts of max-level, paying players are weighted against the efforts of non-paying, lower-levelled characters. A consensus (or decision) on this is sorely needed.

A large proportion of the responses on this thread have also been devoted to further rewarding and incentivising larger donators. I assume this is primarily for the event that the new system is retained. And, under those circumstances, I agree that some form of incentive would be a good idea. Keeping consistent with rewarding effort, it only makes sense. However, to answer a question directly asked of me:

quote:

So are you suggesting top donors can get exclusive rewards too that aren't purely cosmetic and the rest can unlock community rewards?

No. I'd prefer them to remain cosmetic. This is for the same reason I don't support @Sapphire's idea:

quote:

I think it was more or less shot down, but yes I do feel like a daily top 5 or 10 or 15 or something prize for top gold donators for that day would provide incentive and fun. I just don't see solely a community prize paving the way to reach goals, unless the items were pre-made, info subs posted, and the items were so good that everyone makes a push to obtain it. People aren't going to donate massive amounts out of the goodness of their hearts. Let's be real.

A daily prize is a huge amount of additional effort on top of the already considerable outlay necessary to host a donation contest to begin with. Not only that, but this contest runs alongside Adventurer and Guardian giftbox sets during the single busiest period of the year, when I would also hope the staff have some sort of opportunity to have time to themselves. I'd still take issue even if we had more leeway (as @Korriban Gaming rightly points out, donation contest items are also exclusives), but it's particularly problematic given the circumstances. Cosmetics offer a level of exclusivity without the same level of investment. Of course, there are downsides, but I think it's a better compromise.

AQ	Post #: 23

11/1/2023 21:41:19

Korriban Gaming
Banned

quote:

- For Sapphire, they do say "Under no circumstances will there ever be a "gold to tokens" exchange or conversion. Please do not suggest that z-token items (including houses) should be able to be purchased with gold."
- For general discussion, I also found this - "We regret it, but there must be incentives to become a guardian, and every lost incentive is less reason to upgrade -- making it harder for AE to stay afloat to provide this content at all."

Agree with both of these.

quote:

This is partially why I am a bit amazed as to why there's not a recognition of this very concept here.

My thoughts exactly!

quote:

That said, I can concede what we are talking about is an issue that happens once per year. I think giving adventurers their own contest that runs concurrently almost completely eliminates much of the issues if you're comparing them vs guardians. There will be zero way to solve the issue with low level inclusion w/o essentially screwing over gold farmers. There needs to be incentive here, too.

quote:

Ive been attempting to brainstorm some ideas but I think for starters, there should be two gold donation contests running concurrently. Guardians and Adventurers. If adventerurs had their own separate contest with access to the same rewards, it would fix some of the issues.

Secondly, they need a L135 gold chest option that is perhaps maybe around half the cost of the L150 one , or attempt to figure out a cost based on reality based expectations of gold for them.

Yea and that is why I feel my idea of having 2 separate leaderboards/contests is the best way to solve the problem. Players still have to put in effort to farm gold (engagement is retained, nothing gets devalued) but everyone will be able to compete on equal footing.

quote:

If they're going to dissolve the need to farm gold, it's a mistake. If they're heckate bent on keeping this community prizes only, they're going to need to create other incentive to keep players playing and stay engaged with the game.

Agreed.

AQW

Post #: 24

11/2/2023 0:36:16

Sapphire
Member

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really don't think color custom is worth shelling out extra gold/tokens.

Anyway, my point of view certainly isn't elitist. It's just steeped in common sense. Another failed accusation. I don't gold farm. Any argument I make with the Gold donation contest isn't benefitting me. That's actually the difference between myself and other arguments. The game's old words stemming from a claiming they want players to desire to level/guardianize to gain perks was and still should be maintained. If one wants to call me elitist for agreeing with this, while incorrect, at least claim the developers (at least of old) are also. Might allow for an argument to hold water, but alas it doesn't. It lacks common sense, and only serves to benefit oneself.

I still think there needs to be something to retain gold farming motivation within this contest.

Guardians vs guardians and adventurers vs adventurers is one easy way. Why ignore this point, btw?

Post #: 25

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [AdventureQuest] >> AdventureQuest General Discussion >> Winter Gold Donation Contest

Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

Icon Legend

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY