Bannished Rogue
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quote:
in no part of this thread do you explicitly define what is meant by rogue-themed content. That is intentional as based on the 2021 The Rogue-Ranger dichotomy discussion, staff readily do not recognize Rogue as any form of a major archetype nor build. Terms are used only relate to what objectively exists in the game, that being:
• There is a class titled "Rogue" and there are enemies with the same name that mirror each other.
Ninja is much less subjective and Assassin being much more subjective as the word relates to an occupation versus a character trait.
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I presume, therefore, that your comments refer purely to aesthetics rather than gameplay. Incorrect, I would say mainly aesthetics yes, but not purely. For an item with aesthetics and a non conforming functionality isn't anything anyone realistically desires.
Fighters wouldn't use a warrior based armor if it required INT and spells and a mage wouldn't use mage like robes if it nerfed or disabled spells in favor of melee type-based attacks. Even still, I did include those potential, "slapped the name on it but it doesn't make sense" armors because the numbers were still terrible even granting this.
Typically, if you have multiple items that do the exact same thing but different aesthetics, players are going to more often than not, choose thr aesthetics most consistent with their overall theme. There will always be exceptions, but the exceptions don't make the rule.
Any entries that are either only aesthetic or functional or narrative based are only because I was attempting to be a generous as possible, as mentioned.
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The criteria is subjective Ultimately yes. While I leave it open in general to interpretation, there is a bit of common sense to be expected. Despite being somewhat subjective, if I were to place three hypothetical characters in a line:
• One clad in heavy golden armor with a massive metal weapon
• One in robes, levitating off the ground with arcane power holding a staff and magical book
• One in generally tight leather or hide, hooded, barely visible as they hug the shadows
And then asked you which one was the rogue, you would have to be extremely facetious and do a massive amount of mental gymnastics to argue that the third one wasn't the correct answer. This suggests that there are common traits associated that don't need my personal definition that someone would more than likely try to argue in bad faith against. Case-in-point:
• The terms pirate, buccaneer, nor even swashbuckler do not inherently describe what is often associated with them; yet every year more of the same themed gear is released for "talk like a pirate day".
• If I said Necromancer, is the first thought in your head a "handsome/gorgeous warrior in shining golden armor, said to be the kingdom's famed hero, most liked person, about to marry into royalty, without some form of mind control or illusion"? Probably not, yet none of that information prevents said hypothetical person from practicing necromancy.
With that being said, if someone were to make a strong arguement that maybe an item in any of the assessments are actually rogue themed, suggesting that my numbers would need to be updated, I would legitimately entertain any reasonable proposal in good faith.
Circling back, rogues, ninjas, and assassins exist in game, that is the frame of reference and what I am using to define what a Rogue is in AQ. Is there anything that could be used to associate any of these items, aesthetically, functionally, and/or narratively to those currently armors and/or enemies? For instance:
• Shii is an assassin, therefore I would associate the Academy Exuberance armors in both aesthetic and function, however this wasn't mentioned because I could not find a trend to relate this to. If you or anyone would like to argue otherwise, be my guest. If you would also like to argue that a giant magic astral gold tractor beam Leprechaun ghost is an assassin possibly because he wears a hood, I stand prepared to be proved incorrect.
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This is not an apples-to-oranges comparison-.... To therefore compare Rogue to Mage or Warrior is a false equivalency Negative. I mention warriors as the common term for what is referred to in fantasy, however I have it in direct relation to fighter as it is known in AQ. Fighter, Mage, and Rogue are classes in AQ and that is how I referr to them as, not in the sense of builds as staff do not recognize rogues as builds, therefore not a false equivalence. Especially when items mention those classes in their names and/or descriptions (i.e: paladin rider, <element> necromancer calvary, <element> bloodmage). Even if it isn't in reference to the actual class (more mental gymnastics), it is still more than can be said for rogue, ninja, or assassin.
Since the rest is bulleted, it is easy for me to associate my responses with each one if in similar format:
• That has nothing to do with the fact that a trend was identified and broken. Another way to word the trend is that "Staff will only update or work on 2 classes from the same tier at a time, but somehow keep seeming to not be those of the rogue line each time". Different words and different trend that results in the same overarching conclusion
• This again has nothing to do with the fact that a trend was identified and broken. If Staff had updated paladin, then created archer, then updated pirate, there wouldn't be a trend. This seems like a defensive position in contrast to simple empirical evidence.
• While paladin does indeed require mage class proficiency, 2/3 of the prerequisites come from the fighter line, and the only way to get to Knight is from fighter. Mage doesn't have any prerequisites. It is generally useful, but leans more towards the fighter line
• Rogues and rangers are 2 different classes and according to staff rogues aren't a build, therefore this point is not relevant as they aren't the same thing to suggest that archers creation does anything for the rogue class.
I am only going off of what's in game. Lack of clarification is due to lack of content. In fact, I consider the Frostval Merc garb not to be of the rogue line. The only reason I count it, is because it clearly has ninja vibes, and the description and function of the shield. But the armor itself mentions mercenary, which could be any class (until AQ drops it as a class *squints at Usterik*) and the description mentions being a "fighter that's used to the shadows". Like I mentioned in the analysis, I was being generous. I think a good way to circumvent this issue is if items were aesthetically, functionally, and narratively rogue-line-themed. However, I am not suggesting anything, my suggestions are in the suggestions section, all this is is empirical data. If it sounds bad, maybe something should be done.
We may be due for a frostval giftbox with a spellcaster lean. However, this trend analysis only functions as strongly as it does because of the overwhelming lack of items from multiple sources, not just one. We also lack a fighter based or rogue based lean in any frostval giftboxes so spellcaster lean isn't in any deficiency compared to the other leans. In fact, there are more spellcaster leans than there are the ghost costume's defensive lean- gain +21 blocking. Which even that, I wouldn't consider either fighter or rogue.
< Message edited by Bannished Rogue -- 10/1/2023 23:55:23 >
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