Discussion about No-drops: Where should they stand?


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3/30/2025 10:50:25

JhyShy
Member

Hello, so it is no secret that No-drops are a core part of AQ. However being in the community there have been differing ideas on where they should stand compared to the rest of the items in AQ. I figured to throw my own spin on how to make No-drops more useful to be able to stand toe to toe with other items via my Rhyworks ( 1, 2, 3). But making them had me thinking about that question even more. "Where should they stand" and "How good should they be". So with that said hopefully these questions can be answered by the staff either individually or by their unanimous decision. And I'd also love to hear the community's thoughts on their opinions on the questions I'll be laying down and how they think the No-drops should be.

1. Is the thought or notion that No-drops should be okay at best come from the staff back then or is this mostly from player consensus?

2. Should No-drops not be allowed to have skills?

3. Should lean changing be allowed for No-drops or should they only stick to one lean? (For example, being able to change the lean for Ultra guardian plate from FO to FD independently in a hub like the guardian tower the same way you can change the no drop's element)

4. To continue from the last question, should no-drops be separated from builds and put into themes instead? (For example in my Rhyworks, where lean changing was possible, armors aren't built upon the main stats but are built on themes and mechanics, a warrior can use Deft armor of AWE for example)

5. Are no-drop wands, and bows off the table?

6. Should a No-drop tome exist? And would it be possible?

7. Has elementalizing no-drops always been a guardian only feature? If not, would it be possible for adventurers to have it as well? Even just for the weapons

8. What armor right now would be a good benchmark on how good No-drops should be?

I'd love to hear about others opinions and how you would improve upon no-drops to put them in your desired spot of power and item spot.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION TO PRESSURE THE STAFF INTO A NO-DROP UPDATE.
This thread is made to know the thought process of the staff and players opinions on the no-drops so staff can see the opinions of players on the subject in one place.

Post #: 1

3/30/2025 14:22:22

CH4OT1C!
Member

To briefly run through some of my own opinions:

(1) Putting aside whether the notion originates with the staff or the community, I think no-drops should be closer to "ok" rather than incredible. I definitely think there's an incentive to make them good so that players purchase Guardian. With that said, they can't be top of the line, otherwise players wouldn't be incentivised to play quests for non-Battleon gear.
(2) Yes, if it helps to improve them.
(3) No. We have different no-drops for that.
(4) We have one set for FO (Ultraguardian) and one set for FD (Awe). I think this distinction is sufficient (provided we get a Spellcaster version too).
(5) I certainly hope not. We should have Bow/Wand versions of ALL no-drop weapons.
(6) No. We can cover FD mages with a wand.
(7) It's a great incentive for Adventurers to buy Guardian, so I'd be against it.
(8) Fat and Tacky Santa. Modification to your standard attack + a decent skill should be perfectly sufficient in terms of complexity.

The most important thing in my opinion would be tome/wand versions. The existing no-drops aren't necessarily great, but at least those builds have no-drops.

_____________________________

Post #: 2

3/30/2025 15:14:06

Red Blood
Member

(1.) They shouldn't be the top of the line although a decent bit of effort should be used to keep them in the good enough category at least with the main standard no drops. Ideally they all would all be made with modern game play in mind as I can tell you Steel plate's mono hit kills it in boss content given warriors lack 100 procs outside a retired standard to give it more hits. Granted going back to adjust all of them would be a major project so likely best to focus on just the basics vs going after every temp armor.
(2.) All for them having skills even if it's something like an Mp barrier, or an sp attack that doesn't break any molds.
(3.) May as well just craft a personal no drop vs watering it down to be generic to fit all play styles with a lean swap if that is the lone change.
(4.) Just provide a spellcaster lean option for everyone and we should be good.
(5.) Let everyone carry what should be their basic gear outside a starter tome. Also provides more rp if you don't need to fully compromise a character idea due to needing to carry a weapon that sticks out as not belonging.
(6.) It would be an interesting experiment but the amount of scaling attached to that weapon+ spells could be an issue let alone deciding what to fill it in with.
(7.) Could always offer a sort of trial run of it akin to travel passes, but also make it not so easy to redeem/ put it on a cool down to get them hooked. Little taste of another Guardian feature, but the downside is big enough to tempt a purchase. Up to the team if coding all that would be worth it though.
(8.) Quester's Heavy gunner wouldn't be a bad armor to look at for the idea of a utility skill, and attack one although the attack could certainly use more hits to deal with caps+ should look at the equipped weapon for stats.

AQW

Post #: 3

3/30/2025 16:42:34

Yozai
Member

I wish we could get a building for our houses, where we could buy temp gear for it.
So we could go to said building and equip it, just like we can eqiup the horse armors in the stables.

Ive never been a big fan of no drops, aside from UGS would love a bow/wand version of that.

Else just some more lean options.

Post #: 4

3/30/2025 20:16:24

ming shuen
Member

I support nivp's idea of the Tome of Awe and Wand / Spoon of Awe respectively. Meanwhile, if y'all could do a SC Armour as a no-drop, that would be pretty lit.

Post #: 5

3/30/2025 21:07:30

NightofLight
Member

1. I think No Drops should be usuable but not overbearing making them to good would make future item design harder but thats kind of the case with most items in general not a no drop only thing.
2.i think No Drops should be allowed to have skills we technically have a few with skills like Armor of Awe and Black Dragon Rider
3.I would keep them to 1 lean just let there be multiple options of FO/FD/SC armors even if they are temps.
4.Destinct leans for armor types is fine tbh Ultraguardian covers FO, Armor of Awe covers FD just need a SC option you can use no matter your Mainstat.
5.Warpforce has a 100 proc Gun can probably just port it over and a Wand could maybe compress a spell while having a proc chance on Attack.
6.Wand should be good enough, don't need a tome.
7.I think its Guardian only as a incentive to become a Guardian therefore I would respect it. Could maybe make the Adventurer nodrops FO/FD/SC though so they arent super far behind.
8.Honestly a Basic armor with a usuable skill would probably be enough for me and about 3 hits on Attack.

Bonus. One Idea I had was to rework the Rider armors to make them more like Black Dragon Rider, have them cover a lean maybe Pegasid or Unicorn could become SC and compress a basic Spell and maybe Nightmare Rider could be FO and cover a basic Weapon Skill or Elelock. Also would fix up Black Dragon Rider to use the correct SP cost for Melee/Ranged its using Mage costs despite checking weapontype.

Post #: 6

3/31/2025 12:49:23

Dardiel
Member

quote:

1. Is the thought or notion that No-drops should be okay at best come from the staff back then or is this mostly from player consensus?

I don't know the factual answer to who solidified the idea, but I think it's good design to give the player one set of gear that's solid but not exciting.

quote:

2. Should No-drops not be allowed to have skills?

I think 1-2 skills that are simple and generally useful would be a positive, like basic "weapon skill that spends 50% melee for a status" level of depth.

quote:

3. Should lean changing be allowed for No-drops or should they only stick to one lean? (For example, being able to change the lean for Ultra guardian plate from FO to FD independently in a hub like the guardian tower the same way you can change the no drop's element)

I think lean changing in general is a bit funky so I would oppose it in any situation where it's possible to just make one armor for each lean. I could support some kind of lean-swapping nodrop if the lean swap is given proper cost rather than being a 1/battle toggle but that seems like more of a pain than just letting there be a nodrop of each lean.

quote:

4. To continue from the last question, should no-drops be separated from builds and put into themes instead? (For example in my Rhyworks, where lean changing was possible, armors aren't built upon the main stats but are built on themes and mechanics, a warrior can use Deft armor of AWE for example)

Assuming the lean identity of each armor is unique enough in practice, I imagine that they wouldn't need any extra designs to separate them.

quote:

5. Are no-drop wands, and bows off the table?

I think those would be important to FD nodrops, so I would hope they're an option.

quote:

6. Should a No-drop tome exist? And would it be possible?

I imagine there's room for an interesting debate on "should mana recovery in the nodrop slot be allowed"; I could see arguments in either direction so I have no strong opinion at the moment.

quote:

7. Has elementalizing no-drops always been a guardian only feature? If not, would it be possible for adventurers to have it as well? Even just for the weapons

I'm on board with elementalizing staying a Guardian QoL feature.

quote:

8. What armor right now would be a good benchmark on how good No-drops should be?

I think basically any armor that comes out and makes people go "it's solid but not optimal", like I mentioned above about skills; doing generically good standalone things rather than being anything to build around.

Post #: 7

3/31/2025 14:29:57

Zennistrad
Member

It used to be that subraces for Guardians could fill the niche of a no-drop armor with strong skills - I still use the Werewolf form for my Paladin warrior character as his Earth armor. Spellcasters do seem to be left particularly in the dust though, with the Vampire subrace being pretty meh compared to newer spellcaster lean armors.

The Blade of Awe is mostly fine, SP Vampire is quite strong when paired with the right armors (Werewolf in particular again), and PowerWord Die circumvents the usual issue of triggering specials on weapon-based skills by just making it an auto-win if it does. The Staff of Awe I think could be mildly tweaked to better support casters, but the Dagger and Spear are good as well.

I also think that no-drop armors could stand to be updated slightly with their own skills, with Ultraguardian being more offensively-inclined and Armor of Awe being defensive. My general idea is something like:

quote:

Mighty Armor of Awe: Defensive lean, takes a -5% damage penalty on weapon attacks to grant minor regeneration. Comes with a quick-cast healing spell that costs SP and scales with END.

Deft Armor of Awe: Defensive lean, takes +5/1.4% damage to grant a minor MRM boost. Comes with a skill that costs SP and boosts blocking for a turn, and grants an effect that heals on block.

Insightful Armor of Awe: Same as it currently is, except it also gets -3 MRM to gain minor mana regeneration each turn.

Mighty Ultraguardian Plate: Offensive lean, takes a penalty to blocking to deal slightly increased damage with weapon attacks. Comes with a toggle skill that switches your standard attack to four hits and grants a small chance to Daze. If elementalized, the skill also locks your attack to your armor element and grants elecomp to damage.

Deft Ultraguardian Leathers: Takes increased damage to get +3 MRM. Comes with an SP skill that grants you DefBoost for that turn (not quickcast), and then unleashes a weapon attack on your next turn with increased damage based on how many hits you dodged. If elementalized, the counterattack is locked to your armor's element, and the skill gets an elecomp reduction to SP cost.

Insightful Ultraguardian Robes: Spellcaster-lean armor. Gives a penalty to weapon damage to regenerate MP when attacking with a weapon. Has an SP toggle which causes spells to inflict Elevuln. If not elementalized, the Elevuln is omni-elemental, otherwise it's Elevuln of your armor's element. Elevuln is stronger when elementalized.

There are going to be many stronger options for every element compared to elementalized equipment for all of these, but I think with something like this the no-drops will be strong enough that there's reason to use them.

Post #: 8

4/1/2025 12:11:07

KhalJJ
Member

quote:

1. Is the thought or notion that No-drops should be okay at best come from the staff back then or is this mostly from player consensus?

Unsure on origins, but my 2c is most people, myself included, think no-drops probably shouldn't be top tier, at least initially. Having said that, something like BoA with a lengthy quest association I'd be happy to see as BiS, and I feel it is this for some specific purposes currently, but perhaps not enough.

quote:

2. Should No-drops not be allowed to have skills?

I think so, that'd be fine. Agree with other sentiments here of, not too many though.

quote:

3. Should lean changing be allowed for No-drops or should they only stick to one lean? (For example, being able to change the lean for Ultra guardian plate from FO to FD independently in a hub like the guardian tower the same way you can change the no drop's element)

This seems good, for player flexibility. Just lean-swap whilst in the armor would be too much imo.

quote:

4. To continue from the last question, should no-drops be separated from builds and put into themes instead? (For example in my Rhyworks, where lean changing was possible, armors aren't built upon the main stats but are built on themes and mechanics, a warrior can use Deft armor of AWE for example)

Eh, I do not mind no-drops being fairly build specific. It could be cool if they were themed/build-agnostic as stated, but I wouldn't want this to to get in the way of good no-drop theming and could take more work.

quote:

5. Are no-drop wands, and bows off the table?

Bows would certainly good, wands I don't know about.

quote:

6. Should a No-drop tome exist? And would it be possible?

I think, no, a tome seems too specialised. Unless it was only a very specific no-drop that you had to unlock access to, like a Tome of Awe, but I struggle to see that working nicely

quote:

7. Has elementalizing no-drops always been a guardian only feature? If not, would it be possible for adventurers to have it as well? Even just for the weapons

Unsure, but I do lean on the side of keeping this to guardians.

quote:

8. What armor right now would be a good benchmark on how good No-drops should be?

Hm good question. Something like Typhon Shard seems like it might have too much going on, but if you want it to actually be a viable option its going to have to be around that.

Maybe I'll add other thoughts later

Post #: 9

4/7/2025 21:19:23

Grace Xisthrith
Member

I think no drops should be could be solid, like an armor with a damage skill or status skill, but not an armor like Winter Warden, which has skills and toggles. Basically two effects would be my limit. I think lean swapping and element swapping for all players is a great feature, Lorithia knows we could use more custom coverage. Adding more options (100 Proc magic and ranged) seems nice, I think a tome might not be worth the dev time, but maybe it would be if they're willing.
To compare it to an armor, I'd say something like the Mogloween Fairies, has a skill and something they do, but not super amazing or unique (although Mogloween Fairies are a bad example because few things do defloss, but the idea remains)

AQ	Post #: 10

4/8/2025 7:14:32

Jakau Ryuu
Member

A full-on tome might be a bit much for the no-drop slot (unless it was more "limited" in some fashion? fewer options and fewer frills or something? hmm), but assuming each no-drop set got a wand, having one of those wands comp a spell could get you part of the way there without being "overly-optimal". Maybe the corresponding mage-inclined no-drop armor could comp some form of mana-recovery toggle as well? Not a full-on turn-for-mana "spell" like tomes get, but like... something akin to Rejuvenating Necklace or a tweaked, toggled form of the High Communicant's Judgment effect (though less powerful than either, of course).

EDIT: (I suppose at this point I've accidentally started outlining a pitch for a "modernized" version of the UG Robes, oops.)

In general, no-drops should certainly be good - if they're going to be "forced" on you they should at least not feel like "dead slots" next to everything else in your active inventory (part of the reason bows and wands should 100% be a thing imo), and the ones you have to unlock via quests should feel like something you went on a quest to acquire - but they certainly shouldn't be top-of-the-line, hyper-optimized, all-the-frills gear either. Unless, y'know, we get some difficult endgame quest(s) at some point that could "justify" even stronger versions as a reward, but that might still be a bit much*.

*Unless we got temp empowered no-drops from a quest, a la the Dragon Blade? Thoughts for later I suppose....

< Message edited by Jakau Ryuu -- 4/8/2025 7:50:17 >

AQW

Post #: 11

4/12/2025 6:18:46

JhyShy
Member

Do you guys feel if ever the No drops gain skills they should have elecomp? I agree with the idea of the no-drops having one toggle skill and one damaging skill, it's simple but very good and makes them highly useable.

What do you guys feel about no drop weapons having skill in them? For example, the ultra guardian scythe instead of a proc instead gains a clickable skill as its MC

Post #: 12

4/12/2025 11:40:06

battlesiege15
Member

1. Is the thought or notion that No-drops should be okay at best come from the staff back then or is this mostly from player consensus?

I mean, the guardian plate, AoA, and UG sets were some of the highlights to upgrade back in the day including in Ballyhoo videos. They're always a slot (minus temporary slots), so I think they should be at least above avgerage.

2. Should No-drops not be allowed to have skills?

I think that they should 100% have skills. It's nice that they have some effects built more towards respective builds.

3. Should lean changing be allowed for No-drops or should they only stick to one lean? (For example, being able to change the lean for Ultra guardian plate from FO to FD independently in a hub like the guardian tower the same way you can change the no drop's element)

I think keeping them 1 lean is fine because it's either FO with UG or FD with AoA. Otherwise, UG and AoA would not be very different if you could continuously switch between the two.

4. To continue from the last question, should no-drops be separated from builds and put into themes instead? (For example in my Rhyworks, where lean changing was possible, armors aren't built upon the main stats but are built on themes and mechanics, a warrior can use Deft armor of AWE for example)

I mean, you can still use Deft AoA with a warrior. I think they all kind of have a theme but could definitely get a re-work.

5. Are no-drop wands, and bows off the table?

I will let staff speak on this, but I know the Bows have been a very commonly requested update. Maybe throw in a wand as well for 100% magic version.

6. Should a No-drop tome exist? And would it be possible?

I personally don't think so. Part of the appeal of the BoA is it's many iconic skills and even prioritizing ones you want. I think a tome would be too much. Also, trying to customize 9 different element settings sounds like a lot of work and probably data/space.

7. Has elementalizing no-drops always been a guardian only feature? If not, would it be possible for adventurers to have it as well? Even just for the weapons

The customization and no level penalty for the equipment is one of the highlights of the guardian no-drops so I don't think that should change.

8. What armor right now would be a good benchmark on how good No-drops should be?

I think both UG and AoA need an update in terms of their functionality and effects.
- UG: Make it more of a powerhouse with maybe Berserker type with more damage with lower health, etc
- AoA: Defensive with some healing properties.

Also, any chance we can make the AoA fully color customizable again? :(

AQW

Post #: 13

4/12/2025 16:55:09

neswii
Member

quote:

1. Is the thought or notion that No-drops should be okay at best come from the staff back then or is this mostly from player consensus?

Obviously, I can't speak on behalf of the staff, but the guardian-exclusive no-drops is (in my opinion) one of the biggest incentives for players to upgrade, so improving them would help with that expectation - or at least doesn't feel lackluster compared to modern armors.

quote:

2. Should No-drops not be allowed to have skills?

It would help with making the items more interesting, for sure. It wouldn't need to be anything complex, just something for players to be able to use. It’s been brought up several times in this thread, but something as straightforward as a mainstat drive on the shield would be a slam dunk.

quote:

3. Should lean changing be allowed for No-drops or should they only stick to one lean? (For example, being able to change the lean for Ultra guardian plate from FO to FD independently in a hub like the guardian tower the same way you can change the no drop's element)

It would depend on how they're implemented and how useful they would be for different builds, especially with warrior lean and spellcasters both being able to run FD, and then FO and SC respectively. That being said, I think being able to swap leans mid-fight (like Eternal Champion) would be too much; I think it should be limited to how no-drop alignment is handled currently.

quote:

4. To continue from the last question, should no-drops be separated from builds and put into themes instead? (For example in my Rhyworks, where lean changing was possible, armors aren't built upon the main stats but are built on themes and mechanics, a warrior can use Deft armor of AWE for example)

I'm all for the ability to make the no-drops as widely applicable as possible, but having some direction is good.

quote:

5. Are no-drop wands, and bows off the table?

Speaking as someone that has a bow character, I'm absolutely on board for 100-proc no-drops. Being forced to run compression/imbues because there's literally no other option feels a lot worse than 0-procs choosing between compression or swinging with their no-drop.

quote:

6. Should a No-drop tome exist? And would it be possible?

Speaking as someone that has a tome character, I don't feel too strongly for it, especially given how complex tomes are. It would be nice though.

quote:

7. Has elementalizing no-drops always been a guardian only feature? If not, would it be possible for adventurers to have it as well? Even just for the weapons

Like with what I said with #1, this was another incentive for people to upgrade, so I'm okay with keeping it like that.

quote:

8. What armor right now would be a good benchmark on how good No-drops should be?

Fungibushi, minus the lean change. A flavor effect, a generic skill (or elelock in this case), and maybe another skill, depending on how much we want to push no-drops as a whole.

< Message edited by neswii -- 4/23/2025 14:59:17 >

Post #: 14

4/21/2025 17:42:00

GwenMay
Member

1. I don't know where no drops being bad originated, but I think the general sense is they should be good enough to be worthwhile to use, yet not too good that they are ever best in slot or replace high end gear. Currently the no drops are a bit too weak (probably because they just fell behind in the meta) and likely need a decent buff.

2. Yes, but bland ones. For example, I would like a no drop armor with an elecomp skill that matches the player's armor element, but have it just be that without anything special. This would let the armor gapfill for the element without being too great.

3. No, we already have FO and FD sets with distinct identity. Changing your lean is just changing your no drop. I would like to see a spellcaster lean no drop eventually though - maybe ultraguardian robes?

4. I don't think the no drop armor or shields are overly tied to stats right now. They should have themes, sure, but nothing too complex.

5. I hope not! I'd love to see no drop bows and wands.

6. It'd be cool if staff had the time and capacity to make one. Just have a standard tome with a normal damage spell, efficient damage spell, and mp regen, with the spells' element following your no drop element. I think tomes are distinct enough from wands that a no drop wand wouldn't replace a no drop tome (especially for my all tome builds), but a no drop tome would probably be the most intensive to make (requiring staff to animate spells and make the weapon) so I think it's rather unlikely.

7.Yes, and it should remain that way. Like others have said, it's a big (and traditional) incentive for buying guardianship. That said, I would like to see guardians be able to elementize each item separately (perhaps at the cost of the set's FSB if it has one), and/or to pick the weapon element when the armor and shield are set to neutral (currently, setting your no drops to neutral makes your weapon deal earth damage).

8. For armors? Samurai Warlord O-Yoroi (but FO or FD, not MO). It just has one skill that pays 100% melee in sp to do a 200% melee attack that follows weapon element, i.e., the most generic and bland skill (that's still useful as a gapfiller) ever. I give this same skill to the no drops, but make the skill's element match the no drop elements and give it some (but not a lot) of elecomp to compensate.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 15

4/21/2025 22:01:30

Bannished Rogue
Member

I tried to address this twice (technically 3 times) a long time ago...:

The first time got moved here

Then I reposted and had a much more extensive discussion here

I will say this as I still believe it and no I will not argue about it if you mention it, but I still believe there should be some purehuman bonus to compensate for the lack of a subrace which provides an ADDITIONAL free 10 skill no drop class armor. There is practically no benefit to not having a subrace and the only drawback to having a subrace is so negligible that its practically nonexistent. My belief would be that the solution would be to buff the standard no drop to compensate for the lack.

But to answer your list of questions:
1. The concept of "just okay" is subjective. No-drops should scale, a precedence has been set with the subrace no drop class armors and the rest should scale.
However, I believe that more universally useful an item is, the less powerful it should be, and vice versa-ly; the less universally useful an item is, the more powerful it should be in the appropriate area. Example on a 0-10 scale of power (0 = weakest, 10 = strongest); numbers are arbitrary:
1. Knight armor (generally useful) = 5 power
2. Dragonslayer armor:
2a. Against dragons/wyverns/drakle/etc = 6-10
2b. Against everything else = 1-4

No-drops are currently designed to be generally useful, therefore I do not think it should be the best armor ever, just like the subrace no-drops aren't the best ever.

2. Yes, they should be "allowed" to, but I'm not saying they "must". However, one's without should be appropriately comped accordingly to ensure player expression and preference isn't de-centivized due to blatant "meta". Some I've suggested:
• Stat drive
• Fullset bonus
• lean swap

3. I offered the same suggestion; it is a way forward, one that I personally agree with. My personal opinion is to prioritize player expression (essentially, items being blatantly better than others should be extremely rare); on multiple thematic levels, I don't like the GUARDian/ultraGUARDian (root word being "guard" which thematically equates with defense) sets being exclusively FO and the Armor of Awe (which came into existence well after the Blade of Awe, which is a weapon and thematically equates to offense) being exclusively FD. For the two base no-drops, I think it would be appropriate to have a lean swap option. However, I don't assert it to be the only way balance can be achieved. Nor would I simply want that for every no-drop as a quick hand-waved excuse to suggest something is balanced and equally useful. Therefore, other no-drops don't need to nor should automatically have this feature, this is reliant on the premise of there being a good quantity and variety to choose from.

4. Stats = mechanics so I'm not sure what you mean not stats but mechanics. However, I may be misunderstanding, but I think there is enough variety to suggest that you can find and get whatever no drop corresponds to your current playstyle and what you want. And just like any armor, if your stats are aligned to the armor's strengths, then you will find more effective use out of it, but that's not stopping you from using a different version/variant even if your stats aren't optimal to it.

5. I don't think they should be off the table.

6. I'm indifferent on a standard no-drop tome, though I do question practicality and feasibility of such and what spells would be contained within.

7. I'm indifferent to this topic.

8. The no-drop subrace class armors. Like I said, I don't believe no-drops should automatically have skills, but if they don't they should be comped accordingly so as to be competitive with those that do.

< Message edited by Bannished Rogue -- 4/22/2025 0:27:27 >

AQW

Post #: 16

4/22/2025 22:21:25

dizzle
Member

I’ll go ahead and drop my thoughts as well since I do believe a rework of UG/AoA is overdue.

1. I also am not sure where this notion first started but I think they need to be good. I understand this is subjective but we are assumed to have complete elemental coverage and a weapon, shield, and armor are forced into our inventory whether we want it or not. Therefore we’re either forced to use the no drops or forced to use compression items. These items need to be good enough so that the general recommendation to every new player isn’t “don’t use the no drops.” This is slightly exaggerated but you get what I’m saying. I will say having sub races included in the no drop armor slot helps out a bunch though

2. I don’t see why not. AoA has a skill already. IMO they should/could prob all have a skill and a passive as a baseline. It’s AQ 2025

3. I wouldn’t mind a Neutral/FD or Neutral/FO or Neutral/SC Lean just to keep it simple yet still offering a bit of variance without going overboard

4. I agree w Dardiels comment:

quote:

Assuming the lean identity of each armor is unique enough in practice, I imagine that they wouldn't need any extra designs to separate them

5. They shouldn’t be, I think we’re long overdue for a 100 proc no drop

6. I don’t see why not. The tome and wand could be combined into one. It doesn’t have to be a complex tome, could just be like zardwarts, costs mp on the “standard” wand attack, and also has a regen MP option which would be huge for mages (although would be probably create come balance concerns around assumptions? Idk I could see it getting messy)

7. Similar to my response to the 1st point, these no drops are forced into our inventory, guardian and adventurer alike. At the very least adventurers should be able to elementalize their gear.

8. For FO something like Winter Dryad, for SC something like Chaos Slayer Cleric, and FD something like Lazer Blazer minus the stat boost. Don’t focus so much on the effects but more so just a simple passive and a skill that fits either FO/FD/SC lean.

< Message edited by dizzle -- 4/22/2025 22:24:43 >

AQ	Post #: 17

4/23/2025 12:01:29

JhyShy
Member

Adding my own thoughts here cause why not

1. Is the thought or notion that No-drops should be okay at best come from the staff back then or is this mostly from player consensus?
- Honestly, since we're forced to have them, they should be in the department of "Good". Especially UG and AoA since they come from quests and I feel should be treated as such (Proper MCs and mechanics)

2. Should No-drops not be allowed to have skills?
- Absolutely, this is 2025 AQ, for me ideally no drops should have a toggle + skill as do other armors, I don't feel it's too much since early game and mid game players can grab good items at those stages as well.

3. Should lean changing be allowed for No-drops or should they only stick to one lean? (For example, being able to change the lean for Ultra guardian plate from FO to FD independently in a hub like the guardian tower the same way you can change the no drop's element)
- I added this because it would have been cool to have like different loadouts on characters with the same stat distribution, or for people who want the mechanics and the art despite being in a different build.

4. To continue from the last question, should no-drops be separated from builds and put into themes instead? (For example in my Rhyworks, where lean changing was possible, armors aren't built upon the main stats but are built on themes and mechanics, a warrior can use Deft armor of AWE for example)
- Same answer as the last one

5. Are no-drop wands, and bows off the table?
- We should absolutely have these, especially since FD Rangers are getting more support nowadays. And if FD rangers get support, wand mages should too.

6. Should a No-drop tome exist? And would it be possible?
- I see a lot of people being indifferent from this and I can understand, but it would have been cool to have a tome containing old spells from Warlic or reused animations from elsewhere (Like I did in my Rhywork). But if this isn't feasible. It'd be nice if the wand contained a spell and a mana regen option. If the mana regen option isn't possible, then I guess the spell can do.

P.S in my opinion there should be an alternative staff weapon to be a spellbooster to compliment an SC Ultra guardian Robes

7. Has elementalizing no-drops always been a guardian only feature? If not, would it be possible for adventurers to have it as well? Even just for the weapons
- I agree with Red here, it's a bit of a shame for me to see people want elementalization be a guardian only feature but I can understand. But what he said was pretty smart, so here is my take: Go to warlic to create another whimsical creature like the pet rock like you do for Valencia. Give that to Nimrod and adventurers will have a one time access to elementalization, there they still have to pay the elementalization fee and once they pay only their WEAPON and SHIELD are elementalized, since in my experience as an adventurer it's kind of mandated for you to use compression armor (Since the neutral steel plate is useless), but shields and weapons being elementalized are such a good quality of life improvement for adventurers. Once the elementalize however, they lose the FSB, since the steel plate is neutral but the weapon and shield are different elements. This elementalization lasts until they logout, and if they want to re-elementalize, they'll have to go back to warlic and create the same whimsical creature again to give to Nimrod and pay another fee. Therefore, giving them the benefit and quality of life of elementalization but gives them enough steps and hoops to get there, hypothetically giving them the want for guardianship.

8. What armor right now would be a good benchmark on how good No-drops should be?
- A good benchmark for me as others have said are: Mogloween Fairies and Quester's Heavy Gunner (A personal pick of mine would be Master Fighter). Both have toggles and attacking skills, they aren't insane but given the right mechanics they can be extremely useful.

A mini Rhywork perhaps, giving more basic and fixed ideas would be:

quote:

UG Plate (FO) - Skill: Weapons Based Attack that follows weapon element. Toggle: Locks element to armor element (If neutral, does Omni elemental and gives the 132/109 boost) and sacrifices SP to boost damage.
UG Leathers (FO) - Skill: Efficient Weapons Based Attack that follows armor element, sacrifices damage for +Bth. Toggle: Gives SP for Celerity
UG Robes (SC) - Spell: Normal spell that follows armor element. Toggle: Gives SP and Player turn to gain Spellboost for 2 turns.
UG Shield - Gives +Mainstat based on Weapon held (Not letting this one go)

(All FD)
Mighty AoA - Skill: QC Omni Elemental Shield that costs SP. Toggle: Locks attack to armor element, uses 3 hit animation, sacrifices SP to gain HP based on hits connected
Deft AoA - Skill: Clone of Imanoc Edoc. Toggle: Sacrifices SP to heal health based on hits missed by the opponent.
Insightful AoA - Skill: Same as the one we have right now. Toggle: Sacrifices SP to give back HP based on hits connected.
Shield of AWE - Gives -12.5 Health resist (OR Gains a toggle that reduces damage taken based on weapon Mainstat)

< Message edited by JhyShy -- 4/24/2025 9:35:51 >

Post #: 18

4/23/2025 19:33:10

Zennistrad
Member

I think there should also be some consideration given to better temporary weapons and armors, while we're at it. If no-drops can't really be "good" per se then I think there should at least be some ways of using the no-drop slot for temporary equipment, since that's a well-established mechanic that's nearly as old as the game itself.

I think the only temporary weapon currently worth using at all is Tarnished Caliburn, but that's pretty hard to find. There are ton of temporary weapons from the oldest quests in the game but almost none of them are balanced to modern standards.

AQ	Post #: 19

4/23/2025 22:54:37

ruleandrew
Member

1. Is the thought or notion that No-drops should be okay at best come from the staff back then or is this mostly from player consensus?
Guardian individual no-drop equipment should be good.

2. Should No-drops not be allowed to have skills?
Individual no-drop equipment shall be limited to just 1 skill or 1 passive.

3. Should lean changing be allowed for No-drops or should they only stick to one lean? (For example, being able to change the lean for Ultra guardian plate from FO to FD independently in a hub like the guardian tower the same way you can change the no drop's element)
No-drop armour shall stick to one lean.

4. To continue from the last question, should no-drops be separated from builds and put into themes instead? (For example in my Rhyworks, where lean changing was possible, armors aren't built upon the main stats but are built on themes and mechanics, a warrior can use Deft armor of AWE for example)
No-drop equipment must stick to builds.

5. Are no-drop wands, and bows off the table?
I would like no-drop wands and no-drop bows.

6. Should a No-drop tome exist? And would it be possible?
No-drop tome should not exist.

7. Has elementalizing no-drops always been a guardian only feature? If not, would it be possible for adventurers to have it as well? Even just for the weapons
Elementalizing no-drop equipment should not be guardian only feature. However adventure individual no-drop equipment shall be half a mastercraft bonus worse than guardian individual no-drop equipment.

8. What armor right now would be a good benchmark on how good No-drops should be?
Type-Z Necromech is a good benchmark (use 1 skill not 2 skills).

AQ	Post #: 20

4/24/2025 9:32:40

TheUnknown?
Member

Have to mostly Agree with ruleandrew. Maybe the No Drop armours can have 2 different but slightly weaker skills?

Post #: 21

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All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [AdventureQuest] >> AdventureQuest General Discussion >> Discussion about No-drops: Where should they stand?

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