=MECH= Simple weapons for a fantastical setting


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3/17/2010 4:02:27

alexmacf
Member

Most specifically, bladed ones.

Daggers, swords, katanas, Batarangs. All of these come into play in some fantasy setting or another. Let's talk about them and our experiences with them!

Personally, I'm having a difficult time getting anything real out of the extensive hours of research I'm putting into daggers. That's a problem, because my main character uses a set o double-bladed daggers as her main weapons. I know how archery works, and how swords work (so my other main is set), but double-bladed daggers I have very little idea, and there's nothing I can find on the internet, and the guy at the sword place I went to over the weekend while we were in Utah knew only about swords and katanas. I'm stuck.

Discuss, defend, and deny!~

Post #: 1

3/17/2010 16:03:23

horusmaster9
Member

I've heard of family daggers. Plus, I think the nobles of the time carried around small daggers. But I'm not sure. Not at all. I'm not very informed about these things anyway. <.<

Usually I just pop in swords and daggers. It seems to me that the latter would be easier to make just because they're smaller, but swords might be used more for its dangerous swinging capabilities (Try swinging a table and then a pencil. Which will hurt the another person more?). Those would probably be the most prominent weapons in most (or just most of my) D&D-like fantasies aside from magic and bows+arrows. :D

Katanas are just... not really meant to be in most fantastical settings, unless of course their swords evolved from simple, pointy, steel sticks of doom into the really sharp-edged, one-sided swords of even more doom. But it's probably because katanas are Japanese, and most fantastical settings take place in Europe-y places with all those castles and stuffs. A katana in the middle of that would be kind of weird, imo. <.<

Post #: 2

3/17/2010 16:24:44

Fleur Du Mal
Member

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't a dagger double-edged by default and the short-bladed weapon with only one sharp edge would be called a knife?

Personally, I'm not much of a fight-scene writer so I haven't put much effort to study weapons. I think my scarce descriptions of weapons have so far focused more on the aesthetics than on function. The one weapon-type I hope I'll never have to write into a story is a medival, brute-force sword. This is mainly because in my mind, they have little depth beyond their slashing function and they don't generally look nice and curvy. Another personal preference, no doubt. If I had the drive to do some research on weapons to put into writing, I'd probably go for the Japanese samurai weapons as find those aesthetically pleasing. In addition, there's a whole intriguing philosophy behind them that goes farther than keeping a weapon in good shape for efficient killing only.

What comes to daggers, my knowlege of it is limited to this: it's a close combat weapon (unless it's a throwing dagger) that one uses as an extension of the hand to slash the opponent without simultaneously opening up one's own defenses. Thus, in writing, describing it's reach and movement would be more restricted to that of following the hands and arms as opposed to with swords, where the blade might draw whole different routes. I don't know how visually stimulating describing the movement of a dagger can be (the arc of a moving sword might be very pretty) as a big part of its nature is in stealth and the close combat doesn't allow that much room between the fighters.

< Message edited by Fleur Du Mal -- 3/17/2010 16:26:12 >

Post #: 3

3/17/2010 21:26:51

alexmacf
Member

quote:

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't a dagger double-edged by default and the short-bladed weapon with only one sharp edge would be called a knife?

Yes, but her weapon has two double-edged blades. I'll try and scan my drawing to show you.

quote:

Katanas are just... not really meant to be in most fantastical settings, unless of course their swords evolved from simple, pointy, steel sticks of doom into the really sharp-edged, one-sided swords of even more doom. But it's probably because katanas are Japanese, and most fantastical settings take place in Europe-y places with all those castles and stuffs. A katana in the middle of that would be kind of weird, imo. <.<

Point taken. Anime and manga fantasy settings in Asian-y places probably use them, but I wouldn't actually know. And Batarangs are out of the question anywhere but the DCU.

Post #: 4

3/17/2010 21:43:46

Argeus the Paladin
Member

I believe I know what you are talking about. It's like a shorter version of Kadaj's weapon in Advent Children.

Seriously, no. Such a weapon has a double blade to be used as a parrying implement in a duel so as to hold and perhaps wrest the opponent's blade from his grasp. You wouldn't want a dagger in a melee scenario. In fact, a dagger is no more than a last-ditch or stealth weapon and not used for a long fight in any sense. Also, a double bladed weapon like that would tend to be very hard to conceal which is the selling point of dagger-type weapons.

At least try the Gladius Hispaniensis. But that's just me.

Post #: 5

3/17/2010 22:01:58

alexmacf
Member

I've actually created a fairly unique design for it, based off of pocket knives and the Rule of Cool. I'm really going to have to scan it, because it's awesome.

Post #: 6

4/1/2010 15:05:46

Alixander Fey
Member

I've always written fantasy, and yet I find myself obsessed with science fiction as of late. Because my old characters were sword-toting brutes, I had to come up with some way to tote swords in my future world, without having lightsabers. I actually had quite a bit of fun with it, and invented a couple different kinds of weapons. But because of the nature of my world, a normal sword would actually be advantageous over a shocksword or sonicstaff. (Because of the way shockswords interact with energy fields.) So I'm trying to sci-fi up a normal katana and so far I think it's pretty sweet. I enjoy it, because I get to go crazy with my imagination.

As far as real research, that's hard. XD I'd like to do it, but it's not practical, except to farm for new ideas. I love inventing things for my Sci-fi world. Even after I wrote Haven I came up with two new kinds of sword/staff/knife/hammer, and I'm hoping to add them if I write more. Plus it's great to construct battles and mechanics and tactics from the ground up. :)

Post #: 7

4/4/2010 20:52:37

UrufuHiken
Creative!

I have done a little research on various blades and blade-smithing online, but mostly I just take the weight, feel, and shape from my own limited but growing sword and dagger collection. Then I just apply whatever I know of their different fighting styles since I like the weapon to fit the personality.

My favorite, of course, would be the Japanese Katana. For similar reasons like Fleur stated; the philosophy behind the weapon an how it looks. That, and for the way it was smithed, and the style of fighting that demanded precision and speed, both grace and power. I also just like how the weapon feels and wields, which is why I've taken up kendo.

I haven't done much research on daggers other then their fighting styles. Incidentally it is difficult to wield a dagger against a sword, so any character I create that wields daggers is more prone to dodging then blocking, and maneuvering within an enemies defenses rather then overpowering them. That of course is simply natural, so I don't even know why I bothered to mention it other then to say that I am trying to study more into the styles of the fighting and, more importantly, the footwork required by that style.

And like I said before, I like the weapon to fit the personality. And I like the body to fit the personality as well... obviously I'm not going to give a Scottish Claymore (A sword designed more around brutally smashing down everything in is path over being a sharp and precise weapon that required finesse.)

Post #: 8

5/17/2010 10:04:18

Xirminator
Member

Not really an expert on weapons, and I don't really know what the double-bladed daggers you've created look like, but usually weapons like that can help disarm opponents but hooking around the enemy's blade or tangling it in some way. I know of at least one dagger-like weapon with two blades used in conjunction with a regular sword. It's job was to block and trap the enemy's weapons while the sword did the work.

Post #: 9

5/17/2010 11:37:15

Postmaster General
Member

Weapons can be a great outlet for symbolism, like a scythe or greataxe representing its wielder as a butcher or reaper.

Or a morning star symbolizing the rise to power.

When I come up with weapons, I like abstract and functional. Although, they must be set off by the other characters' use of standard weapons. For example, I had a story about a pirate who fought with an oar as a bo staff. This oar was an unusual weapon, and made even more so by the fact that all he fought carried guns, scabbards, and tridents.

Another example of these abstract weapons, are some characters I had created for the RP boards. These characters, named Wayne and Elayne, are twin tricksters who are the human children of the Norse god, Loki. Wayne and Elayne carry a magical whoopie cushion, shock buzzer, and yo-yo. While these weapons were never actually used in melee combat, they acted much like wizard's staves in that they conducted magical energy.

As far as conventional weapons go, I usually stray away from the norm. Often times, the protagonist is equipped with a sword and goes through hacking and slashing to glory. I like to start out in a very creative manner, and so try to deviate from all norms when I write.

Main characters often start out with no weapons, or small makeshift equipment if they are glory-bound.

If I am writing a story which encompasses a villain, they are usually somewhat bound to honor and have qualities of good which keep them from totally chaotic actions. These villains often carry the biggest weapon I can think of, and hardly ever actually use it. Their true weapon, is a threat.

The idea, which I borrowed from WoW, of rudimentary guns being used in a predominately medieval setting also strikes my fancy. Having a hero firing a volley of gunpowder and bullets upon the ranks of an orc horde is a very awe-inspiring vision for me.

I also enjoy the incorporation of the less notable ranged weapons: the boomerang, shuriken, throwing star, throwing knife, etc.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 10

5/17/2010 12:08:27

Red Blizzard
Lv. 100

Weapon symbolism can be an interesting thing. As each character's weapon reflects their personality in a given story, I have fun with giving my characters different weapons. Simple things such as a character who owns one black sword and one white sword can be used to drive forward a storyline or give more substance to work with.

I avoid using katanas unless there's a good reason to use them. In literature, especially modern-day novels, they're overused because of the pop-culture surrounding them and the supposed perfection in the way they're crafted. From a pure fighting standpoint, though katanas are great weapons, they're also highly specialized weapons, and there are so many situations in which they fall flat. Then I come to a dead-end when trying to write with them. For most my fight scenes, I stick to either straight, double-edged swords or other, less-used weapons such as halberds and glaives. Things that are more suitable in battle where the first strike usually wins.

Now, referring to the discussion on daggers. I've only ever had one character use twin daggers, and that was at the request of a real person who came up with the character in the first place. Even then, the daggers were a back-up weapon to the character's shortsword. A single shortsword is already so much more useful than a pair of daggers. That little extra bit of reach is often enough to incapacitate anyone coming at you with dual daggers or knives, as parrying against a blade that small with even smaller blades makes the chances of the blades making contact practically impossible. For true dual-wielding, I use longswords in my stories as the most useful in battle and sometimes twin claymores if I want to make a character more intimidating. Daggers tend to be regulated to side-weapons or stealth missions, with shortswords at the very least if you want light, fast dual-wielding.

Many times, I find myself having to equip entire armies with practical weaponry that's easy to craft and easy to train with. For this purpose, I do my best to avoid swords altogether for ordinary soldiers. Swords are hard to craft in a way that is sharp, strong, and balanced, due to the amount of metal needed. Spears work better for armies under the command of some insanely brilliant tactician or noble, while axes fit the army of a more brutal warlord. Daggers are sometimes used in these scenarios, since spears and axes are horrible for manuevering around at close quarters. Then the fun really starts with the knifing.

How do you guys mix weapons and fighting styles?

DF	Post #: 11

5/18/2010 2:30:59

alexmacf
Member

My deal with the twin daggers is it's a woman, a smallish one at that, on the run in a medieval setting. That, and her surface personality is reflected really well in her daggers. I fail at drawing, but I'll keep trying so you see what they look like.

I know a bit about swords just incidentally, from having done a little fencing and watching loads of movies with sword-fighters. I try not to go too in-depth about footwork, but I know fencers and ask them for help. I also, before and after getting their advice, act out the fights, so I know what the motions feel like.
The daggers are very difficult to write, but *so* worth it. It takes hours and hours of Googling, Wiki Walking, and clicking on every hyperlink in sight to get what I'm looking for, but when I find it, the fight scene usually falls into place.

Post #: 12

5/18/2010 3:38:43

mechquestlord
Banned

idk why noone but me and people who are on mqgalaxy know about the bow...

MQ	Post #: 13

5/18/2010 23:43:27

alexmacf
Member

As in bows and arrows? I like archery, actually; it's fun. I just suck at it.

Post #: 14

5/20/2010 22:44:03

Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat

Having done a bit of full-contact "LARP"-ing (It's not really larping, we just go to beat each other up with homemade weapons, no magic or anything or- well it's not larping.), I like to think that my knowledge of melee combat is pretty well developed.
I've found daggers to be last resort weapons, weapons of stealth and speed, or for parrying or surprise. For instance, someone with a spear or halberd may want to carry a dagger in case their weapon gets caught. However, I've also seen people use an axe in one hand and a dagger in their other, using the axe to parry or knock aside opponent's weapons, and the dagger to thrust at any opening, or vice versa, depending on the opponent's weaponry.

A dual dagger would be difficult to use in attack. I would imagine stabbing would be hampered by the second blade, and slashing may as well.
I agree with Argeus; that is, a dual bladed dagger would appear to mainly be used for parrying rather than direct attacking. Perhaps with two dual bladed daggers, one could parry with one then counter attack, but I cannot see how such a one would deal with an opponent who utilizes a shield properly.

Post #: 15

5/21/2010 22:07:56

Firefly
Lore-ian

Hmm, I've heard that it's harder to disarm a person with a dagger as opposed to a person with a sword, since daggers are smaller and harder to reach. Plus, most warriors woud be trained to defend against swords, not daggers. And then there's the fact that it's /much/ easier to hide a dagger than a sword...

But swords are still more powerful. =P Daggers are awesome as backup weapons though.

That being said, the weapons I use depend on my setting, story, and character. In one of my fantasy worlds, there is vaguely an "east" and a "west," so the people in the former tend to prefer katanas and whatnot. The people in the west would, of course, use rapiers or traditional western swords. It's only very loosely based on the concepts of east/west, allowing me some fluidity. And I didn't mind throwing around some magic and guns as well. But that's only because my world actually has the variety of settings of support this.

Recently, I had an idea where swordfights play a huge role. Every character, though none are from earth, are defined (somewhat) by their blade and fighting style. The main character represents an elegant eastern swordswoman, in style if not in personality. She uses a double-edged sword rather than a katana, but her weapon is still lighter than many characters'. By contrast, her rival fights with a heavier western sword. And another person, who has an even stronger eastern theme than the main character, does use a katana. And then there is the most timid fighter, who uses a rapier and relies on speed. Since the setting is not earth, the weapons' details are much looser, but I'll make up specific aesthetics when it's important to the story.

Not saying all those details will actually make it into the text, of course. And there are other stories where such details are not important.

AQ	Post #: 16

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