Stabilis
Member
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Okay, as promised, it has been 395 minutes since I promised to post again, so here it is: Responses for Aomont: -
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If we split stats from skills + split dext and tech from def and res + split focus from other stats + made Luck a full chance stat = dext useless. If we don't make Luck a full chance stat (as I think you suggested, correct me if you didn't), Dext would only be useful for block chance. - I have gone in depth elsewhere (specifically the Balance Discussion) about the mechanics of this suggested layout; I have not stated all I have here, but if I could I would make Dexterity a pure accuracy stat. Dexterity would determine the chance to connect for Primaries and ranged weapons (excluding Robots). Dexterity would determine the chance to block and deflect/dodge as well. Aside from accuracy I have not given the stat any other practical use.
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No cool down for strike but I would move sidearm to another stat as well. Moving to Support would be fine unless we strip Dext of its attributes as I said above - I am open for Strength to be balanced by either adding cooldown or extracting Sidearms, both do not have to occur, but I am fine with just one of the suggestions taking place, as you have conceded to letting the Sidearm move. The reason I said Strike could use cooldown, is because of the huge difference in DoT when comparing Primaries to identical ranged weapons.
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I would not split skills and stats but we could make scaling uneven someway. Take a BM for example: Strength affects primary (=Berzerker), gun and skill (Fireball). They all scale up at the same STR level what if they didn't ? What if, for example, after 82 STR you'd need to increase up to 87 to increase primary damage but to 88 for skill damage (fireball) and 89 for gun damage ? To have all of them increased 1 point, +2 stat points would need to be invested. Yes, there would be a need for different stat progression tables depending on what would be affected by it but that could help we take care of the excess points available - This is a form of diminishing, or also known as adjusting the stat progressions. I am keen to agree with adjusting the table as I find that the equivalence between 1 stat point for offence does not equal 1 stat point for defence. I would like to change stat progressions so that defence can be invested in to cancel out an investment in offence if the stat numbers are the same. This would be a core sign of imbalance, at the roots of EpicDuel. A huge issue, when you look at it, 20 Strength may be equal to 20 Dexterity (nearly), but considering today's equipment, the one with 20 Strength may possess a 35 damage Primary whereas the one with 20 Dexterity may possess an armour with 10 points of shielding. 35 - 10 is 25, therefor the statistcal difference between offence and defence is way off. This is troubling.
Responses for Cyberbeast: -
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About creating the new stat: "Luck", I fear this may cause big problems seeing as it could be COMPLETELY abused to have insane advantages! A build being able to deflect/block/ and critical with good probability is something to be feared. - Wait! I know controlling solely luck in a stat may be bad, even turned away from most players, but the thing we have to consider are statistical limits. Limits are placed everywhere, and that is a good thing to stop stat exploits. For Luck, if we compare it to stat progressions, there is no advantage past a certain given value, such as Strength and Support not improving past 165. We can do the same for Luck. For an example, at the maximum given stat points, chance to go critical will not exceed 33%. Good news though, is that we have similar thresholds in play for luck already. One such example that we currently have is that deflection chances will not exceed 25%.
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Your suggestion for DEX and TECH is also flawed as this would kill tank builds. People will either have to adopt a build with high strength and terrible defenses or a tank build with good defenses but terrible offense; and the existence of RAGE doesn't favor tank builds. - Killing tank builds? From your point that you have given I do not see any evidence of how tanks become obliterated. What you said was that people would require high Strength or high defences, but nothing about tanks being destroyed. A tank player is someone who can defend from high damage and still have more damage output than the enemy. From what I suggested and you pointed out, there is still the option to tank as simply a player would be required to allocate points to, for example, Strength Defense and Resistance, to be able to damage and take minimal damage. The weakness is that there is no weapon accuracy (from Dexterity), but also because the variability for damage is gone because it restricts the tank to only Primary damage than can easily be defended against by the matching element, Defense or Resistance... as seen in Defense Matrix or Energy Shield to reduce incoming damage to the minimum.
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About taking away stat requirements: I'm not sure. It could open up new builds; but there was a time when there weren't stat requirements and I'm sure they placed them for a reason, right? - Stat requirements became more and more favourable prior to Focus. When Focus came, stat requirements slowed down but staff continued to implement them. They did this because they did not want to suffer Focus builds by making an item or skill requirement past 46 points, hindering the stat point usage of Focus players who have few extra points to spend after achieving the fifth Focus. After a period of hardship, EpicDuel will break when stat requirements on every little thing restrict players to Focus without options. And the problem is because stats themselves are broken, not the players exploiting them.
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I can't agree with your last suggestion as it takes some diversity away from build making, even tho today is all mostly about strength. Maybe this would help tank builds as they don't have to dedicate stats or anything to skills; but this seems to cause more cons than pros. - Can you give me something to work with? Thanks. If it has many cons, I need to know, I am open to repair my suggestions if loopholes are obvious or imbalances are found.
Response to Zman: quote:
You move sidearms to dex then high dex builds have incredible defenses, high chance to block, and now a weapon. You move it to technology then TMs will just gun, plasma bolt, plasma rain, gun, plasma bolt etc so they will have 3 powerful attacks that are unblockable, they also have high resistance and a high chance to deflect also. You move it to support then support gets two weapons, a chance to crit, a chance to go first and faster rage. You move Sidearms to Dexterity and because in my complete suggestion, Dexterity has no attributes besides accuracy. This would bring it up to balance. But I would more support bringing Sidearms to Technology as it is reasonable, Technology determines the firepower. But also because it is balanced, as Technology no longer improves Resistance or Deflections/dodging. Therefor Technology now does squat (however I would like to make Technology control Robot damage while Focus controls the special ability + Robot accuracy), giving Technology the ability to improve ranged weapons would bring it up to the surface. Remember, I stated in my first post that Technology no longer controls Resistance, Deflections, and skills. Response to Cyberbeast: quote:
If you remove Gun damage from strength, then that stat will have the lowest benefits of all the other stats. What must be changed is how "Strike" works. I'm more inclined to agree with Depressed Void's idea of giving strike a cooldown, as it is the most simple and effective method to weaken strength builds. However, I am concerned as to how this will affect non-strength builds. Oops, I have not mentioned what I suggested for Strength when it is stripped of it's exploitable functions. I would give Strength the rage attribute, to make Strength the ideal stat to crush protective tanks that otherwise defend from all damage aside from rage and critical hits. Strength would be used an offensive tool to output decent damage and counter defensive builds using different forms of attack such as Robots. I want to create as many potential build ideas as possible. In the thread I have started a short while named "Should Strike have Cooldown?" I have suggested a feature known as defending when, in the event that no possible moves are available, the player misses their turn, but spends that turn defending by reducing incoming damage by 50%. Defending is used to cover the player a little by giving them time to recharge a weapon or skill in cooldown. Response to Wootz: Not only am I not interested that you do not support my suggestion(s), but I am also bugged that you yourself did not post any of your own suggestions when I clearly stated 2 VERY important comments which are: -The staff is working constantly, but do you think you can come up with a suggestion to fix stat exploits (stat abuse) for good? and -Now I want you to ask questions if anything seems out of place before you make false assumptions as you would obviously be a thread skimmer. @Cyber, When I have more time I will talk about your penalties to stat abuse because I have suggested that similarly before. :P
< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 3/24/2012 23:53:19 >
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