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Strength-Type Blood Mage

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4/10/2012 21:24:54   
Stabilis
Member

POPULAR OPINION THREAD

This is a sensitive topic. Please try to avoid inappropriateness. If you think your message could be flagged as inflammatory, please check over the EDGD Rules and Universal Forum Rules.

The BM class is becoming very popular lately, and I notice that the players are often using 1-5 turn Strength-oriented builds with the skills Bloodlust, Deadly Aim, and Fireball. I noticed this when I switched between Cyber Hunter and Tactical Mercenary, both of which are heavy duty classes with armours, yet have been taking massive damage. Bounty Hunters lack the power skills to release Strength as quickly as Blood Mages do, so that class is what I would consider a role model to compare Blood Mage to for balance... as I see that speed and power are not on the same scale for this class.

Do you find that, Blood Mages in terms of Strength damage output should be a higher priority for staff to observe? Battle Tracker data for these findings would be appreciated.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 4/11/2012 14:07:19 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
4/10/2012 21:27:42   
Mr. Black OP
Member

Yes, they should've nerfed BM instead of TM.
Personally I believe BH can't keep up is because their strength builds are smoke massacre, while BM have 2 powerful moves early on then they are as powerful as strength BH.

< Message edited by zman 2 -- 4/10/2012 22:19:23 >

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Epic  Post #: 2
4/10/2012 21:31:06   
drinde
Member

There IS a way for BHs to kill STR BloodMages fairly well, although blindingly obvious, that'll remain sorta secret for now.

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DF MQ Epic  Post #: 3
4/10/2012 21:36:15   
Stabilis
Member

Tell me tell me tell me tell me, eh, wait a second, I'm not a Bounty Hunter 'x'.

Is the secret... out-damaging the Blood Mage class and using SA?
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
4/10/2012 21:39:45   
drinde
Member

Hmm? Close.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 5
4/10/2012 21:43:17   
liy010
Member

My Guess is going first

I'd like to raise the Tanking Skills of CH/MERC/TLM...TO make BMs do 3 Damage on a Class...That'll be a sight to see.

< Message edited by liy010 -- 4/10/2012 21:44:06 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/10/2012 21:43:34   
Mr. Black OP
Member

@drinde
Reflex boost? EMP? Stun Grenade?
Epic  Post #: 7
4/10/2012 22:06:16   
Minus123
Member

Probably emp, seems to work well. Either that or smoke em and try to outdamage

edit: I only have experience with 2 v 2 bm's tho so...

< Message edited by Minus123 -- 4/10/2012 22:07:00 >
Post #: 8
4/10/2012 22:14:36   
Laces
Member

Strength Blood Mages have a very very high damage output. That I agree and I am a Blood Mage. But think of it this way, besides a strength build, what other build does a Blood Mage really have? I've tried a high dexterity build, but that doesn't work. The reason? When you place too many stat points in dexterity, you lower your strength. After using your two main dexterity skills, Supercharge and Plasma Bolt, what more do you have? You won't gain much health back through blood lust because of your lack of strength.

Dexterity/Strength builds don't work for a Blood Mage either. Trust me, I've tried. Tech builds don't work as Blood Mages really only have two skills for Tech, Plasma Cannon and Plasma Rain, neither of which is very effective against CHs and TLMs. Blood Mages don't even have a offensive skill that relies on support. Therefore, you're stuck with a High Strength Build to win.

All I'm asking for the Devs to do is add a bit of flavor to the Blood Mage skill tree. Please remove intimidate as it is utterly useless. Replace it with another skill. It doesn't have to be an energy regen skill nor does it have to be an OP skill. Just add a skill that can allow Blood Mages to use different builds, because honestly, how many Blood Mages have you seen without a strength build?
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/10/2012 22:15:38   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
Technology?
High dexterity builds aren't supposed to have strength anyways.
Epic  Post #: 10
4/10/2012 22:18:52   
Minus123
Member

I've seen alot of bloodmages with a tech build, max plasma, max rain, and max bloodlust. They're pretty formidable in 2 v 2, even more if paired with another bm/tm with the same build
Post #: 11
4/10/2012 22:20:16   
Laces
Member

@Zman

Exactly. High Dexterity Builds aren't supposed to have high strength. Because Blood Mages must place a high amount of points in Energy and need to place high amounts of stat points in Dexterity, their overall strength is significantly lowered. Thus their main passive, Blood Lust, is rendered useless. The moment you use either Plasma Bolt or Supercharge, you no longer have any other strong offensive weapon to use. Now you're stuck doing 10-15 damage to your opponents.

Technology builds don't work because Plasma Cannon and Plasma Rain aren't effective against CHs because of their passive armor. BMs don't have a Tech boosting skill to increase their damage output and similarly to High Dex builds, you have low strength resulting in low hp regen from Blood Lust.

@Minus

True. BMs can be very formidable in 2v2, but in 1v1, they aren't as great with high dex builds or high tech builds.



< Message edited by Laces -- 4/10/2012 22:22:14 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
4/10/2012 22:20:50   
drinde
Member

Another way would be making FireBall improve with Support.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 13
4/10/2012 22:21:27   
Rayman
Banned


 Im Bh and to Kill Str BMs with str build: Reflex then smoke and strike and then mass. if they use azrael borg to take off reflex is better cuz u r closer to mass and kill Em.
With focus Bh just reflex then aux-bot-heal-smoke so u get some more block % when reflex is Off but I hate when I dnt block but i always block enyway.
I lost when they r Lucky thats all i can say.
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
4/10/2012 22:38:57   
rajkumar
Member

You cant kill a blood mages with using a focus build you need a high hp build and either you change your class to tech mage or get beaten by blood mages. Even i tried different builds against blood mages and the only build working against was high hp build!!!
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
4/10/2012 22:44:33   
Joe10112
Member

It's just that everything works for BM too well.

Blodo Lust goes nice with Power Builds, and everything improves with STR. 3 skill improve (very quickly) with STR. Too OP.

WHich leadss me to say: Give Deadly Aim to CH, give Shadow Arts to BlM, remake Shadow Arts so it also gives a passive hit chance increase. So, Zerker has a higher chance of hitting.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
4/10/2012 22:55:24   
od
Member

quote:

Yes, they should've nerfed BM instead of TM.
Personally I believe BH can't keep up is because their strength builds are smoke massacre, while BM have 2 powerful moves early on then they are as powerful as strength BH.

I disagree. If a BH is able to get massacre ready, I'm completely screwed as a str BM since it at high levels is almost a guaranteed kill. Therefore, the only times I can beat str BH is when they have low hp and don't block

quote:

I've seen alot of bloodmages with a tech build, max plasma, max rain, and max bloodlust. They're pretty formidable in 2 v 2, even more if paired with another bm/tm with the same build

That's true, but high Tec BM is poor in 1v1 since they don't have a constant stream of spells like TM's do, which is why I am not going to bother spending 30k credits for a non-superior build when I could use those credits to improve my str build by getting more enhancements
Epic  Post #: 17
4/10/2012 23:03:43   
Mr. Black OP
Member

@od
By the time they get to massacre they are usually dead.
Epic  Post #: 18
4/10/2012 23:06:18   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 The build one sees now with Blood Mages are the extreme counters to both tac merc and ch builds. Just as both those classes utilize their class with their passives, Blood Mage uses strength as a double incentive. One is for gain in health and the other is bypass classes that uses emp or energy reducing skills.

Beyond strength, this class is extremely difficult to play balanced. My bm alt uses a passive approach and does not compete well at all with any extreme stat/skill or passive armor tank builds.

Just like with the other issues with the other classes, it stems by enhancements. Essentially this has boosted skills and damage beyond balance. I have also noticed at level 34, our current skill tree has become small.

Both stat structure and skill tree expanding should be considered.

The issues with balance would have not been an obstacle like this, because of the opportunity of full enhancements (40 max points) is 10 levels ahead of a true level 34 should be.

Must be streamlined there is no alternative if balance must be achieved.

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 4/10/2012 23:09:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
4/10/2012 23:10:00   
od
Member

quote:

@od
By the time they get to massacre they are usually dead.

If you have 139 hp and decent defenses, you wont get 4 shotted, especially if you emp, heal ,or shield
@Jzannu
Not necessarily. I used to be a 5 focus bloodmage and got about the same % as str BM, just slower battles. I essentially used it like a 5 focus BH. Bloodmage actually has some of the best defenses with RB, ES and intimidate. I feel like all they need is to make fireball an AOE skill, then move out plasma rain and slide in an edrainer. This would allow bloodmages to fight str builds with greater ease. The skill could be given a support requirement to stop str builds from using it

< Message edited by od -- 4/10/2012 23:16:15 >
Epic  Post #: 20
4/10/2012 23:18:20   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
How many BHs have you seen with 139 health? So far I really haven't see any. Lets say you have lv 1 massacre, lv 1 heal, lv 6 smoke, you weed need 73 energy to pull that off, now with decent defenses (lets say 34 defense and 34 resistance) you really wouldn't have much strength left, most BH have higher than lv 1 mass anyways most are 4-6. So having 139 health, good defenses, high damage, being able to heal, mass and smoke is an unrealistic build.
Epic  Post #: 21
4/10/2012 23:18:30   
AllenLingChen
Member

Believe it or not, most high health techs or bounties can EASILY ruin BM.
ALL IT TAKES IS 1 block. If any thing goes wrong with probability, rage block/deflect, then the WIN becomes urs.
Its getting extremely annoying that u ppl rant about EVERYTHING the devs do.
If u hate the game dat much leave.
If u feel like u wanna win then NPC!
I was a BM in the worse of the Tact Prime. I DID NOT RANT AT ALL ABOUT TACT MERCS.
Yet BM hasn't become strong for just a few days and massive rants happen all over. Instead of complaining, MAKE UR OWN BUILDS! Plenty ways to counter BM WITH EACH CLASS!
AQ  Post #: 22
4/10/2012 23:23:45   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 The problem is that very seldom does a BM use blockable skills. Twice if you use a huge tank build or drain their energy. One Berzerker and one strike if Rage Gun doesn't kill.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
4/11/2012 0:17:16   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!
quote:

od:
@Jzannu
Not necessarily. I used to be a 5 focus bloodmage and got about the same % as str BM, just slower battles. I essentially used it like a 5 focus BH. Bloodmage actually has some of the best defenses with RB, ES and intimidate. I feel like all they need is to make fireball an AOE skill, then move out plasma rain and slide in an edrainer. This would allow bloodmages to fight str builds with greater ease. The skill could be given a support requirement to stop str builds from using it


Currently the best use for 5 focus (Bot Primary) is classes that carry a passive armor and have best opportunity to defense against high skill/stat builds. I have rarely seen a 5 focus (Bot Primary)blood mage. The majority of BM varieties are either strength, tech or a hybrid of easy to reach max FireBall and Plasma Cannon combo. If the class did well in any other variations, there would be more. I am not sure why you mention about your win percentage. I spoke of competing. There is a difference. I play balanced passive to view how the community is playing as a whole and make slight adjustments to see if there are possible counters without going into extremes. This is what I enjoy and do best. It is a main reason I use all my classes solely without class change, it is about problem solving.

A small adjustment on the BM skill tree or your example of 5 focus does not address the landscape of the game. That is the scope I am speaking of; landscape.

I appreciate the response, but we are speaking of 2 different aspects and elements the game should view for balance.

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 4/11/2012 0:24:20 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
4/11/2012 0:18:53   
Retrosaur
Member
 

 The answer is obvious.

Give Tactical Mercenaries BloodLust instead of Stun Grenade.

'nuff said ;3
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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