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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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4/29/2012 11:39:18   
Rayman
Banned


 Should they bring back focus dmg to weps? (aux.gun,primary)
AQW Epic  Post #: 526
4/29/2012 11:41:44   
Ranloth
Banned


 Focus builds are already strong enough, especially ones with passive Armors or BL which seem to do well combined (BMs and BHs). TMs can do Focus build as well, not as effective but can work quite good so giving them boost of +5 damage to all weapons would be making them OP & another reason as of why Devs apparently want to force us to use Focus 5.
AQ Epic  Post #: 527
4/29/2012 12:08:48   
Stabilis
Member

THIS SUGGESTION HAS BEEN MOVED HERE BY ME BECAUSE I THINK IT CAN TRULY HELP ED WITH BALANCE.

And, luck can mess up battle tracker.

Raise your hand if random chance interfered in any of your battles.

Raise your hand if random chance prolonged or cut short an unnecessary battle.

Raise your third hand if random chance has ever ruined your moment.

Well, what is your stance on luck?

Personally, I have had enough of gambling my fate in EpicDuel. If I have a massive Support advantage then I should be the one who has control over the influence of Support. Vice-versa for enemies who have the same advantage over me.

I am suggesting that "luck" is no longer a gamble but instead something strategic in each and every one of our EpicDuel battles. How this would work is that we play using counters of stat-specific battle mechanics like blocking or going critical.

I will upload a poorly drawn diagram eventually to help express the idea.

For Support's case, first turn is a once per battle occurrence, so I recommend that whoever has the highest Support stat total should go first... guaranteed. Support also manifests critical hits and stun resistance, and these would occur more than once. So now I will introduce this idea of counters. Counters are the number of charges which an ability can be used for. If I have 5 critical hit charges, I can then choose to critical hit a maximum of 5 times. I would have calculated these counters by simply the number of stat points, but then there are no real benefits to using Focus... or having 2 equally Support savvy players critical hit 10 times under their control (easily exploitative). So, these "counters" would be calculated by the difference in stat points between opposing sides.

I was thinking of a progression like:

10+ Stat Difference: 1 Counter

20+ Stat Difference: 2 Counters

30+ Stat Difference: 3 Counters

40+... etc, etc

All the way up to 50+ difference in stats at a maximum of 5 counters.

I was going to use disintegration/decay in the progression, but that surely only benefits Focus in the end, right? So no favouritism.

The mechanics of counters run like this:

A player with 5 critical hit counters in a battle can use all 5 of his/her abilities to go critical within that battle. There are limitations however (like calculus), as to how quickly each counter can be executed. We do not want anyone spamming critical Robot Strike, critical Auxiliary, then a critical multi skill. What do you think this is, today's EpicDuel? Even Nightwraith's NPC is complaining about luck, what's going on there? So... we will use cooldowns! Hurray! Yes, cooldowns on counters for each event in which they are used. For example if I have 3 critical strike counters and use one for my Sidearm, I must wait approximately 5 turns before using another critical strike counter. I would consider having a 1 turn warmup for every counter ability as well. Who wants to have their first turn Bludgeon blocked, or be critical hit for half of their total health on the first turn without being able to prepare in advance? If we warmup for one counter like critical strike, we must warmup for all counters, it is only fair.

Further details of the mechanics:

Some flags were raised in my head when I though about duration. What if you have a block counter up but your opponent does not Strike you?! I would have the block counter remain in play for as long as the opponent does not Strike or use their Primary weapon, and then activate and exhaust the block counter when they do use their Primary. Counters can stack, so when a player uses a block counter when one block counter is already in play, the player is guarded by 2 block counters. Counters will not be visible to opponents, so anticipating and foiling one's use of counters would be intelligent, but very very aggravating for the player who was fooled. Counters do not effect "ultimate skills". With a brief explanation on my part, boosting the effectiveness of something "ultimate" would make it godly then, no? And godly skills would be game-breaking for PvP balance. That's right, you will have to live with ultimate skills not being affected by critical strikes, is that OK? I would somehow eventually include unstoppable attack skills to be vulnerable to this revised system of "luck". For example, Fireball or Plasma Bolt has great damage but cannot be blocked or deflected. Well, if it cannot be blocked or deflected, it should not be able to go critical! Fair enough? And about skills that already include critical chance and stun chance. The critical and stun chance are now guaranteed. I would simply reduce their damage (they even do well in today's standards, just look at Tactical Mercenary's past Strength builds that included Maul). Reduce the damage and guarantee the "luck".

I have forgotten some of my other topics...

But please, do comment, question, and feedback your thoughts to me! If anything is wrong, I want you to tell me (constructively as best as you can), and I will make amends!

Thanks for reading!
AQ Epic  Post #: 528
4/29/2012 12:13:18   
liy010
Member

From Page 20
(Sorry, my opinion is so late...I had some issues with my 2vs2 record because my partner kept leaving)
quote:

Mercenary Move?
Static Rage, regains both health and energy.
1: 5% both
2: 8% both
3: 11% both
4: 14% both
5: 16% both
6: 18% both
7: 20% both
8: 22% both
9: 24% both
10: 25% both
The requirements are the same as static charge but strength or dexterity.
2 turn cool down.
Or maybe a passive to replace adrenaline.
Energy Bloodlust? Goes up the same as regular bloodlust.

Basically, a Static Charge that is 4% weaker and gives health too "-.-
I don't agree with this. I mean, sure Merc is UP and all but I switched to Cyber just because of the unique Static Charge Skill.
I don't want it to be stolen by another Class.
Also, with Merc's Passive Split Armor, they will be OP at Tanking with this.
As a CH, I static charge twice for a Level 5 Heal, my only way to get health back (I get about 14 Energy per Charge) so if it gave back health too, holy crap I'd be hard to kill!
Also, lets not forget it is a % of your Damage, unaffected by opponent's defence (If it was, it would be UP) so even if you did 3 Damage, you still gain a lot of HP and at 13-16 Damage with a +34(-2) weapon, you'd be regaining 14 HP every 2 turns
What I suggest is that we either increase the cooldown time, lower the percentages, change it to only Health and no Energy or make it like Frenzy with a bit of EP regain
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for another situation. In 2vs2 today, my partner basically slapped me in the face. He was a Merc with a crap load of Tech (Resistance was 35 at lowest) and still Average Defences (Defence was 29+9 at lowest). He had a crap load of Energy too.
His skill Tree was Max bunker, level 8 SS and the rest I forgot. He Bunkered and hit a 53 Crit on a Cyber with over 40 defence. 2 turns later he Surgical Strikes for about 50 Damage and Bunkers again right after that.
Through all this time, he was still surviving at a good pace.

See, Mercs are not that UP it's just that they are a complex Class to use.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Void say I used Multi-Shot and I had 2 critical counters. Can I stack both of them to critical both players in that shot?
How about 1 default Crit Counter at the start of the battle? Except, this crit counter will have a 4 turn Warm-Up. just because most people I know play with 18 Support and my Loss for Juggernaut would be Clean right now if not for Crits.
Block Counters...Would they be Visible? I mean, the whole point of Blocks are to block when they are least expecting it so I think it shouldn't be visible. If it was, it would just work like Bio Borg for me. Don't Strike.
Smoking/RB...One use of Smoke/RB is to increase your chance of Block/Chance to hit but if this were to be implanted, well..Example

Me (Any Class): 40 Dex
Opponent (Blood Mage): 10 Dex
Me: Gets 3 Block Counters
Opponent: Uses Max RB with a crap load of Support (Still at 0 Dodge Counters..)
Me: Uses a Dodge Counter
Opponent: Berzerkers (Just pretend it's still there..) with over 1000 Strength...Yeah, I know not 1000 but you get the point...
Me: Blocked :P
Opponent "-.-

Vice Versa with the Smoke.
Lastly, do you have any plans for Deflect Counters?


< Message edited by liy010 -- 4/29/2012 14:29:16 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 529
4/29/2012 13:37:22   
Rayman
Banned


 I still think focus dmg should go back to weps. If i use focus bh i cant do good dmg vs tanks. 3 dmg with gun 3 with primary and 7-11 with aux and bot 15-20.
AQW Epic  Post #: 530
4/29/2012 13:42:13   
Hun Kingq
Member

These are the weapons that get a simple version of cheap shot at rage with regular strike: the club, the sword, the claws but not the staff. So with regular strike at rage with the staff should be no different maybe a strike then a spin kick to the head.
Epic  Post #: 531
4/29/2012 14:04:01   
liy010
Member

quote:

These are the weapons that get a simple version of the animation of cheap shot at rage with regular strike: the club, the sword, the claws but not the staff. So with regular strike at rage with the staff should be no different maybe a strike then a spin kick to the head.


I just tested all 4 weapons with a Guest player against my Main with high defences.

Staff: Whacks once dealing 3 Damage. Total 3 Damage
Sword: Kicks for 1 Damage and then Whacks for 2 Damage. Total 3 Damage
Club: Kicks for 1 Damage and then Whacks for 2 Damage. Total 3 Damage
Wrist Blades: Kicks for 1 Damage, Strikes up for 1 Damage then Strikes Down for 1 Damage. Total 3 Damage

They all do the same Damage

Really, the ED team has more important things to worry about than animation.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 532
4/29/2012 14:21:05   
Hun Kingq
Member

Why don't you test three level 34 primaries because it may be balanced at lower levels but you can't really say it is balanced at higher levels unless you do the same exact test with level 34 characters.

With the staff you don't see before the strike it gets blocked only at the strike but the other weapons you see before hand the block when the kick happens.

I say a strike with the staff then a spin kick to the head will spice things up.
Epic  Post #: 533
4/29/2012 14:27:30   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @hun So seeing your entire rage attack blocked sooner than the other classes is a balance problem? That seems to be your point in that post. The number of hits mean nothing for damage. Massacre can hit 20 times or just 1 and it will still add up to the same damage.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 534
4/29/2012 14:36:55   
liy010
Member

quote:

Why don't you test three level 34 primaries because it may be balanced at lower levels but you can't really say it is balanced at higher levels unless you do the same exact test with level 34 characters.


Because Level 34 has more Chance put into it. I tested with the Minimal damage because that was easier. If you're higher level, you'll probably have Higher Strength+Better Weapons but it'll still do the same. The point of this is not how much Damage you do. We are comparing to each other. If they all do the Same Minimal Damage and that Minimal Damage was to be amplified to the same amount, it would still be the same. It's like if something costed $1 and you bought 25 if would cost you $25 and then you bought 5 of that exact same thing somewhere else which costed $5 in total because you only bought 5. Does that mean the first place charged you more? No.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 535
4/29/2012 15:15:42   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

@Void say I used Multi-Shot and I had 2 critical counters. Can I stack both of them to critical both players in that shot?


Unfortunately, Multi-Shot would not be able to go critical. Since Multi-Shot cannot be blocked or deflected, I would not find it balanced in PvP to allow it to hit critically. This goes for all attack skills.

quote:

How about 1 default Crit Counter at the start of the battle? Except, this crit counter will have a 4 turn Warm-Up. just because most people I know play with 18 Support and my Loss for Juggernaut would be Clean right now if not for Crits.


A standard critical counter for all players? Hmm, if this is to help handle brick walls, then this idea shall be most implemented. I will use it, although, I think we can directly handle tanks by managing the rage mechanic instead of critical counters.

quote:

Block Counters...Would they be Visible? I mean, the whole point of Blocks are to block when they are least expecting it so I think it shouldn't be visible. If it was, it would just work like Bio Borg for me. Don't Strike.


Block counters would not be visible, no. Otherwise, you may as well walk into a battle knowing that your enemy told you that a tripwire was placed in front of you and was used to activate their most powerful weapon. I would not find this practical.

quote:

Smoking/RB...One use of Smoke/RB is to increase your chance of Block/Chance to hit but if this were to be implanted, well..Example

Me (Any Class): 40 Dex
Opponent (Blood Mage): 10 Dex
Me: Gets 3 Block Counters
Opponent: Uses Max RB with a crap load of Support (Still at 0 Dodge Counters..)
Me: Uses a Dodge Counter
Opponent: Berzerkers (Just pretend it's still there..) with over 1000 Strength...Yeah, I know not 1000 but you get the point...
Me: Blocked :P
Opponent "-.-

Vice Versa with the Smoke.


Since Smokescreen DOES decrease Dexterity and Reflex Boost DOES increase Dexterity, I would handle stat nerfing and buffing by placing identical "anticounters". These would work by cancelling out the opposite counter. The limitation though, would be that these skills only place 1 anticounter at a time. Also, these anticounters would vanish as soon as the skill's effects wore off. For example:

Scenario A
Player-I Smokescreens Player-II ► 1 antiblock counter is placed on Player-II
Player-II uses 1 block counter and Strikes Player-I
Player-I Strikes Player-II ► the antiblock counter cancels out the block counter, allowing Player-I to connect his attack on Player-II

Scenario B
Player-I Reflex Boosts ► 1 block counter is placed on Player-I
Player-II Strikes Player-I ► Player-I blocks Player-II's attack

quote:

Lastly, do you have any plans for Deflect Counters?


Yes, they would work identically to blocking, unless you have spotted a flaw in deflections?
AQ Epic  Post #: 536
4/29/2012 15:20:07   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @void
quote:

Luck: a combination of circumstances, events, etc., operating by chance to bring good or ill to a person

It's not luck if you can control it because it's not a chance to happen. Luck is supposed to be unpredictable. When people complain about luck, it usually involves them getting unlucky and losing a battle because luck did what luck does and did unpredictable things. It's like complaining your coffee is too much like coffee and needs to be less like it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 537
4/29/2012 15:31:01   
liy010
Member

quote:

Player-I Smokescreens Player-II ► 1 antiblock counter is placed on Player-II
Player-II uses 1 block counter and Strikes Player-I
Player-I Strikes Player-II ► the antiblock counter cancels out the block counter, allowing Player-I to connect his attack on Player-II

Scenario B
Player-I Reflex Boosts ► 1 block counter is placed on Player-I
Player-II Strikes Player-I ► Player-I blocks Player-II's attack


Yeah, but most of the time, the (De)Buffs from Smoke/RB are more than 10 so would they receive only 1 counter?

I think the counter is very strategic but what game is fun without a bit of luck?
I propose a new idea. Instead of an instablock/instacrit, how about it hightens the chance to block/crit say..By 50%

I probably owe 25% of my wins and losses to luck (I owe 50% of my losses to my partner leaving in 2vs2...)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deflects working the same way as blocks, now that I have no problem with. Except, I'd like to rework Deflect
After reading the last sentence of your post, I started thinking what to post back and I kept saying deflect in my head.
In cartoons, if something if deflected, it goes right back to the person.
In a battle with Hun Kingq, I was at 14 HP and his aux could do fully well over 20 damage on me...He shot, I deflected. My Heal cooled down...I healed...he ragequit (His primary could only do 6-8)
He would've won the battle strategically but I won because of luck.

What I purpose
Blocking takes some skill to do in real life and we do with without a sweat. What I think should happen is blocking makes you take 50%, if not 25% (or even 10%) of the Damage that would've been dealt to you.
Deflects on the other hand, would deal 50% of the Damage that the other person dealt to you back at them but you receive full Damage (Not sure about this because this can be easily abused by Glass STR Builds)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 538
4/29/2012 15:41:29   
Stabilis
Member

@The ND Mallet Guy,

I'm sure you have heard of the Oxford University and their studies of the English language, language history, and Latin.

Strategy

quote:

Strategy
  • noun (plural strategies)

    1. a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim

      • time to develop a coherent economic strategy shifts in marketing strategy
      • the art of planning and directing overall military operations and movements in a war or battle. Often contrasted with tactics (see tactic).
      • a plan for military operations and movements during a war or battle: nonprovocative defense strategies


    • Strategy Games: Abstract

    EpicDuel is an abstract strategy game and really any of the other mentioned forms. There is no "luck" involved. Therefor there should be no luck at all. You are welcome for those links.

    quote:

    It's not luck if you can control it because it's not a chance to happen. Luck is supposed to be unpredictable. When people complain about luck, it usually involves them getting unlucky and losing a battle because luck did what luck does and did unpredictable things. It's like complaining your coffee is too much like coffee and needs to be less like it.


    I plan to transmute luck into strategy, something this game needs especially with skills like Maul or Plasma Cannon. This strategy game would be better off without random chance determining PvP results. And for your information, I am not attempting to complain that luck is harming me specifically, no. I am arguing for the entire society of EpicDuel that no one should submit to forces beyond their control that ultimately turn a strategic battle around, FORCING someone who had deserved to win to lose, and someone who had deserved to lose to win. And that, causes discomfort, so I ask you, why people should not complain about events like these?

    < Message edited by Depressed Void -- 4/29/2012 15:42:56 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 539
    4/29/2012 15:46:23   
    khalidon5000
    Member

    		I disagree, luck should be a part of the game, seeing how players can fight people -/+ 5 levels.
    With your idea about the more the difference between the stats higher levels have a great advantage.
    For levels 29-32 it would be instant loss unless the lower was varium and higher non varium.
    Epic  Post #: 540
    4/29/2012 15:47:42   
    ND Mallet
    Legendary AK!!!


    		 @void Luck happens everywhere in life. Even in wars a side can lose due to luck. Be it bad weather they weren't prepared for ravaging their troops or famine due to a sudden plant/animal disease outbreak. Luck is in this game so you can't go into a battle, look at the stats of the enemy and say "I win this one" and be right about that 100% of the time.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 541
    4/29/2012 15:49:38   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Removing luck = fixed battles. It's simply battle of numbers then, you can even make pre-battle scenarios of what fights you will definitely win which is boring. I see no strategy there with no luck.

    quote:

    In abstract strategy games, the game is only loosely tied to a real-world theme, if at all. The mechanics do not attempt to simulate reality, but rather serve the internal logic of the game.

    I see no Bunnies in Armors in real-life, what things are you seeing? Besides you ain't the one to set the game rules either. Removing luck will never be done, then it's making block either 100% or 0% to reduce luck, this makes game dull already and majority would quit it because it'd be just numbers, nothing fun.

    < Message edited by Trans -- 4/29/2012 15:53:05 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 542
    4/29/2012 16:06:58   
    Stabilis
    Member

    quote:

    Yeah, but most of the time, the (De)Buffs from Smoke/RB are more than 10 so would they receive only 1 counter?


    Yes, could you imagine getting up to 5 free counters every moment a player used Reflex Boost for example? They have cool downs, yes, but imagine 5 instances of negating all melee attacks when they could in fact be a Strength user and the Reflex Booster is a Support user, not a Dexterity user. Anyhow, because cooldowns are around the 5 turn range for counters and skill-induced counters disappear when the effects wear off, there would only be time for 1 counter due to cooldowns, so it would be OK.

    quote:

    I think the counter is very strategic but what game is fun without a bit of luck?
    I propose a new idea. Instead of an instablock/instacrit, how about it hightens the chance to block/crit say..By 50%


    50% you say? OK, I have a fun simulation for you. You are playing EpicDuel and you have a 50% chance to block your enemy. If you do not block him you will surely die.

    http://www.random.org/

    Click on the site above and make sure the RNG minimum is set to 1 and the maximum set to 100. Now, you plan to use your block strategically (or so you claim) to stop your enemy and defeat them on your next turn because they have 3 health. Now do this 5 times, generate 5 numbers. Every time you generate a number over 50 you have blocked your enemy. If you did not, you failed and your enemy just pwned you.

    Did you get 5 out of 5 blocks? Great, that is basically what I am proposing.
    Did you get 3 or 2 out of 5 blocks? Ah well, that RNG will not bother you after 100 or 1000 failed blocks, right?
    Did you get 0 out of 5 blocks? Ouch, you had a 0% block rate, even though you had a 50% chance to block.

    Guys, this is what I am talking about. Gambling, and the assorted, is not good for everyone. I want everyone to have an equal opportunity in EpicDuel, and by working on counters to use strategically in battle and not put your fate in Titan's RNG hands, I hope to make EpicDuel a more fun game for PvP.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 543
    4/29/2012 16:09:45   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Wait.. So I want AQ to remove it's BtH, whole blocking system, and make me hit 100% of the time and vice versa because it's fair. No that's what makes the game fun, if you're scared of luck then try to think of counter strategy or perfect your build. Luck in-game is gambling? Gambling is your life, make a choice that will affect your life or don't make one and keep what you have, but wait that is a choice so you just gambled.. Understood?

    "As long as there is any possibility of both players losing, there is luck involved." - 'Nuff said.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 544
    4/29/2012 16:34:31   
    Stabilis
    Member

    quote:

    Removing luck = fixed battles. It's simply battle of numbers then, you can even make pre-battle scenarios of what fights you will definitely win which is boring. I see no strategy there with no luck.

    quote:



    In abstract strategy games, the game is only loosely tied to a real-world theme, if at all. The mechanics do not attempt to simulate reality, but rather serve the internal logic of the game.



    I see no Bunnies in Armors in real-life, what things are you seeing? Besides you ain't the one to set the game rules either. Removing luck will never be done, then it's making block either 100% or 0% to reduce luck, this makes game dull already and majority would quit it because it'd be just numbers, nothing fun.


    Look at it this way, Trans. I came to Artix Entertainment because the environment was vowed to be kid-friendly and a place of fun/games for people of all sorts.

    quote:

    With the help of our gaming community, we build awesome games that play in your browser!

    Our friendly team is committed to making our worlds full of danger and adventure while still suitable for players of all ages.

    Visit one of our games to create a free account and join us on the forums to brainstorm what to build next.


    From http://www.artixentertainment.com/

    quote:

    Artix Entertainment LLC provides family friendly entertainment to our users. We are committed to protecting the safety and security of its online visitors and are sensitive to our user's concerns about the safety of personal information provided to us. We encourage all our users to read this Privacy Statement carefully in order to understand how any personal information collected about you is used.


    From http://www.aq.com/aw-privacy.asp

    quote:

    Dear Parents,

    EpicDuel is a free multiplayer online game for the web browser. Players create fully customizable characters, purchase weapons and armors, and battle against other players and computer enemies in an ever-expanding world. EpicDuel offers deep complexity that encourages strategy and calculation, while remaining simple, fun, and safe for even the youngest players. Our unique gameplay mechanics enable players to cooperate with other players from around the world.

    Anyone can begin playing EpicDuel for free with only a web-browser and the latest version of the Flash plugin.

    Player Safety

    It is our highest priority to ensure the safety and integrity of our online community. EpicDuel enforces a strict language filter to prevent players from using inappropriate words, and game moderators constantly supervise our systems to ban violators. Rest assured that the EpicDuel staff will do its best to offer a child-friendly environment, free from foul language, nudity, realistic violence, and drug use.


    From http://epicduel.artix.com/dear-parents.asp

    I was promised further details vowing what AE and it's property should represent, so expect more in the future.

    AE's and my own mutual problem is that we could potentially be promoting age-explicit material in the future or by accident, under an age-specific law standard (universally 18 years of age). If EpicDuel ends up becoming a game of lottery, gambling, maybe something worse later on... and not of strategical role-play, would it meet the requirements of fulfilling Artix Entertainment's promises? No.

    Sure, random chance is exciting, it livens up our atmosphere. But who said random chance had to be in. Our. PvP. Battle. Mechanics. Whenever we make what we assume to be a "strategical" decision? In fact, when you think about it, is PvP already random enough?

    Count these factors: -you will encounter a random person in an EpicDuel battle -you cannot predict what action the other player will choose -their stats can be totally randomized -they have different values from you (they may be offensive and you defensive)

    When you think about it, isn't all of this randomness enough? I am considering your thoughts, as well, but I seem to lack insight as to whether whoever is arguing against is looking at this topic though my eyes. Open your minds.


    So, if EpicDuel and AE stands for all of these things, would they not take an approach in educating us as opposed to toying with us? Behind this corporation, there are very good people, count Cysero for one, whenever an AQW story ends the good guys always win. If you weigh in explicit material and empowering our youths, the later is much much more heavy, more profound.

    < Message edited by Depressed Void -- 4/29/2012 16:38:00 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 545
    4/29/2012 16:43:21   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 I still don't get your point. What you're trying to say is remove LUCK from all games. That means AQW - sure you can hit 245 now and next hit it's 321 but that's luck, therefore gambling. It makes no sense, luck does NOT equal gambling. Gambling is old Arcade - you pay Tokens and have a chance to win an item. If you lose then you lose, and you do it again. That's gambling, it ties with luck but luck is unpredictable in any case.

    quote:

    luck (lk)
    n.
    1. The chance happening of fortunate or adverse events; fortune: They met one day out of pure luck.
    2. Good fortune or prosperity; success: We wish you luck.
    3. One's personal fate or lot: It was just my luck to win a trip I couldn't take.


    quote:

    gam·ble (gmbl)
    v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles
    v.intr.
    1.
    a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
    b. To play a game of chance for stakes.
    2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.
    3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.
    v.tr.
    1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.
    2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.
    n.
    1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
    2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.


    Definitions are different. You don't put anything or risk to win the battles, therefore LUCK =/= GAMBLING.

    quote:

    Count these factors: -you will encounter a random person in an EpicDuel battle -you cannot predict what action the other player will choose -their stats can be totally randomized -they have different values from you (they may be offensive and you defensive)

    You're suggesting even matching up players is random, aka gambling? What's wrong with you seriously?
    AQ Epic  Post #: 546
    4/29/2012 16:53:08   
    Stabilis
    Member

    quote:

    You're suggesting even matching up players is random, aka gambling? What's wrong with you seriously?


    You are making false assumptions again. The only thing wrong with me is that I have to deal with depression and people without empathy who step on my back when I fall on my face.

    If you saw what I wrote ABOVE those lines, the only unwarranted age-explicit content would be content that COULD form

    quote:

    AE's and my own mutual problem is that we could potentially be promoting age-explicit material in the future or by accident, under an age-specific law standard (universally 18 years of age). If EpicDuel ends up becoming a game of lottery, gambling, maybe something worse later on


    , not content that HAS formed

    quote:

    Count these factors: -you will encounter a random person in an EpicDuel battle -you cannot predict what action the other player will choose -their stats can be totally randomized -they have different values from you (they may be offensive and you defensive)


    .

    The random environment of meeting different people with whom one can socialize with is enough, thank you very much.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 547
    4/29/2012 16:57:32   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Funny thing, I see nothing about LUCK being mentioned in these quotes you have given me. And I have proven that luck =/= gambling so there's no problem with luck, not it's possible to remove it in a PvP game. Ever.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 548
    4/29/2012 17:12:39   
    liy010
    Member

    quote:

    I still don't get your point. What you're trying to say is remove LUCK from all games. That means AQW - sure you can hit 245 now and next hit it's 321 but that's luck, therefore gambling. It makes no sense, luck does NOT equal gambling. Gambling is old Arcade - you pay Tokens and have a chance to win an item. If you lose then you lose, and you do it again. That's gambling, it ties with luck but luck is unpredictable in any case.


    Use a Stable weapon e.g. Unarmed and your Damage will be the same each time.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ahem, back on topic

    quote:

    Yes, could you imagine getting up to 5 free counters every moment a player used Reflex Boost for example? They have cool downs, yes, but imagine 5 instances of negating all melee attacks when they could in fact be a Strength user and the Reflex Booster is a Support user, not a Dexterity user. Anyhow, because cooldowns are around the 5 turn range for counters and skill-induced counters disappear when the effects wear off, there would only be time for 1 counter due to cooldowns, so it would be OK.


    Yeah, I find this a bit unfair because then, the RB users can't do as well which would force people to use Dex builds hence, decreasing the value of Support even more. How about, when the RB fades, the opponent gets x amount of Block Counters

    quote:

    50% you say? OK, I have a fun simulation for you. You are playing EpicDuel and you have a 50% chance to block your enemy. If you do not block him you will surely die.


    Except, you would need to have higher Dex than your opponent to get counters bring your chance up to 51% automatically. Now if you have a huge amount over your opponent and you place a counter, the max block chance (With SA) now is 50%. Add that to the extra 50%, Boom, you have 100%

    Next question. How would this work for 2vs2/Jugg?
    In Jugg, if is was both Players combined, the opposing would be too OP
    If not combined, the Jugg would be too OP
    In 2vs2 would it be Player A's Dex+Player B's Dex V.S. Player C's Dex+Player D's Dex?
    Or would it be Player A's Dex (Higher Dex than Player B) V.S. Player C's Dex (Higher Dex than Player D)
    In 2vs2, could you share the counters with your teammate? Like if you earned 3 at the start of the battle, could your partner use them? If so, would you have to apply it on him or could he use it at his own free will?

    Other Question(s).
    Could the counters only be used on your turn?
    Does it take a turn to apply the counter?
    If counters were implanted, how would SA/St.Patty's day Weps work? Would they give X amount of Block/Anti-Block counters?

    100% you say? OK, I have a fun fact for you. Luck can happen at anytime. Heck, you can go out for a walk and right at that time, a plane carrying the world's money in the sky might be losing altitude. In order to stop from crashing, they throw out all the money. All the money lands right beside you. Instant Million Billion Gazillionare. Or, you could just be walking and suddenly, the plane crashes on top of you. Ever heard of "Wrong Place, Wrong Time"?

    I respect your great ideas and I'm not trying to put them down in any way but we need luck. Luck (Or probability) is a factor to our everyday world. You even learn it for Math in School. If we went a day without luck, Well, things like Casinos just wouldn't be possible now, would they?
    If we are taking out all sources of luck, we might as well implant a button in battle that looks at both your stats and figures out who will win. The battle is instantly given to that person. If so, epicduel would just be: Join battle, Click button, repeat. There would be no fun at all.

    That is all. I feel like I just wasted 5 min of my life.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 549
    4/29/2012 17:19:39   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Shhh, liy. That wasn't my point. xDD
    Luck isn't predictable. You cannot take it out in a PvP game unless you make it a fight of numbers but that's still luck, one of the players will win but you don't know who so that's luck. You cannot get rid of it, impossibru.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 550
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