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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII

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5/31/2012 4:54:40   
Wootz
Member

ND,
I get your points. But, without the passive defense the damage they take is a problem because it would been larger then before. And for the record, I survive Massacres, with a Support build! Because the class cannot regen Health it means that they will probably have a really low ammount of Health when they get to Massacre, where they could choose between a Massacre or a Field Medic and every experienced player would choose Field Medic over Massacre. How about letting DB turn off on the Massacre? Then it wouldn't be an "overkill".

Arath,
true that. It should be otherwise. But the formula's just like that, unfortunatly. I get rage every 4th turn which I use with Auxiliary.
Massacre and perhaps a rage Cheap Shot is really a killer combination, so it definetly needs some work to do. Maybe halving the % of Rage points you get by that attack.

Liy and Hun,
I don't really get your point either. When I used a tank build I had a 40+ EMP Grenade and I just EMP'd everyone, it was fun! Againts those Glass Cannon Tech Mages (Which no longer isn't a problem) I used to loop EMP three times and I won, but it takes awfully long. The EMP Grenade is a core in the strategy, without it we'd probably have no other way to defend ourself rather then having a higher damage output.
AQW Epic  Post #: 676
5/31/2012 14:00:21   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @wootz I honestly don't see the point of re-adding a passive and then spending a whole bunch of time on it attempting to find to balance it without destroying the game or creativity. Even if it does get balanced right Str build would still abuse it. Plus it would be really buggy at first because I don't think it's possible to override a Passive that easily. BL not stacking on SC is as simple as coding it to pick the higher of the two regens(that's how it works with Blood Commander and any other health restoring move). There's probably a really good reason why the staff removed the Passive altogether instead of reworking it(like they did with SC and Hybrid Armor).
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 677
5/31/2012 14:59:11   
Wootz
Member

Didn't Plasma Armor destroy Cyber Hunters creativity? Give me one person and a build which doesn't use it (except my Max Massacre) and you got an argument there. Strenght will always be Strenght and it has always been abuse and obviously still will. And about the coding part, I think that it is rather much more simple like a weapon requirment. Who knows why they removed it, that was like 2 years back and more.
AQW Epic  Post #: 678
5/31/2012 15:06:17   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @wootz Probably because they couldn't fix it to actually work right with balance. If they could've then it would be in-game still. DBs would easily be just as overused as PA is right now so the whole "variety" of builds isn't much of an argument. Passives aren't supposed to be absolutely necessary in a build. Everyone would be using DBs if it got re-added. PA is getting changed eventually considering it's pretty much a guaranteed skill in every type of build out there.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 679
5/31/2012 15:35:27   
Wootz
Member

True that it would get overused. Every passive in this game is overused. Including the active passive (Static Charge). It still won't be necessary to use, but everyone will use it. 'Cause face it, not everyone is awesome. Just for clarity, why do you think that Plasma Armor is getting changed?
AQW Epic  Post #: 680
5/31/2012 15:43:16   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @above Because Shari stated awhile back that passives aren't supposed to be necessary skills to use and will be looked at eventually to balance them out some. The only Passives she called close to balance were Adrenaline and Deadly Aim. Since PA isn't either of those skills, it's only a small step to assume it'll get changed eventually.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 681
5/31/2012 15:53:26   
Joe10112
Member

Deadly Aim...balanced?

I Mean, 1 point into it = +3 damage at least.

5 points in and I can see +9 damage on a gun. That's a lot, hardly balanced IMO.

Only Passive I see as "Balanced" is Hybrid Armor. Literally. LOL U SEE WAT I DID DERE? :P
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 682
5/31/2012 15:57:15   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @joe Not sure what numbers you're using but a lvl 10 DA and a 35 damage gun will only get you 10 extra damage. To get 9 damage at level 5 you would need a gun with 39+ damage. Ten points for ten extra damage on a weapon that is used every 3rd turn due to cooldown sounds pretty balanced to me
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 683
5/31/2012 16:28:51   
Joe10112
Member

@^: Must have mislooked at many BM's stat builds then.

Anyway, I still think that DA is pretty OP. mid-level gives +6-8 damage
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 684
5/31/2012 16:38:07   
liy010
Member

quote:

Only Passive I see as "Balanced" is Hybrid Armor. Literally. LOL U SEE WAT I DID DERE? :P


The only reason is because HA is on Mercs, an UP Class...Think if it was on CH or TLM...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 685
5/31/2012 16:38:58   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @joe Not really. In 6 more levels when we have 40 damage guns a Max DA will only get you 2 extra points of damage compared to the damage now. In other words, 12 damage. DA scales with level a lot slower than people realize. Lvl 43 guns will give you 13 damage and then at 47 you'll get 14 damage. Roughly every 4 levels gets you an extra point of damage and considering that it takes only 2 levels to increase your defenses it isn't really a problem.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 686
5/31/2012 18:55:05   
rayniedays56
Member

Guys. Please look at the wiki for the DA numbers. Even though BM aand TM use a max DA on a 35 gun, the max benefit is at level 8
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 687
5/31/2012 19:08:15   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

Even though BM aand TM use a max DA on a 35 gun, the max benefit is at level 8.


Silly players, not using the most ideal skill allocations.

Too bad, that not all EpicDuel players are informed though. A poor little 5 year old boy could be capable of understanding the basics of EpicDuel, but not be informed of as to how percentages work or multiplication, placing him at a disadvantage.
AQ Epic  Post #: 688
5/31/2012 20:26:03   
Midnightsoul
Member

I also support Tran'sidea of conduction...

i also have an idea for cyber hunter called plasma shadow which replaces plasma armor.


Lvl 1: increases resistance by 1 and block chance by 1%
lvl 2：increases resistance by 2 and block chance by 1%
lvl 3: increases resistance by 2 and block chance by 2%

and so on...just like hybrid armor except it's wit blocking...

Edit:

oops lol, lemme fix that

to replace shadow arts, cybers get either a move like field commander but buffs support instead and lasts 6 turns OR they get a move that is similar to deadly aim but strengthens ur bazooka and robot
after this gets implemented, i would greatly appreciate static charge being buffed to 50%

< Message edited by bloodknight997 -- 5/31/2012 21:24:10 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 689
5/31/2012 20:34:38   
IvanXY
Member

@Bloodknight So CH's would have Plasma Shadow, and Shadows arts as well?
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 690
5/31/2012 21:26:24   
Midnightsoul
Member

Lol xD
my mistake, well, fixed it now

hope everyone likes the idea :D
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 691
5/31/2012 21:44:06   
ScarletReaper
Member

Yeah. I laugh every time I see somone with max DA. My level 5 DA gives me plus 8, but that's with the only 35 damage gun there is atm.

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 692
6/1/2012 10:00:49   
jegaggin
Member

Ah... I remember my noobie youth in the game.

_____________________________
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 693
6/1/2012 21:50:52   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 @wootz Everyone needs passives because there is not enough energy in the game to have multiple high and
expensive skills. HP or defenses suffer just trying to pay for it. Mages should have more energy than a merc
or bounty, but also the ability to have competitive defenses. Why waste skill points into something you have
little intention of using... So no cost passive skills are a necessity in my opinion.

ED - I'm writing this currently frozen AGAIN in a battle, due to one of the opponents leaving. This is BEYOND
annoying now...
Post #: 694
6/2/2012 10:07:25   
PivotalDisorder
Member

@ED STAFF: any news from the balance tracker on how Blood Mages are performing in 1v1 since Berzerker was switched with Bludgeon?
also interested to know if Cyber Hunter's win rate has increased since that same change.

all I see in 1v1 and 2v2 is Cyber Hunters now, getting very boring. Games are supposed to be fun and having one class completely dominate
all formats isn't fun, or fair. All comments from staff so far suggest CH are not gonna be changed cause they win no more than any other class

< Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 6/2/2012 11:01:09 >
Post #: 695
6/2/2012 10:26:13   
Stabilis
Member

I think that the only way to stop this Cyber Hunter outbreak... is to remove Plasma Armour (stop right there criminal scum, you violated my favourite skill! ~ Oblivion), and have the following change of Static Charge to:

Static Charge: A percentage of your Primary weapon's damage is added to your energy in a Strike. Energy restoration is unblockable, however damage is blockable. Cool-down has increased.

Energy Required: 0 (No Cost)

Conversion:
Level 1: 33% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 2: 36% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 3: 39% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 4: 42% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 5: 45% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 6: 48% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 7: 51% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 8: 54% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 9: 57% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 10: 60% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: Static Charge
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 4

This form of Static Charge is usable with all builds, not just Strength or Dexterity.
AQ Epic  Post #: 696
6/2/2012 13:01:32   
Renegade Reaper
Member

@ depressed void totally supported, the only reason a lot of players are cybers is because of passive armor.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 697
6/2/2012 14:04:13   
King Helios
Member

Multis should ignore Passive Armors.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 698
6/2/2012 14:56:00   
liy010
Member

Does anybody want to enlighten me as on why BM's Fireball costs 33 EP and TM's Plasma Bolt only costs 29?

Doesn't seem so fair to me...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 699
6/2/2012 15:39:52   
Stabilis
Member

@liy,

A skill that counts Strength and a skill that counts Technology.

Strength can hit either Physical or Energy but Technology only protects from Energy. Technology builds without weapons have minimal offensive options so that their skills compensate their damage output.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 6/2/2012 15:40:09 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 700
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