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RE: Counted NPC wins .

 
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5/8/2013 11:45:26   
Melbourne
Member

quote:

again, they aren't free. the number of wins dont stack up in my win counter by itself.


Yes but it is quite a bit easier to kill an Npc than to defeat a level 35 opponent with a good build.

quote:

well what did u expect? im pretty sure lvl 30 PLAYERS were just as "free wins" as the lvl 30 npcs which we could challenge.


Yes, but the majority of the time you do not fight level 30 players. You usually fight level 35's.
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
5/8/2013 11:50:05   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Yes but it is quite a bit easier to kill an Npc than to defeat a level 35 opponent with a good build.

that doesn't mean its free though.

quote:

Yes, but the majority of the time you do not fight level 30 players. You usually fight level 35's.

ok, and the majority of the NPCs were around lvl 30.
now having the OPTION to fight a lvl 30 or lvl 35 npc, which one are u going to pick?
we all know lower levels are easier on any mode or npcs.

devs just had bad implementation of the system.

their solutions to everything is to either nerf the problem or get rid of it all together.
they dont try to fix it. and that mentality is shifting on to the players.
having said that, its no wonder that people say ED isn't going far.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/8/2013 11:51:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 27
5/8/2013 12:00:20   
Melbourne
Member

quote:

that doesn't mean its free though.


Honestly? Do you win more fighting freely against level 35's in 1v1 or beating the biscuits out of a computer? Compared to that it essentially is a free win, which is why it was removed.

quote:

ok, and the majority of the NPCs were around lvl 30.
now having the OPTION to fight a lvl 30 or lvl 35 npc, which one are u going to pick?


The level 30 NPC obviously, that's not a valid reason why it should count as a win though.

quote:

no wonder that people say ED isn't going far.


That's purely opinionated and off topic.
AQW Epic  Post #: 28
5/8/2013 12:07:06   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Honestly? Do you win more fighting freely against level 35's in 1v1 or beating the biscuits out of a computer? Compared to that it essentially is a free win, which is why it was removed.

yes you win more fighting actual players than NPCs, because NPCs were limited to 15 NPC battles per hours. 1 vs 1 wins were not.

i see ur still ignorant to call it "free win"
tell me, what wins did those that chose not to NPC, get? since they were "free" according to u.

quote:

The level 30 NPC obviously, that's not a valid reason why it should count as a win though.

thats a valid reason to fix the issue, not remove it entirely.

many people quit after omega was released. many of my friends quit. perhaps this is an indication that perhaps the game was better before than it is now.

quote:

That's purely opinionated

and with valid reasons given the circumstances (bad updates, bad balance, etc)

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/8/2013 12:09:45 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 29
5/8/2013 12:31:24   
Melbourne
Member

quote:

yes you win more fighting actual players than NPCs, because NPCs were limited to 15 NPC battles per hours. 1 vs 1 wins were not.


I meant percentage wise, not total amount.

quote:

i see ur still ignorant to call it "free win"


I call it this because it was whole lot easier to win against an Npc than a regular player, which I'm sure everyone can agree with. Do you really think it's harder to beat an npc than a player?

quote:

(bad updates, bad balance, etc)


Again, opinionated. I don't think the updates are bad, I thoroughly enjoy them. And for the balance part, compare it to previous times in ED. There were times where it was a lot worse.
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
5/8/2013 12:42:59   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

I call it this because it was whole lot easier to win against an Npc than a regular player, which I'm sure everyone can agree with. Do you really think it's harder to beat an npc than a player?

by calling it "free" u are implying that there was no cost or form of payment (because literally doing nothing) to get that win.

whether its easy or hard, the NPC win was not free.
whether its easy, thats a different problem that should have been fixed.

quote:

Again, opinionated. I don't think the updates are bad, I thoroughly enjoy them. And for the balance part, compare it to previous times in ED. There were times where it was a lot worse.

you just pulled the opinion card on me, then proceed to bring ur own opinion.

and for me, i dont think there was any other ED stage that was worse than this. perhaps back in alpha (which i didn't play so for me i guess it wouldn't count) maybe. but since i started playing ED, if there was ever a balance issue NPC provided a good escape route.

you also forget NPCs were the BEST alternative for non variums back then.
now non variums are forced to go against the variums without escape.

maybe Npcs were too easy for a full var lvl 35 player going against a lvl 30 npc, but i doubt it was the same for non vars who weren't fully enhanced or even had missing gear.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/8/2013 12:46:12 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
5/8/2013 12:48:49   
Melbourne
Member

quote:

you just pulled the opinion card on me, then proceed to put ur own opinion.


I wasn't forcing my opinion to represent the whole of the epicduel community. You spoke as if you were representing everyone, I was simply denying the fact that it was true. (If you say you weren't just scroll back up and read what you said yourself.)

.
quote:

you also forget NPCs were the BEST alternative for non variums back then.
now non variums are forced to go against the variums without escape


I was a non varium til level 30 and I did fine without Npcs. For your second assumption it seems you forgot varium gives no advantage anymore except azrael which is the only game breaking varium advantage as of currently.

AQW Epic  Post #: 32
5/8/2013 12:55:45   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

I wasn't forcing my opinion to represent the whole of the epicduel community. You spoke as if you were representing everyone, I was simply denying the fact that it was true. (If you say you weren't just scroll back up and read what you said yourself.)


if u mean this
quote:

having said that, its no wonder that people say ED isn't going far.

then yes, many people have said this. and no i wasn't trying to represent anyone.
i didn't speak as if i were representing everyone, u read it that way.

quote:

I was simply denying the fact that it was true.

saying that ED is more enjoyable/better now to u, is not a fact, its an opinion.

quote:

I was a non varium til level 30 and I did fine without Npcs. For your second assumption it seems you forgot varium gives no advantage anymore except azrael which is the only game breaking varium advantage as of currently.

then maybe now is the perfect time to re-introduce NPCs.
NPC difficulty before was more suited for non vars than it was for full var lvl 35s going against level 30s.
and u opting not to do npc is only further proof that it was optional and wasn't needed u as a player.

and varium still gives advantage. the best cores now come in the promos, so in a way, the game is still pay to win.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/8/2013 12:57:11 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 33
5/8/2013 13:02:04   
Melbourne
Member

quote:

saying that ED is more enjoyable/better now to u, is not a fact, its an opinion.


Of course it is an opinion. Notice how you said "better to u". That means its better to me, my opinion, never said it was a fact. Of course I should have respected your opinion more, my apologies, I read it in a different context.

quote:

and varium still gives advantage. the best cores now come in the promos, so in a way, the game is still pay to win.


The only advantage that varium gets core-wise is the azrael gear. That's 2 and not everybody has it.

quote:

NPC difficulty before was more suited for non vars than it was for full var lvl 35s going against level 30s.
and u opting not to do npc is only further proof that it was optional and wasn't needed.


It wasn't suited for anyone, it was just a way to get easier wins than normal 1v1. To add on, I chose not to Npc because I felt like I was cheating. It was too easy.
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
5/8/2013 13:02:39   
Mother1
Member

@ goldslayer1

From my experience here with their balance changes I have never seen the staff reverse a change they made fully. The fireball and plasma bolt changes are 2 good examples of this. I honestly don't think they are going to introduce NPC back as wins even if the whole community (Which we know won't happen) agreed to it.
Epic  Post #: 35
5/8/2013 13:09:28   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

From my experience here with their balance changes I have never seen the staff reverse a change they made fully.

of course they wont reverse it, doing it will show to the community that they were wrong and made a mistake.
same as how plasma armor wasn't removed when it clearly made CH OP back in delta.
i see this more as being stubborn and not willing to admit one's mistake.

quote:

It wasn't suited for anyone, it was just a way to get easier wins than normal 1v1. To add on, I chose not to Npc because I felt like I was cheating. It was too easy.

a non var (who probably wasn't fully enhanced) vs a lvl 35 NPC isn't something i would have called "easy" match ups.
thats why i said it was best suited for them since it wasn't as easy as everyone claimed.
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
5/8/2013 13:28:29   
Melbourne
Member

quote:

a non var (who probably wasn't fully enhanced) vs a lvl 35 NPC isn't something i would have called "easy" match ups.
thats why i said it was best suited for them since it wasn't as easy as everyone claimed.


Why do you keep assuming every Npc we face will be level 35? When I first tried not and found out how cheap it was is when I was battling the level 26 biohazard. And I forgot but npcs do give exp til level 10 which is enough of an assist for people who do in fact want to battle npcs except for credit farming at higher levels.
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
5/8/2013 13:34:19   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Why do you keep assuming every Npc we face will be level 35? When I first tried not and found out how cheap it was is when I was battling the level 26 biohazard. And I forgot but npcs do give exp til level 10 which is enough of an assist for people who do in fact want to battle npcs except for credit farming at higher levels.

i dont. i suggested that NPC wins should come back, but the system should be improvised/fixed. to present a better challenge for the players. such method would be to have an arena that generates random NPCs with random builds, of your same level.
so you cant pick your npc that is best suited vs ur build, it would be completely random.


im going to show u some examples of npcs.

now look at it from a non var stand point of view back in delta.
varium players on average had about 120 stats when maxed out.
non vars on average had about 60-65 stats or so total (in stat modifiers)

look at
Heavy Mechachillid stats
or
Ebil Hazard


then look at another npc thats lvl 35 (like the player) like
Titan
Slayer
Nightwraith
Frost Demon

as you can see, there is a huge difference from a level 30 npc to a lvl 35 npc like these above.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/8/2013 13:43:41 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
5/8/2013 13:35:31   
Mother1
Member

@ xmelbournex

While I am not for putting back NPC myself answer me this if NPC were truly meant for grinding credits why did they just go and put a cap on rewards? Doesn't that seem rather counterproductive?
Epic  Post #: 39
5/8/2013 13:46:36   
Melbourne
Member

@mother1 Yes it seems very counter productive. I don't know why they did it? And yes as of right now they are meant for testing builds and grinding credits. I am a little bummed out they put a cap as it was quite random... Oh well.
AQW Epic  Post #: 40
5/8/2013 15:56:37   
sky222
Member

Sure, just make the NPC Admin 11 and he has to be solo'ed
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 41
5/9/2013 2:19:24   
RageSoul
Member

@gold
Good idea! Now that's an idea worth implementing .....
AQW Epic  Post #: 42
5/9/2013 8:13:17   
GodFromSouthEast
Member

@goldslayer1 I salute you bro :D They should bring it back .
Post #: 43
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