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6/13/2013 20:34:22   
Mritha
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 A great many of you enjoyed the first forum pvp tournament, though I saw some posts where some of you were not pleased with a few things. We had planned on hosting a second tournament in a few weeks but before we do, we want to hear what you all have to say. Here you can ask questions and offer any suggestions you think would make the next tournaments more fun and effective. The OSGD forum staff will be looking at each post and discussing/considering its contents before the next tournament opens for registration. An example of questions you can answer to help us make the next tournament better are listed below.

What did you like the most about the tournament?

What did you like the least?

What would you like to see changed?


Before making a post, please keep this in mind.
quote:

Constructive Criticism

  • What is it?
    Constructive criticism is being able to process and offer your own thoughts and opinions in order to give courteous and friendly feedback. This is done by explaining what you like and dislike, while at the same time providing feedback that is useful. This is what separates constructive feedback from ranting/complaining and flaming.

  • Does it help? How?
    Yes! Constructive criticism helps because not only are you giving feedback about what you don't like about a quest/event, but you're also giving feedback about what you DID like in the quest. Feedback could include on such topics as statistics, more dialogue, more explanatory cutscenes, more fights - everything that quests or events would normally include. This gives the staff a better idea on future improvements.

  • Example of Constructive Criticism:
    "I didn't partularly like this war because it felt too empty. To have made it better, I think the staff could have had a 50% cutscene to unlock rather than just a shop to progress the storyline. As it was, I personally was a little dissapointed that this war felt more rushed than previous wars, however I do understand that the staff had a lot on their plate when making this release. That said, I greatly enjoyed the boss fight, the animations and art fit perfectly with the song that was playing in the background. So while not one of the best wars DF have done, I still enjoyed it. Thank you, DF staff!"

  • Example of Unconstructive Criticism:
    "I didn't like this war at all. What were the staff thinking? The items in the shop were ugly, overpriced and were bugged!! No cutscene? That was never done before and it is not how it should be done ever. Seriously, doesn't the staff ever listen to us?! The boss fight was too hard and took forever to beat :( And there was no sound. I dont think the staff even care anymore. Best war ever /sarcasm I hate this game D:<!"
    		•
    DF MQ AQW  Post #: 1
    6/13/2013 20:43:39   
    necro rouge
    Member

    quote:

    What did you like the most about the tournament?

    It is a great way for forumites to interact and it was honestly quite a lot of fun in the offweek

    quote:

    What did you like the least?

    I got a freebie into semis, that's just boring.
    it was incredibly messy and the uneven number of contestants didn't help 32 or 16 would be more fair to everyone. having 8 people at a disadvantage is a weird setup.

    quote:

    What would you like to see changed?

    I would like to see the time limits changed, this tournament took a little too long to finish. It should be meet up or be disqualified.
    Again, the numbers, it was just unfair to 8 people to have them do another round.
    AQW  Post #: 2
    6/13/2013 20:47:22   
    Char
    Member

    quote:

    What did you like the most about the tournament?

    I actually thought that the tournament was very thought out.

    quote:

    What did you like the least?

    Freebies

    quote:

    What would you like to see changed?

    I think that there should be a limit to how many people sign up, for example 10 people per tournament. If more than 10 people sign up, then another bracket should be made.


    *Suggestion-aire Rascal*

    < Message edited by Little Rascal -- 6/13/2013 20:53:46 >

    _____________________________

    The only stupid questions are the ones left unasked.
    ~(Char is forgetful of names)

    The List! Is amazing!
    Post #: 3
    6/13/2013 21:41:48   
    DeathGuard
    Member

    		I was one of the two finalist along with Beck and I saw all of the progress in the tournament and I have some points in this:
    1.)Sign up time: It was too short, and didn't offered diversity (20 people enter it, and no more than 14 since some forfeited or didn't duel) so maybe a week signup to give forumers time to sign.
    2) Chart: Brackets made by Balu were good, but there should have been some chart for each round of elimination to make it more organized.
    3.)Forfeits and miss shouldn't be a free pass to next round.
    4.) Time limit for a duel, make it a day and rearrange duels in each bracket and branch to make everyone fight btw themselves and not to have a free pass.
    5.)DCs and frozen matches shouldn't be an advantage, giving out a first turn to the foe isn't something fair for something like that.

    quote:

    What did you like the most about the tournament?

    What did you like the least?

    What would you like to see changed?

    1.) Fighting different players along with different characters with different strategies in mind and play.
    2.)Forfeits and free passes
    3.)Arrangement of duels, it should adapt to the situations, trying to make all players duel btw themselves and not giving a free pass.


    A new requirement: To have a lvl 10 or 20 to make it fair for most players, and not winning the duel due to lvl difference.


    < Message edited by DeathGuard -- 6/13/2013 21:44:15 >

    _____________________________
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
    6/14/2013 2:09:23   
    The Jop
    Member

    		I don't think it was very organized since it took about a week to complete when it was previously stated that participants would be disqualified after 48 hours if they did not show up. Who went first in a match was not previously decided so it was a bit of a mess. Some people also just let their opponent win even though they won more matches, and that goes against the whole point of holding a tournament so that shouldn't have been allowed. Not many people managed to stick to having the winner be the one with the majority of wins out of 6 matches. There was also a big problem with matches freezing; three out of three of my matches froze. I don't think another tournament should be organized until the game is more stable.

    < Message edited by The Jop -- 6/14/2013 2:12:10 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
    6/14/2013 12:03:44   
    Beck
    Member

    quote:

    What did you like the most about the tournament?

    I liked how I got to fight some strong Ice users!
    quote:


    What did you like the least?

    How I only got to duel like 3 people... lots of freebies.

    quote:

    What would you like to see changed?

    The battle requirements changed to best 3/5 rounds.
    Longer sign-up time.
    Shorter time limit for conducting the duels.

    Overall, it was a fairly well-executed tournament. It would have been more fun with more players, that's all.
    AQW  Post #: 6
    6/14/2013 12:57:16   
    Resk
    Member

    		What would you like to see changed?:

    I followed the tournament a little, though didn't post, but in general, single elimination format isn't that amazing,

    I'd suggest either swiss, or double elimination, possible based off of 8 man pods, though for those who are unaware of tournament structures, they go as follows:

    Swiss:
    Round 1:

    A vs B = A wins
    C vs D = C wins
    E vs F = E wins
    G vs H = G wins

    Round 2
    A vs C as both 1-0 -> A Wins
    E vs G as both 1-0 -> E wins
    B vs D as both 0-1 -> B wins
    F vs H as both 0-1 -> F wins

    Round 3
    A vs E as both 2-0 which leads to someone becoming 3-0 and thus overall winner,
    C vs G as both 1-1, with the win happening first
    B vs F as both 1-1 with the lose happening first
    H vs D as both 0-0

    From this, you can get an overall winner, as well as a breakdown of 1st through 8th, which can then be made into a top 4 to determine if needed,

    Double Elimination is the same, except in round 3, H & D wouldn't play, as they had lost twice (this is usually used in tournament of 16/32 players, as it's easier to manage rounds 3,4 and 5)

    Another option would be just to do a pod round robin, whereby for every 4 or 8 players, you divide them into a 'pod' which plays all other members of said pod,

    16 player pod, round 1

    Pod 1
    A vs B
    C vs D

    Pod 2

    E vs F
    G vs H
    I vs J
    K vs L

    Pod 3,
    etc

    Round 2
    A vs C
    B vs D

    blah~

    Round 3

    A vs D
    B vs C

    Round 4,

    Winners of each of the 4 pods, make a new pod, and then pod off to see who wins

    But yeah, feel free to message me, as I do tournament organization as part of my job :3

    -Resk
    AQW Epic  Post #: 7
    6/15/2013 2:21:31   
    Hakunin
    Member

    		1) the even number of battles eliminated starter-advantage, what is important

    2) number of participants with this elimination-order takes a long time to get a winner. Tournament should last maximum 1 week.

    3) 3 days nomination instead of 2 would make people not avaiable on weekend to nominate.

    4) 6 battles take a long time. Maybe 4?

    5) PvP-wise the servers seems to have a problem (might depend on browser?). Try to enhance that.

    6) participation of staff basically guarantees their character will have the best (more rare) CC-cards unlimited, and have a character of their liking on lvl 20. So maybe staff should be disqualified.
    AQ  Post #: 8
    6/15/2013 22:14:05   
    Nightmarefang
    Member

    		heh I didn't even realize there was a tournament. More publicity/ notice for the next one?
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
    6/16/2013 8:32:41   
    Hendrik
    Member

    		Liked the most: Well organized

    Liked the least: Ice (the element of stall)

    Would like to see changed: Only the element. Oh, and please, let's make these tournaments often, I love the idea.

    @above: I guess you need to be more active.

    < Message edited by moroii -- 6/16/2013 9:12:35 >
    AQ MQ AQW  Post #: 10
    6/16/2013 9:00:08   
    Therril Oreb
    Legendary AdventureGuide!


    		 @nightmarefang: Since this is not an official tournament but something organised between the players, a thread about it on the forums is as obvious as we can give.
    AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 11
    6/16/2013 9:14:06   
    Megadragonknight
    Member

    		What did you like the most about the tournament?
    Getting to challenge strong players and win against them.

    What did you like the least?
    There is no restriction in the tournament like player consistently using the same characters in all its his/her matches.

    What would you like to see changed?
    I doubt I will be able to participate in any future tournaments again but I shall give some suggestion that can make it very fun for every players.

    A 3V3 battle instead of 1V1 for both players. Elemental Resistance too since it will be very interesting to see how things will turn out.
    Post #: 12
    6/23/2013 4:56:15   
    Balu
    Legendary AK!!!


    		 The first tournament seemed to go well with most, but I definitely agree that there is need for improvement. The match-ups and the way I did the tournament tree need to be changed. It led to some players having to go through one more stage while others had to wait. Since it was 1v1 some players couldn`t show up to fight and this lead to some duelists advancing without fighting anyone which is not fun.

    We have been discussing ways to improve the tournament and of course, we have been following your feedback here closely. I`ve come up with this Elemental Tournaments idea with the only goal to make it fun for the player base, so we can all interact more with one another, have fun and possibly get better at PvP.

    So we decided to post the stuff we are thinking of changing/updating and based on the majority of what everyone here would like to see, we will do that. However there are a few things that will not change.

    Things that will not change:
  • No limit on the number of players that want to sign up.
  • The number of duels will not be uneven. Like first to 3 wins out of 5 duels. That would give the player who starts first in the first duel a possible advantage.
  • Requirement that the two duelists have to use chars of the same level to duel. This can be a too much of a restraint and really hard to make it work. What if a participant just has one char which is lvl 20 and his opponent has only a lvl 15? The duel couldn`t be held unless one player levels up a char to 15 or the other lvls his char from 15 to 20. Which takes a long time.

    Things we consider changing and want your opinion on:
  • Make the sign up period for the tournament 4 days instead of 3.
  • Shorten the period where a duelist needs to show up to duel from 2 days to 1.
  • Change the way the tournament works to one of the following:
      -Single elimination bracket. Example: http://i42.tinypic.com/xeh8g4.jpg
      This is similar to the way the Ice tourney worked. It`s 1v1 so free passes can still occur but the tournament end more quickly. Also regarding this idea, there can be situations in later stages where there can be an uneven number of duelists left. We discussed it and in case a duelist doesn`t have an opponent, one of us from the OS forum moderation team would act as filler. If the duelist would win it would advance , but if the AK/mod wins, none of the two advances.

      - Setup similar to what Resk suggested. Divide the participants in groups where they have to fight one another. Having groups of 4 players. So each player would have to fight 3 other opponents and the person with most wins gets to advance. In case there would not be enough players to make only groups of 4, we could also make a group of three players. In later stages, we could make groups of 4 or 3 depending on the number of players remaining in the tourney.

      In case 2 players have the same amounts of wins, they would have to duel again to advance. This idea can cut down on players getting free passes in the next stages and can be more exciting. Would take a bit longer for the tournament to end but it sounds fun.
    So, give your opinions on the above. Personally, I would like if for the next tournament we went with the second option which is similar to what Resk suggested and see how it pans out.

    < Message edited by Balu -- 6/23/2013 5:01:50 >
    • AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
    6/23/2013 6:04:58   
    Hendrik
    Member

    		Make the sign up period for the tournament 4 days instead of 3. - It can be shorter, let's do these often, I am already waiting for the next tournament.
    Shorten the period where a duelist needs to show up to duel from 2 days to 1. - Good. Quicker.

    quote:

    Change the way the tournament works to one of the following:
    -Single elimination bracket. Example: http://i42.tinypic.com/xeh8g4.jpg
    This is similar to the way the Ice tourney worked. It`s 1v1 so free passes can still occur but the tournament end more quickly. Also regarding this idea, there can be situations in later stages where there can be an uneven number of duelists left. We discussed it and in case a duelist doesn`t have an opponent, one of us from the OS forum moderation team would act as filler. If the duelist would win it would advance , but if the AK/mod wins, none of the two advances.
    Yes, please. Keep it simple.

    < Message edited by moroii -- 6/23/2013 6:05:18 >
    AQ MQ AQW  Post #: 14
    6/23/2013 7:40:23   
    Highlord Sendai
    Member

    		I'd like to agree with people that better structure is needed, but in a way similar to how RL Sports Tournaments work and as it's proven to work on Forums, through my time on Nationstates.

    Arrange Group Stages at a reasonable number, for instance, on Nationstates the common format is 32 Teams for a Regional Football Cup (Of which I have hosted two. See Campionato Esportiva IV & VI, hosted by the Nations Swyftlandre (+ Apox) and Islo Aiz ens Islo Dorne). In this, I formatted it in Two Stages, the first, of course being the Group Stages. Having a Group of Four, each in a single tiered Group Match. To balance the groups as well as possibly, every team was seeded, while this maybe isn't possible with Oversoul yet, if each team was given a ranking based on their final position and overall W-L-D Ratio, then much like in RL and NS, we could feed them into a RO16 or Quarter Finals, with the Top Two/One in the Group of Four advancing. This of course is a much more preferable solution over Double Elimination and Swiss, which is generally best avoided in a Competitive Sports Environment if at all possible. In a Group, a Win is worth 3 Points, a Draw 1 and a Loss 0.

    What it really depends on however is the number of signups. If it becomes that too many people sign up, what if we set up something similar to Regional Qualifiers into a major tournament. This really is planning ahead now. But when it gets popular, a smaller tournament may be needed to seed people into the main tournaments.
    DF MQ AQW  Post #: 15
    8/13/2013 18:28:59   
    The Jop
    Member

    		The matches should be arranged at set times beforehand, so nobody goes missing for days because they didn't know when to participate in the tournament. If a player misses that set time, I think it's fair to disqualify them otherwise the tournament will be dragged out for weeks.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    8/14/2013 0:54:30   
    Hakunin
    Member

    		At least the starter rounds should be determined by avaiablity of players told, and not fully random.

    The final rounds could be hold at weekend, when people more likely will be avaiable for 24 hour period, thus we can avoid "not shown up" marks.
    AQ  Post #: 17
    8/26/2013 5:37:00   
    Balu
    Legendary AK!!!


    		 @ The Jop But that`s already how it is with the help of the period given to duelists to show up to fight. Disqualification is not desired but necessary since there are always players who just can`t fight duel to real life situations.

    @Hakunin Setting the starter rounds around all players availability is pretty much impossible. You can`t really achieve a fair solution since the duelists are spread all over the planet and live in different time zones. In regards to making the final rounds play only on weekends, we discussed this option but we would like for the tournaments (if possible) to begin and end in the two week time period between game updates, so people have something else to do. if we would opt for using only the weekends, the tournaments would take to much time to end, conflicting with our original goal.

    This tournament had a fair amount of disqualifications due to people not being able to participate due to real life problems and we are thinking of making two changes:

    #1 - increasing the period available for duelists to show up and fights from 2 to 3 days.
    #2 - coming up with a fair solution if the duel goes to match number five because each players has 2 victories each.

    Pros and cons:

    #1 - Increasing the period available for duelists to show up and fights from 2 to 3 days can potentially cut down on disqualification but can make the tournaments last a bit longer.
    #2 - With the introduction of CC, getting first turn in a match is really important, maybe even a decisive factor in regards to the winner. So The Finnish Phoenix has come up with a solution to make it fair when it comes to the fifth match in a duel! Whichever of the two players had the greater combined remaining HP from their two wins would win the right to go first.

    Example: Player A wins twice with a cumulative hp left of 2000 points. Player B wins twice but only has 1000 hp points in total. Hence player A will get the first turn in match 5.

    It`s simple but ingenious. The only downside would be that you would have to calculate your cumulative hp from the fights you won.

    So, thoughts, opinions on all the above?


    < Message edited by Balu -- 8/26/2013 5:38:42 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
    8/26/2013 9:48:17   
    Beck
    Member

    		To address the "Who goes first?" issue:

    The way I did most of my duels in this second tourney is that both players got to go first twice (alternating), and then if there's still a tie, first person to win 2 more in a row wins overall. It takes a bit longer but I feel it's more fair.

    Regarding disqualifications:
    I recommend a longer sign up time for the tourney (I knew some people who missed it who wanted to be in it), and the tourney always be on the Thurs/Friday in between releases.
    This past time the release came out and interrupted duels.

    Don't extend disqualification times though. I feel 48 hours is fair, and would help the tourney finish in less than a week (in time for release day).
    AQW  Post #: 19
    8/26/2013 14:35:51   
    The Jop
    Member

    		@Balu
    But since the 48 hour periods led to so many delays, I think it would work better if participants listed times that they were available (how many hours on which days instead of sometime within several days) so that people who are available at the same time could be matched. The people who are disqualified for missing their scheduled times deserve it because they said themselves exactly when they would be available. The method for who gets the first turn during the 5th match of a series of battles sounds fair though.

    < Message edited by The Jop -- 8/26/2013 14:37:02 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
    8/27/2013 12:28:05   
    The Finnish Phoenix
    Member

    		Thanks for bringing up my suggestion Balu I'm glad you liked it! Beck's method for going first would also work I guess both could be available and it would be up to the players to do what they prefer or something.

    72 hours sounds good to me too, I don't mind the tournament being a bit longer so long as everyone gets a chance to compete.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 21
    8/27/2013 12:35:56   
    Hakunin
    Member


    quote:

    #1 - increasing the period available for duelists to show up and fights from 2 to 3 days


    This evidently WON'T work, as the main reason for participants not being avaiable was to live in different time-zones.

    The ONLY possible and fair solution would be to ask participants first their avaiability, then make the schedule according to that, and then in the final rounds even if people with unmatched schedules for workdays will remain, they'll have most probably no scheduling-issue if the finals are held during weekend, where most people have two whole free days to organise.
    AQ  Post #: 22
    8/27/2013 12:42:02   
    The Finnish Phoenix
    Member

    quote:


    This evidently WON'T work, as the main reason for participants not being avaiable was to live in different time-zones.


    I dunno, time zones didn't really seem to come up in the tournament. But yeah, I suppose if there were a way of coordinating things to fit players' schedules that would be something I could definitely get behind.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 23
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