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mercenaries are OVERPOWERED too much

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12/6/2013 10:37:59   
riddick951
Member
 

 All mercenaries have improved criticals and a skill which give them +25% chance to do critical damage, and they always use very high support which give them even more chance to do critical, so the moderators should reduce the critical chance for mercenaries to make the game fair and balanced, and chance back their energy stealing ability to not steal, only destroy because this ability is even worse than the static grenade, the mercenaries was always overpowered by the skill defense and bunker and the high critical chance, but the makers always made the mages and hunters weaker (they was always weaker then the mercenaries) and in the end the makers made the tech mage incredibly weak, they took away the plasma because the mercs are cried about it because they can't win without critical or rage, and now tech mages got weakened their energy steal and energy regeneration ability.
I want back the old tech mage when it was strong and it was able to take down the already overpowered mercenaries

< Message edited by riddick951 -- 12/6/2013 10:39:15 >
Post #: 1
12/6/2013 10:43:15   
Remorse
Member

^ Their critical chance is the same as every other class.


Just because you lose to Support mercs does not make it overpowered,


If you didn't realize support mercs are actually easily countered where as static BHs on the other hand, now that is a different story.


In fact if someone can show me a build that can consistently beat focus BHs with the current static, without RNG nor requiring to start. ( As a different class)

Then you will officially become the smartest ED player of all time in my eyes.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/6/2013 10:44:02 >
Epic  Post #: 2
12/6/2013 10:50:02   
Ranloth
Banned


 What is fair and balanced? Why is Bunker overpowered? How is defense and offense combo overpowered? All relies on Energy and you can drain it. If you reduce Critical chance, you give it damage boost instead (values) to make up for it - since it loses some damage for higher critical chance.

They need Energy returning skill, and always had Energy draining one. Each class has them since the passives change and it will remain this way. There's no further discussion on it. Some skills each class must have, such as Heal. Energy drain/return falls under the same category.

Mages and Hunters being weaker, in comparison to...? Define weaker and how exactly they are weaker. Some data to back it up with? No, LeaderBoards aren't a valid data source since it's only showing fastest builds that give you fast wins.

You want old overpowered TMs back so it can take down overpowered Mercs? That, is not balance or whatsoever. Biased suggestions aren't considered, at all.
You've provided no examples to back it up with, no level range in which such builds are overpowered, no information about the strategies you've tried to beat them, and no comparison to other classes and how they fare against each other. Furthermore, you don't mention in what mode they are overpowered - is it 1v1, 2v2 or Juggernaut?
Lastly, you don't even mention how they should be fixed, which isn't constructive feedback at all. Do you expect something to be changed through a complaint? What if they change it but you don't like it? Should've suggested what and how it should be changed, and most importantly, why.
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
12/6/2013 11:07:18   
Remorse
Member

Technically everything is subjective trans,

At some point you have to be able to use distinguishing opinions on matters even if they are subjective to some degree.
Epic  Post #: 4
12/6/2013 11:11:08   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

Problem with it is that while this is true, this happens way too often. A lot of the balance changes made were made because of people complaining about them. Take a look at the long gap between the energy cost for cores update and the one before that one.

Many people complained about Overused builds and wanted them nerfed. The staff didn't do anything for a while, then guess what happened? People eventually found counters to those builds which is as I said before how the game should work. When a new build comes you find a way to counter it. However now that balance updates are happening so often due to most people complaining balance is shifted so much that there is no adjusting period. There isn't any time for people to find those counters because the game is consistently changing.

That is also a problem as well remorse.
Epic  Post #: 5
12/6/2013 11:11:59   
Ranloth
Banned


 But if you can back it up with data, then it can be agreed upon - won't you agree? I can say BHs are overpowered and give my reasons for it and back it up with some form of evidence, and it'll be an opinion (subjective), but backed up with facts. ^^
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
12/6/2013 11:13:50   
Calogero
Member

The Only OP thing I see in a Merc is that which we all know off. To much Strenght synergy.
Double, Berzerk, Maul, Atom Smash. It's pretty hard to counter it.

BunkerBuster itself, does it do high damage? Ofcourse but then again those that use it, spam the shizzle out of Tech.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
12/6/2013 11:15:17   
Remorse
Member

@ Mother

Agreed,

But making counters less effective all the time with broken robots/cores is not helping any adjusting to occur at all, which is why when things get slightly overpowered it becomes far worse because they also become hard to counter.


Really to help fix balance they should be looking to create counters that are directed at currently strong strategies, not counters that are designed to stop counters from working against them.

@ Trans,

I agree you do need data, but sometimes you have to allow for disagreements in data interpretations.
For example we both disagree on the term "variety" , you think it is anything that can be used, I think it is anything that can be viable to use.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/6/2013 11:18:54 >
Epic  Post #: 8
12/6/2013 11:24:12   
Ranloth
Banned


 Well, Rem, so far, there has been no data submitted so not much to discuss in this case. :3
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
12/6/2013 11:29:22   
Prezial
Member

Trans, how long did you make your first post? e.e
Post #: 10
12/6/2013 11:31:57   
Ranloth
Banned


 A bit too long? XD It's fast to type it up, more of a pain to format which makes it easier to read - puts emphasis on certain words/phrases. ^^
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
12/6/2013 20:38:02   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

The Only OP thing I see in a Merc is that which we all know off. To much Strenght synergy.
Double, Berzerk, Maul, Atom Smash. It's pretty hard to counter it.

BunkerBuster itself, does it do high damage? Ofcourse but then again those that use it, spam the shizzle out of Tech.


Meh, strength synergy is easily countered by strong dexterity and ninja reflexes, or by taking away energy and other methods for countering strength builds in general. If merc had an unblockable strength-based skill then the synergy would actually work better, but to me the strength side of the skill tree simply doesn't appeal to me. Of course, I still use zerker and maul even with only focus-build strength.
Epic  Post #: 12
12/6/2013 21:45:58   
lionblades
Member

Mercs are not extremely strong at all. The support build you are talking about can be countered with EMP and high str builds. They are far from being OP lol.


< Message edited by lionblades -- 12/6/2013 21:46:22 >
AQW  Post #: 13
12/6/2013 22:35:52   
Predator9657
Member

This thread is hilarious (someone lost one time too many to a support merc). They are a walk in the park if you invest more points into HP.
Epic  Post #: 14
12/7/2013 8:24:06   
riddick951
Member
 

 i want back the old tech mage which had chance, tech mages had the plasma as the only normal attack power and it got reduced by 20 for me and after that the mercs got energy steal skill
predator: i killed the support mercs when they are not 6 lvl above me, so that is not my point but u all told me that if a class find a good build the makers make an update to ruin it, they should made 1 for the support mercs too, but instead of that they give them more power, at least now they took the passive skill defense and resistance, but after that the new tech mage energy regeneration got reduced from 52 to 35 and that's still not fair
Post #: 15
12/7/2013 8:31:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 It has never been 52 Energy return, from the Battery, not even at Level 36. Max was 45 Energy, but the description showed 49 which was a typo, IIRC. I think you're overexaggerating a little bit.

Also, what should be changed? How should it be changed? This forum is for balance suggestions, not complaints. Don't expect something to be done, when you don't even state what's good and what's bad - apart from saying TMs suck, Mercs are too good, etc.
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
12/7/2013 21:31:14   
Pemberton
Member
 

 Mercs are also hard-countered by blocks, as most of their best skills are blockable.
Post #: 17
12/8/2013 7:05:21   
Calogero
Member

Blocks are luck based and is I'm pretty sure not Balance.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
12/8/2013 7:39:47   
riddick951
Member
 

 just give back the old skills and the game would be much better
Post #: 19
12/8/2013 7:49:25   
Ranloth
Banned


 How and why would it be better? What old skills - you mean passives? If so, they aren't coming back - ever. They won't undo the change they've worked on for months.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
12/8/2013 7:49:44   
DarkDevil
Member

what old skills ?
passives were removed because passives werent equal where some like blood mages ending with bloodlust and the other passive being way stronger than other passives while ch ended with 2 shields which both doesn't match how the class work.

edit: lol trans ninja'd me.

anyway the word better doesn't need a magnitude therefore it can't be used in the balance section , sorry but this is not a personal complaining section.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/8/2013 7:52:35 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
12/8/2013 7:51:03   
axell5
Member

@darkdevil well just out of curiousity... how do you think te CH does?
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 22
12/8/2013 7:55:07   
DarkDevil
Member

nah it just doesn't match concept , cybers don't need much dex neither can reduce it so shadow arts was bad , the armor didn't have much effect on the max level compared to other passives.
also hunters should be swift not tough so the idea of a passive armor on them isn't that good.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/8/2013 7:57:23 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
12/8/2013 7:56:31   
riddick951
Member
 

 i meant the old balance shadow arts old plasma malfunction got weakened too i want back that too and i want the mercs energy steal ability to the old version
the mages got useless thanks to the makers, it would be easier to delete the whole tech mage class

< Message edited by riddick951 -- 12/8/2013 7:57:33 >
Post #: 24
12/8/2013 8:00:25   
DarkDevil
Member

the word i want doesn't work here either.
this is not a complaining center , the word better has no magnitude.
we only deal with the word why here , reasons and numbers that's all.

mages got a good buff when retour was changed to battery.
other classes got the neccessary buff due to the increasement of energy importance in game.
it's not perfect but it never was or will be (unless staff starts discussing with players here)

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/8/2013 8:03:00 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 25
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