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Balancing some skills

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12/8/2013 6:48:20   
King FrostLich
Member

Even with the nerf of Static grenade and Static Smash, some skills including static grenade require balance and slight readjustments such as these:


Old Mark of Blood:

- Strikes the opponent gaining the ability of lifesteal for 4 turns with the FIRST HIT using the lifesteal ability(therefore giving you only 3 hits left)


Reworked Mark of Blood

- Strikes the opponent gaining the ability of lifesteal for 4 turns AFTER hitting the opponent(you can now have 4 turns to use it or waste time stalling your enemy)



Old Energy Parasite:


- Deals 75% physical damage with primary, draining the opponent's energy based on the skill's % of energy drain


New Energy Parasite

- Deals 90% physical damage with primary, draining the opponent's energy first turn based on the skill's energy drain, 2nd turn increases the drain by 5%, 3rd turn increases it by 10%(i.e.: Using a max energy parasite will deal 15% energy drain first turn, 20% by 2nd turn and 30% by 3rd turn)
- Energy drain is still based on the opponent's current energy


Static Grenade

- Nerfed by 10 points in all levels
- Still improves with tech
- Recovers 60% of mana drained
- Has an energy cost of 5 at all levels


I could list more but I'm just too tired of thinking of others. Feel free to criticize.

< Message edited by King FrostLich -- 12/8/2013 6:50:24 >
Epic  Post #: 1
12/8/2013 6:56:10   
axell5
Member

oh and also, i think static charge % regain should be 55% but to compensate, make the attack ignore 40% of the target's both defence and resistance during the attack only but only for energy regain effect and not the damage itself
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 2
12/8/2013 6:57:20   
King FrostLich
Member

^The attack is unblockable and cannot stack with rage, it doesn't need any nerfing as of now.
Epic  Post #: 3
12/8/2013 6:58:24   
axell5
Member

but if you're a tank you can only regain 7 energy at max... maybe 12 but thats all when you're a tank
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 4
12/8/2013 6:59:20   
DarkDevil
Member

1. we better have the hp now than next turn.
also in 2 vs 2 your teamate will have 5 turns of it.
2. it will do some problems rounding.
also this will nerf it badly since opopnent will have disposed of all his energy by the 2rd turn.
3. what about battery having a 10 energy cost too ?
see the concept doesn't work that for something to regain energy to have enery cost , it will end with who drains first.
lastly , -10 at all lvls means it will have a base of 0 ? that wouldn't work for low levels.

the ideas are good but only missing some small balance things that make them bad , keep up you can be helpful as you got bright ideas.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/8/2013 7:40:28 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
12/8/2013 7:04:50   
axell5
Member

now about the suggestiong:
1)MoB is a good suggestion
2) instead, what if energy parasite to deal 65% UNBLOCKABLE dmg but the first turn will drain 10%, the second 18% and the third 25%?
3)now.. the grenade we all jhave different feelings to it... uhm... i think it should have a fixed amount of energy drained, cost no energy, and remain with the 50% of what you drained. Also, for the fixed amount... i suggest making it 36 energy at max(wanted it like battery but it's not rounded) and that will make 18 received and 36 drained
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 6
12/8/2013 7:08:54   
DarkDevil
Member

the problem with fixed amount is that they usually scale to lvl meaning it will go way further than just 36 but you will no longer need tech which is rather a boost to the wrong builds.

also the idea of bountys having only 1 skill on tech places bountys at a big disadvantage since the only last build left will be dex therefore the class will be the wrost.
althought bountys have the best snyrgy but the reason it is abused is because there is nothing else , so when other builds are made usefull then bountys might stop using focus builds.
with dex being the only alternative.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/8/2013 7:20:11 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
12/8/2013 7:19:53   
King FrostLich
Member

quote:

what about battery having a 10 energy cost too ?
see the concept doesn't work that for something to regain energy to have enery cost , it will end with who drains first.
lastly , -10 at all lvls means it will have a base of 0 ? that wouldn't work for low levels.



Battery backup for TLM and tech mages can't have an energy cost for the following reasons:



1.) BH has mark of blood for their own compensation of hp gain, TLM has one turn to do that and can be blockable while tech mages often go caster build and are highly reliant with energy.

2.) Both TLM and Tech Mages have their ultimates with lifesteal. BH needs wrist blades for their ultimate and mark of blood to use it with a lifesteal effect. Also, Surgical Strike and SuperCharge require a large amount of energy to be used at medium - high levels.

3.) For a BH with high tech, they barely need a large amount of mana to use their skills which means they can use smokescreen and field medic at a very low energy cost and can also time mark of blood with it. Energy shield can easily be set to level 1 if threatened by caster mages while static grenade being a FREE ENERGY COST SKILL can drain at 40+ energy to cripple caster mages or any other class and get 50% mana from how much they drain, leading to another 20+ energy to their mana for another field medic or smokescreen.




As for -10 to all levels, it's up to the devs to balance its scaling if it improves as you level up. If it doesn't, then they just need to readjust the energy drain at level 1 to something reliable and usable including its scaling rate.

< Message edited by King FrostLich -- 12/8/2013 7:22:20 >
Epic  Post #: 8
12/8/2013 7:28:06   
DarkDevil
Member

the battery having 10 cost wasn't a suggestion it was a concept review of a skill regaining energy to have energy cost.

it is no doupt that masacre needs a boost but i won't discuss it here.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
12/8/2013 8:02:12   
riddick951
Member
 

 Great u want to weaken the tech mage more than before, really it is easier to delete the class because that class looks like can be used only for target practice in nowadays
Post #: 10
12/8/2013 8:21:56   
axell5
Member

who said anything about TM's or nerfing them?
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 11
12/8/2013 8:37:07   
King FrostLich
Member

quote:

Great u want to weaken the tech mage more than before, really it is easier to delete the class because that class looks like can be used only for target practice in nowadays


Looks like someone hasn't been reading the entire text carefully.
Epic  Post #: 12
12/8/2013 11:03:29   
Altador987
Member

for the static grenade i think a nerf of 10 would be going a liiiiiiittle too far why not 5? also there has to be compensation and while 60% is better than the original it wont matter if you need 5 mp to use it anyway, i'm not sure why parasite needs to do a lot of damage as it's an energy drain and regain and the only other attack that does damage like that is assimilation, i think the drain percentages sound interesting, could you explain your reasoning about Mob? i'm not really understanding the stalling idea
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
12/8/2013 11:59:03   
King FrostLich
Member

The reason static grenade gets - 10 points is because it's a free skill. The drain is also too powerful for classes that can't immediately recover their energy especially the ones with high tech. Having a -5 energy still reaches the +40 energy drain and has a +20 gain, giving too much energy control not only for mana usage of the BH but also keeping the opponent having no other skills or cores to use. I've also done a little tests on my alt and I noticed that static grenade does not increase by level so when I put the tech meter to 106(30-36 resistance), it drains 49 mana(recovering 25[rounded off]) which is greater than battery backup can recover energy. I also noticed that at low level that it starts at 10 mana so all the devs need to do is readjust its energy and scaling rate for a slight compensation.


Energy Parasite is quite effective though but in times when people know how how much it can drain, they intend to immediately drain their mana to prevent the skill from completely draining their mana, rendering it in certain cases a little effective than it should be. With the dynamic increase with every turn, it should also make Blood Mages have a slightly better energy recovery especially when people spam skills at them fast.


spoiler:

The stalling part is just a joke though, I only said that to add a little humor
Epic  Post #: 14
12/8/2013 12:11:58   
DarkDevil
Member

the skill cannot have 0 base instead try requesting a reduce in the scale by tech.
this is over no skill has a 0 base , remember this skill can be used at lvl 2 therefore it must have an effect at lvl 2.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
12/8/2013 12:26:45   
kosmo
Member
 

 i like the change to energy parassite, looks interesting, even if im still sure that this skill should not be affected by enemies energy, it should be like the other drains, which steal a determinated number of energy.

and i also agree a moove like MoB has no sence to exist, since i belive all class should have the same tipe of skills (working differently but equal in power and tipe)

for the nerf to granade i cant agree whit it unless tm gets an equal nerf.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 12/8/2013 12:27:51 >
Epic  Post #: 16
12/8/2013 13:21:17   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Axell5, making energy parasite unblockable does not mean anything when it hits so low even at 75% I believe. I hit 5, and I have 45 strength, so it would only be helping extreme strength builds. I also think that 10%, 18%, and 23% are too low because that's kinda the same thing as 15%, 15%, and 15%. Energy parasite currently takes 15% which is 45% over 3 turns versus your suggestion which is 51% over 3 turns. That could even be nerfing it because the enemy will get rid of their energy as the turns progress, and if it starts at 10% instead of 15% that's some energy gone right there especially if they use a lot, such max bunker, mark of blood, high heal, etc.

King FrostLich, I think your suggestion for energy parasite scaling is perfect. As for your suggestion on static grenade, I am not a bounty hunter, but I think that would make it on par with other energy skills because maxed out on moderate tech (86) it will be taking about as much as static smash takes, or as much as battery backup generates. the 10% increase from 50% to 60% sounds good as well because if nerfed by 10 points, but left at 50% it might be giving back too little energy.

< Message edited by The Hidden Legend -- 12/8/2013 13:28:40 >
Epic  Post #: 17
12/8/2013 13:23:39   
Altador987
Member

i see your point but what about those who aren't trying to abuse static or tech and still want a good use for emp and regain, my tech is at 94 as a lvl 33 bh and at max my emp can take 44 however i only use lvl 6 as it takes 39 and gives back 20, if you take 10 off that's only 29 giving roughly ten, and there's no other way for a bh to get mp back not to mention others can steal mine or regain their own depending on the class, it would then force bhs to really abuse tech and max their emps for any real usage and regain, it's honestly not that huge on energy control either if the opponent knows how to counter it, now cyber hunter's generally have a harder time than most as they use mp to steal it and then regain it based on the opponent's defenses but that's a class balance issue not an issue on the grenade itself... i just think 10 is too large a number to take
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
12/8/2013 13:32:47   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Altador987, I think every class has to max out their energy skills if they really want them to be a main part of their build. I don't see how it would force bounty hunters to abuse their tech if its taking about 35 on max with 86 tech and returning 21. Static smash takes about 30 on max(minimum 25 and maximum 40), and is blockable , yet static grenade is a definite way of getting back energy.

< Message edited by The Hidden Legend -- 12/8/2013 13:35:29 >
Epic  Post #: 19
12/8/2013 13:42:12   
axell5
Member

@hidden so you mean hitting almost 100% dmg(90 is really close to 100 thats why i said almost) and would drain upto 65% o fthe oponent energy? would be interesting to see how it goes but idk if it would become too strong or not
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 20
12/8/2013 13:50:51   
The Hidden Legend
Member

axell5, The opponent would obviously use his energy over the turns. If the devs incorporate this change into the game and 90% proves to be too much they can just reduce it back to 75% or maybe 80%.
Epic  Post #: 21
12/8/2013 14:09:52   
Altador987
Member

hidden i disagree with that statement, why should one have to max out a skill for it to be useful to their build? none of my bh's skills are maxed out and he does quite well, the only reason my cyber has a maxed out static charge is because cyber's can't really afford to have less at the moment but i really don't see that it should be necessary for a skill to be maxed to be part of a build especially for hunters who never had devastating one hit skills to begin with
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
12/8/2013 15:18:42   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Altador987, you can disagree. I was not saying that one should have to max out a skill for it to be effective, I was saying that most classes that use an energy skill as one of the main pieces to their build do have to max out their energy skills. You said that you have your static grenade it at level 6, and that it would take 29 energy if this suggestion were implemented. 29 energy for level 6 is not bad it all! That is half of most opponents' energy. That is 17 energy back which is enough for a level 1 heal. Being able to take half an opponents energy, and have enough energy for a level 1 heal with a skill on level 6, seems pretty reasonable to me. So, it will still be effective without being maxed out, but at the same time you won't be able to throw some points on static grenade for a free energy steal of over half the opponents energy, and also receive some energy back. Also, taking 29 energy is about as much energy as most merc builds with max static smash take, AND it's unblockable. Shouldn't static grenade be on par with other energy skills especially considering how important energy is now? Everything costs energy except for sidearm, aux, bot, and strike.

< Message edited by The Hidden Legend -- 12/8/2013 16:15:13 >
Epic  Post #: 23
12/9/2013 13:08:36   
Altador987
Member

not at all, why should all energy and or regain skills be on par with each other if all attack skills aren't? that's the main reason everyone complains about the grenade and how it's "not fair" when in fact hunters don't have a single skill that is offensive that is on par with either mages nor mercs... period, in order for a hunter to do any damage with any skills either the opponent has to have low defenses or the hunter has to be able to cut through said defenses, neither mages nor mercs need to do that, while mages do have a malf the tech and dex build has proven that a lvl 3-5 plasma is all that is needed for 30 damage on someone with 24-29 tech, mercs were the same way with bunker and though recently have raised it higher i still don't see one with a max anything, a lvl 1 heal isn't very useful to a hunter especially not in higher level matches and since when was the idea supposed to be about stealing half of someone's hp? not to mention 29 being half of most opponents' energy is completely based on the opponent's choice not to add mp one can't base a skill off of whether everyone else will decide to invest in what that skill affects. most merc builds with static smash have 23 str and in my opinion that's just flat out unfair for them to be able to steal that much with no investment while it take almost 100 in tech for a bh...
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
12/9/2013 17:13:02   
lampur1
Member

This thread shows why there is bad balance . Whenever you nerf something something op will come out of it. When you nerf a skill whe will find more op skills. Remember that its a really hard task to balance a pvp game. Instead of looking for a Op skill whe should look how well any skill work w the class . You can't balance epic duel by nerfing a certain skill cuz a more powerful one will come out of the shadow . Instead nerfing a skill whe should see how well the class works
together.:3


< Message edited by lampur1 -- 12/9/2013 17:14:36 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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