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RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players

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1/13/2014 16:13:42   
Remorse
Member

Removing loses will be a teriable idea.
You guys seem to think that without loses people will be creative? ?

The opposite will happen in my opinion as all builds will become quick kill orientated with no care or consideration in choices as it would needlessly make the game longer.

If they ever wanted to fix creativity in the future this will be one of the worst decesions because the driving force fore being creative should be to avoid losing.

Just because currently the game is so bad only repetative and obvious OP builds work does not mean it cant be fixed to be being more creative gave you wins similar to how it was in beta at a time .
Epic  Post #: 51
1/13/2014 16:17:17   
Cyber Dream
Member

I for one would NOT like to see losses omitted. In my opinion, it would be better if we had a w/l ratio for each phase.
AQW Epic  Post #: 52
1/13/2014 19:31:15   
edwardvulture
Member

@Gearz: Where have I put down all the other ideas? I'm simply saying mine is logical and trying to back it up. I'm also putting balance considerations to the side because the current balance trends have been to nerf whatever build is on top and that is not good for the long term of the game.

@Remorse: Fear of losing have kept players from this game long enough. You have to consider that not all people are creative. Whatever build trends we see if loses become omitted cannot be worse than what it is right now. I would say Epicduel builds have hit a bottom low in terms of variety because of everyone fearing losing. Also, this differs for everyone, but I make creative build to win or lose my way.

Also, please make sure you read the entirety of the first post. I've addressed on how battle rewards could scale on exp and credits depending on length. The numbers would have to be carefully considered but it can be done.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 53
1/13/2014 19:40:46   
Remorse
Member

^
If fear of losing is keeping people then rather then ruining the current modes.

What if they added a new mode called training mode where you fight players and gain full xp and half credits but instead gain no wins or loses.

People who dont want to lose at all do not deserve to get wins either.


It doesn't matter if you make battle rewards scale to its duration if you take away the cost or loses you take away all effort or thought needed and I will be damned if I have to verse effortless OP builds forever on.

How can you not see the teriable impact removing loses will have on build stratgies and thinking needed.

In fact taking away the effort from battles completely ruins my incentive to play as well as removing hard earned records.
I am proud os my loses and I don't want them gone if it goes so do I.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/13/2014 19:49:27 >
Epic  Post #: 54
1/13/2014 19:52:58   
edwardvulture
Member

^Once again the achievements that scale on win rates somewhere in the first page. And the fact that only you will see your loses in the PBR which you can reset at any time to try to get one of these win-related achievements.
quote:

People who dont want to lose at all do not deserve to get wins either.

That is a truth of reality, however you still lose, but it just wouldn't be tracked down. EDIT:.... to the public but PBR would still take care of it.
quote:

In fact taking away the effort from battles completely ruins my incentive to play as well as removing hard earned records.

How does this suggestion take away effort from battles? If everything goes right, this along with balance changes that actually encourages all builds will make the game more diverse than ever. Once again, you can keep your record and keep them accessible just like how houses are. BUT....everyone will only be able see wins where the win/loses/battles are.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 1/13/2014 19:53:46 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 55
1/13/2014 20:02:50   
Remorse
Member

^
If people don't have to worry about getting a lose on their record then how does it not take away all effort?

People will become lazy and just simply use builds which require hardly any effort or thought if anything class hoping will be worse then ever for that reason.
Some builds win because brocken ED game mechanics make them to hard to counter however they are often not picked because they may be more susceptible to bad luck but if losing is suddenly not an issue then its mainly those builds that will be seen and I wager far less vareity then now with loses and far less enjoyable as well.

Its like Str blood mages in delta, they were incredibly hard to counter and would often only lose to thier bad luck. That build was incredibly easy and was just the same strategy over and over.

If we go back to that style phase because the risks of getting a lose is gone then the game will be terriable in my eyes.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/13/2014 20:10:42 >
Epic  Post #: 56
1/13/2014 20:05:32   
GearzHeadz
Member

Loses won't be gone just because you remove the record. Its like this:

You try to stand up, but someone pushes you down You try to stand up again, and get pushed down again. This keeps happening again and again. One time though you get to stand up. But it doesn't last long, and you quickly get pushed down again.

Even though you got to stand up once, you were still being pushed down again and again, so it still doesn't feel like you won even though you had a chance to stand. So if there is an easier way to stand up, they'll do it. It not being on record won't change that.

< Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 1/13/2014 20:09:14 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 57
1/13/2014 20:26:13   
edwardvulture
Member

(Using your analogy)^Having loses recorded every time you lose is like getting a bruise on your butt. But if you didn't get a bruise on a butt but some kind of chocolate just for trying, you are tons more likely to try again and get back in.

Remorse's quote
quote:

People will become lazy and just simply use builds which require hardly any effort or thought if anything class hoping will be worse then ever for that reason.

Then* they actually lose to the people who try and make builds that go against their builds, therefore people who tries to make creative builds to counter this actually wins more, which encourages thought and effort.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 1/13/2014 20:27:02 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 58
1/13/2014 20:31:20   
GearzHeadz
Member

Not really a bruise. More like some dirt. You can choose to ignore it.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 59
1/13/2014 20:32:14   
Remorse
Member

^ Except you can't counter them aside for increasing your chances of getting lucky.

Epic  Post #: 60
1/13/2014 20:36:37   
edwardvulture
Member

@Remorse: Bring balance in terms of stats+most skills back to the end of delta but this time, HP and MP scales 1.25 and the 10x also stays. Who else remembers all the variety at the end of Delta? If they were really mindless, then surely someone like you who put effort into builds and strategy will be able to beat them.

@Gearz Brush them off? They're stuck on you forever.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 61
1/13/2014 20:37:18   
GearzHeadz
Member

No. I never said brush them off. I said you can choose to ignore it.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 62
1/13/2014 20:40:03   
edwardvulture
Member

@Gearz You can ignore it but others will see it on you.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 63
1/13/2014 20:42:07   
GearzHeadz
Member

That's okay then. It lets them know of your skill level and how much you've played.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 64
1/13/2014 21:08:19   
edwardvulture
Member

*skill level* Please... using overused builds for the sake of not losing is not a determinant of skill at all. The achievements that I suggest are a much better indicator because a lot of us have inflated records including me where a good amount of my 1 vs 1 wins come from npcs.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 65
1/14/2014 20:51:09   
coolboyelazizy
Member

I may support this under one condition.

If they made it just for this imbalanced period we are in.

Cuz (for example) i played today like 50 or 60 1v1 battle and almost all my battelt were against lvls like 38 or 40 (iam currently lvl 36 merc) so i may have won jus 10 or 15 battle due to imbalance.

So i just suggest we may make that suggestion just for this imbalance period. ~DarkTeleport
AQW Epic  Post #: 66
1/14/2014 21:01:35   
Trollok!!!
Member

I'd rather they just bring NPC wins back. And I'm sick of seeing the "This is a PvP game" excuse. Oversoul, another of Artix Entertainment game marketed as a "PvP" game, provides both a PvP AND PvE experience. If players want to jump into PvP they are free to first strengthen up through PvE first. Admittedly they are different games but I like Oversoul's approach better. I'd suggest bringing PvE wins back because:

1) People like being winners
2) It gives more to do
3) Fighting players doesn't really add to storyline, which I feel has always been the strong suit of BattleOn games. I mean when we go up against Baelius, I definitely want that win to count...


Or at the very least have NPCs give EXP and Credits again. Even at reduced amounts would be nice; maybe maximum of 19 Credits and 6 EXP for NPC fights. It's very frustrating to gain rewards by being used as a punching bag in PvP :/. In Oversoul I always make sure to level up my character to max before doing PvP since you never know who you're going to face. This way we can give a chance for all players to find some recuperation from PvP fighting and emerge stronger from doing NPC wins. Not to mention, NPCs are pretty strong in their own right since they retain passives.

< Message edited by Trollok!!! -- 1/15/2014 10:43:12 >
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 67
1/17/2014 19:30:39   
edwardvulture
Member

Oh my God! They took (part of) it!!!

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 1/17/2014 19:32:06 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 68
1/17/2014 21:51:15   
dfo99
Member
 

 damn suggest, extremly unfair for players like angel holocaust for example.
Post #: 69
1/17/2014 21:51:55   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Well it has been done
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 70
1/17/2014 22:13:44   
edwardvulture
Member

angels holocaust asked for it
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 71
1/17/2014 22:24:25   
GearzHeadz
Member

Asked for it?
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 72
1/17/2014 22:26:14   
edwardvulture
Member

S/he said she'd come back if losses become omitted. EDIT: lol NVM s/he wanted complete removal.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 1/17/2014 22:53:56 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 73
1/19/2014 13:59:40   
dfo99
Member
 

 angel holocaust was a example
Post #: 74
1/19/2014 15:35:37   
edwardvulture
Member

She wants complete removal of losses. Like right now, but with the losses bar completely cleared. This would have been possible with the PBR. Where players can keep track of their record or delete it. For example, I have 1000 wins and 800 loses. I clear my PBR. The PBR resets to 0 wins and 0 loses while my stats page still show the 1000 wins because only wins would be shown. I do realize PBR would take a lot of coding and is impossible to fit in just a week unless they work on it an extended amount of time. But the main goal has been reached, so I'm fine either way it swings.

But I still feel the part where battle rewards should scale with duration of battle should be put in. It's completely logical for PvP but not NPC's though.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 75
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