RE: =ED= August 8th, 2014 - Infernal War Plus


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RE: =ED= August 8th, 2014 - Infernal War Plus

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8/9/2014 19:37:35

lionblades
Member

Missions were nice and rewarding, but war is boring.

AQW	Post #: 26

8/10/2014 15:15:15

edwardvulture
Member

I liked the old rewards system a lot more. I was hoping they'd add scaling rewards on top of old rewards. Casual players really don't have enough incentive to play in the war anymore.

AQ

DF

MQ

Post #: 27

8/10/2014 16:00:18

Mother1
Member

@ edwardvulture

While I don't like that part of the change either seeing as the losing side can get more than the winning side if they reach the top tier while a player on the winning side doesn't, the staff wanted all players to be rewarded for their hard work. Could it have been done better? yes it could have, was it? Sadly no. At least with this war the drop rate of bombs is a lot better than the overlord war.

that war had a horrid drop rate especially if you didn't use the commander core.

Epic	Post #: 28

8/10/2014 16:21:02

DeathGuard
Member

Some players on the winning alignment just met the requirements for the prize and waited for others to win the war instead of helping and they could get the rewards with the old system.
With the new system, you must work hard if you want to claim a good reward. You won't win if you don't work hard.
This system favors the hardworkers, not the slackers and the players suggested this themselves.
I think the new system is fair and the grand prize is good. 10k credits plus 10 arcade tokens(which can be bought 1k varium) + a special item just for the winning alignment. With around 12 hours of gameplay in a war that normally takes 2 weeks or less, you can play 1 hour each day and slowly reach the highest influence tier. I have been doing this because with college, it gets harder to play continuosly.

I feel the bomb rate is the same. I get superbombs and bombs around 3-5 fights away or sometimes I get 2 in a row.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 8/10/2014 16:23:10 >

AQ

DF

Post #: 29

8/10/2014 16:25:42

Mother1
Member

@ deathguard

you can still be a hard worker and not get to the medium due to bad luck. The last war was a good example of this. I played hard in that war, but barely got any drops in it. I was getting a drop once every 10-15 wins and it wasn't just me experiencing that.

Plus this new system still spits in the faces of casual players for hardcore players which is also bad for the player base cause as I pointed out in another thread if you are a casual player in the winning side who didn't reach the top tier you still lose out to the hardcore player on the losing side who reached the top tier seeing as the casual winner didn't get the war prize.

It is basically saying Congrats you win, but you get nothing for doing so seeing as the tiered prizes can be claimed whether you win or lose.

Epic	Post #: 30

8/10/2014 16:41:45

DeathGuard
Member

I'm not a hardcore player but still reach the highest tier. If I could say so, I'm a casual player.
Thing about is that they don't try hard enough. You aren't getting bombs? Give it a try for War Commander core. If you are getting more influence that way, keep approaching it if it suits. If not, stick to winning battles and hope for superbombs to drop. If you don't have credits, farm npcs or win normal battles to stack up credits for the cores and in the meanwhile, you may be able to get drops.

Players have all the necessary tools to reach that requirement, if they don't use them, is because they don't want to.
Also just because you belong to the winning alignment, doesn't means you should have a special treatment on the prizes you get if you don't worked as hard as other players in the losing alignment.

e.g.
If you got 40k influence and I got 1k influence and my alignment won, should I get all the prizes you deserve for your hard work just for belonging to the winning alignment? It isn't fair. If I want better rewards, I should work harder as you did.

Something I would like to point out, if someone does 1k influence, does it really affects the war greatly? Not really. If that person wouldn't have deal that amount, other players would have done it themselves. Leaving that player without rewards or no influence.
The reason why the highest tier requires 5k influence is because the time needed for it is what the Devs want the players to invest in this war. They want to take this wars seriously because depending on the winner, it may affect the region's enviroment and story.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 8/10/2014 17:39:01 >

AQ

DF

Post #: 31

8/10/2014 16:48:51

Ranloth
Banned

I wish they War was a bit longer. If it'll be over by the weekend, I'll end up with second tier again, due to lack of time. <.<

quote:

They want to take this wars seriously because depending on the winner, it will affect the region's enviroment and story.

That's still up for debate. I'd rather not hype it, only to find out it's not possible for whatever reason.

AQ

Post #: 32

8/10/2014 17:54:31

Scyze
Member

quote:

Also just because you belong to the winning alignment, doesn't means you should have a special treatment on the prizes you get if you don't worked as hard as other players in the losing alignment.

So the winning team in the World Cup shouldn't win the trophy or the star that is placed on their shirt?

AQ

DF

MQ

Post #: 33

8/10/2014 18:11:56

DeathGuard
Member

@Scyze: They are totally different because they are no tiers in sports on how much you must score or how much you must win to get the reward. The rules , the reward system and many other things are way off from what ED follows.

I will give other example:
If there are 5 people working on a project and it costs points on a class and only 3 of them work really hard while the others from time to time help a bit. Do the 2 who help should receive the equal amount of points that the other 3 deserve? They don't. They helped but not as much as they should have. From a teacher's judgement, they would be given less points.
The more you work, the better your note, or in this case, the reward you get in the war.

AQ

DF

Post #: 34

8/10/2014 18:33:25

Mother1
Member

Deathguard

I would agree with you about the rewarding hard work and not slackers if not for one thing. The way this new war system works makes PVP the core element of the game worthless. Why? Because you get not an ounce of influence from it. You only get it from dropping bombs which Can be brought with varium.

So what this means is that anyone who has a ton of varium can just log on for 2 minutes and drop enough super bombs to get to the required amount while someone who works all day playing has to hope they get lucky with a war drop.

None of the other wars were even this close to pay to win not even the frostland war, and that war was massive pay to win. at least with that war fighting battles even if it was PVE meant something.

If this war was actually rewarding hard work PVP battles themselves would have an impact on the war not just dropping bombs that can be brought.

Cause with the way the system is now I could be a huge slacker as long as I have Varium and get the prize where as in another instance I can be the hardest worker in the world and not have money but possibly get nothing due to PVP having not effect but the hoping for a bomb drop.

Seriously PVP battles need to have an effect on this war outside of possibly getting bomb drops.

Epic	Post #: 35

8/10/2014 18:42:42

Scyze
Member

quote:

no tiers in sports on how much you must score or how much you must win to get the reward

If you think about football, you have to score 1 more goal than the opposing team to win - so there is a requirement (same for nearly all sports). If the other team scores, you have to work harder to get enough goals/points to win. Or can you win a football game by losing 0-2? (Forget the first/second legs).

quote:

They helped but not as much as they should have.

Would you be mad at someone who does this if they have problems in their personal life? If you work as a 5 and one decides to give up, but gives the team a brilliant idea (something that makes you win), would you think they don't deserve the reward?

quote:

From a teacher's judgement, they would be given less points.

Would the teacher know everything that is happening? They can make conclusions but that's theirs, not the student's.
A lot of the whole "they deserve it/ they don't deserve it" comes down to friendship. If they're your friends, you would say 'yes'. If you hated the two individuals, you would say 'no'. If you don't know them, the answer would be debatable.

AQ

DF

MQ

Post #: 36

8/10/2014 19:01:56

DeathGuard
Member

I didn't meant the requirements to win in football, I meant the requirements to receive such reward. If the team wins, all the players wins even if they are sitting on the bench but it is totally different in ED.

Everyone has problems in their personal life and it would vary depending on the situations (e.g. someone close to them die and they are feeling depressed). Also giving an idea doesn't means you're working to develop it.
e.g. You give me a general idea for a weapon, I designed it and it gets in-game. Do you deserve the Epic Artist Achievement? You don't. I'm grateful for the idea but I'm the one who invested time to develop the design/concept. I worked on shading and submitting it. I did all the work needed to make that idea become true.

They wouldn't assume. When I was in highschool, teachers asked the whole group who worked, who didn't and how much each worked. It happens the same in college. They don't assume, they ask and the members are the ones who say what's happening.

And you're wrong. Just because they are my friends, I have no obligation to say yes that they worked. If I'm really their friend, I would say they didn't worked because I want them to learn that they need to work for the points they are getting. If not, they will just fail in college or other places that involves teamwork. If you want them to be consent, that's fine but I don't do the same.
Even if they are my "enemies", if they worked or not would depend if they really worked or just helped a bit. If they were strangers, the work they did would be measured about how much the group work overall.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 8/10/2014 21:11:50 >

AQ

DF

Post #: 37

8/10/2014 21:06:16

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

This thread is for discussing the content of the DNs, not a debate on artwork and who made it or deserves credit for it. Nor is this a thread for thinly veiled accusations and implications of theft of art. If you think someone is stealing art or that someone isn't getting credit they deserve, then contact a Moderator with the issue. I've deleted several posts already and I will be sending warnings if I have to step in again.

AQ

DF

MQ

Post #: 38

8/10/2014 21:21:22

DeathGuard
Member

quote:

I would agree with you about the rewarding hard work and not slackers if not for one thing. The way this new war system works makes PVP the core element of the game worthless. Why? Because you get not an ounce of influence from it. You only get it from dropping bombs which Can be brought with varium.

So what this means is that anyone who has a ton of varium can just log on for 2 minutes and drop enough super bombs to get to the required amount while someone who works all day playing has to hope they get lucky with a war drop.

None of the other wars were even this close to pay to win not even the frostland war, and that war was massive pay to win. at least with that war fighting battles even if it was PVE meant something.

If this war was actually rewarding hard work PVP battles themselves would have an impact on the war not just dropping bombs that can be brought.

Cause with the way the system is now I could be a huge slacker as long as I have Varium and get the prize where as in another instance I can be the hardest worker in the world and not have money but possibly get nothing due to PVP having not effect but the hoping for a bomb drop.

Seriously PVP battles need to have an effect on this war outside of possibly getting bomb drops.

I agree that some players can simply dump varium to meet the requirements but you can't deny they are casual players that work hard and that would be affected by giving the winning alignment's players all the prizes. You could say that the ones dumping variums are slackers in some aspect, unless they buy cores with varium and still do PvP to acquire such bombs. Or they could get normal bombs and then upgrade them with varium. Many situations could arise.

Thing is every hour, there is a limited stock on how much bombs you can buy which Frysteland didn't had. IMO, Frysteland had a worse pay to win influence.
I will try to bring with the Devs the PvP influence in this wars. It could work like the turrets.
e.g. Turrets only could be fired if you earned either 15-20 influence in that area.
What if to launch a bomb, you need to win at least 1 pvp battle to and then you're sent back to another screen when you must go again to the launching screen which automatically would trigger a pvp battle for you to win before you have access to the screen.

If you have any idea that could make PvP influence greater, please lets discuss it.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 8/10/2014 21:22:15 >

AQ

DF

Post #: 39

8/10/2014 22:30:25

Mother1
Member

@ deathguard

with the first 4 wars it was just as bad if not worse. Other than this current war, you could buy as many bombs as you wanted the moment you know what your side will be using. When the war starts those same players can dump the bombs as they please without any real work.

If anything the war needs to be life the war 1.0 for the infernal war. In that war even if you brought a huge amount of bombs, you could only use 2 at a time in battle against the vaults, and you had to actually fight in a PVP (or PVE) match to actually get the right to battle the boss.

Now that war was a fair war because your money couldn't buy it.

Also I said Frostland was better in the sense that in that war you had to actually do PVE to get war points Unless I am missing something with the first war. Where as with one all I have to do is get a ton of varium, by bombs before the war (which IIRC has no limit) and just dump them.

Not only this, but as I pointed out, thanks to this system, anyone who works hard for the war hero cheevo, or World domination cheevo with PVP has their hard work spat on by someone who has money and just drops super bombs for about 2-5 minutes.

Please tell me how is it fair to the person who worked hard and spent possibly the whole day to earn these only to have it snatched away by someone with Varium who logs on for 2-5 minutes?

Epic	Post #: 40

8/10/2014 22:37:17

One Winged Angel1357
Member

@mother in Frysteland you could just buy super bombs without any effort making exactly like this war except this war uses lqs on the bomb store

AQ

DF

Post #: 41

8/10/2014 22:41:23

Mother1
Member

@ OWA

My point was that in that war you could still get war points or influence from battle as well. Even though it was PVE you still had to battle them to get influence as well. However in this war you don't even need to do that. all you need to do is stock up before hand when you know what your side of the war will be using, and then when the war starts dump Superbombs.

So even if they are limited supply with just about all the wars other than this one due to last minute update you could stop up before hand and the only limit you had with them was as much as your inventory could hold.

Epic	Post #: 42

8/10/2014 22:42:26

DeathGuard
Member

@Mother1: I can't tell you how that's fair. I know it is unfair but there is a lot to be fixed about how the current wars are being played. That's why I'm asking you how we could get PvP to influence more the next wars to make it fair.
Like this idea

quote:

I will try to bring with the Devs the PvP influence in this wars. It could work like the turrets.
e.g. Turrets only could be fired if you earned either 15-20 influence in that area.
What if to launch a bomb, you need to win at least 1 pvp battle to and then you're sent back to another screen when you must go again to the launching screen which automatically would trigger a pvp battle for you to win before you have access to the screen.

Apart from this, we could decrease the limited quantity stock bombs and take away the war preparing shops(unlimited bombs selling). I think we should leave the upgrading options and we could make the max drop limit from 10 to 20-30 bombs in the inventory for players who are trying to aim for War Hero.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 8/10/2014 22:45:31 >

AQ

DF

Post #: 43

8/10/2014 23:05:37

One Winged Angel1357
Member

@mother i agree with you but literally the only difference mechanics wise between dread war 2.0 and Frysteland 1.0 is bomb drops from pve and they removed the ability to buy unlimited bombs.

In Frysteland we had at least two people BUY the highest influence achievement.* So to my knowledge that hasn't changed and all you need is a deep pocket and good timing to achieve that goal today
* two level one characters with zero wins have Frysteland war general and possibly more but two were publicly posted on the forums

< Message edited by One Winged Angel1357 -- 8/10/2014 23:06:02 >

AQ

DF

Post #: 44

8/10/2014 23:44:17

Mother1
Member

Those are some good ideas.

But still I personally think they need to make these wars like the infernal war originally was. Meaning you have to fight PVP to get to the screen in order to use the items you have. Add a limit to the amount of bombs that can be dropped at a time and once that limit is reached you have to leave the screen and battle and earn X amount of influence (depending on the amount of bombs you drop) to be able to drop more again.

This is what made the infernal war longer than the other wars besides having multiple doors. With this system in play it would not only make PVP have and impact on battle, but players who have work hard will be reward and not lose to those players who just dump bombs.

Another idea as I pointed out was putting influence back into battles and make it so you need a certain amount of influence to use the items again. The influence needed to use the items could also increase by the number of bombs a player drops. So let's say I drop 10 bombs. For this I would need 50 influence from battles in order to drop bombs again.

This would also slow down the wars which would be a good thing because it would keep players busy, help those who complain about the wars being too short, and the pay to win part of the war takes a super hard nerf.

Epic	Post #: 45

8/11/2014 4:14:12

Pemberton
Member

Do Devs expect players to be excited for this same old type of war which has been the last 5 wars just in different areas?

Post #: 46

8/11/2014 4:24:16

Dual Thrusters
Member

I smell an IA armor o.o

MQ

Post #: 47

8/11/2014 6:22:25

Rayman
Banned

I Dont like the armor thought, they should make the armor come with piston or gen maybe.

Post #: 48

8/11/2014 15:30:23

Ranloth
Banned

quote:

I'm hoping to get the ability to make these war events matter. If trans and I get the ability to create events based off of who wins so we can influence the story that would be great

Now for official explanation:

Since the war is a cycling one, which is almost the same as PvP but with bonus rewards and increased Influence gain, creating story influenced by whoever wins isn't feasible. By the time the region would be fought for again, the story would contradict for future players, and previous missions would have to go rare - something that won't happen anymore unless it's necessary. In this case, it would have no significant benefit, not even story wise because you'd have to go back to it a few months later and create something new. Not feasible, unfortunately - not for a cycling war at least.
That's the final say on it. It doesn't stop us from creating more story, not necessarily influenced by the war, but we can always drop some hints if we were to expand on more NPCs. Nothing major, but hey! :p

AQ

Post #: 49

8/13/2014 0:20:13

DeathGuard
Member

Some weapon set I have been working on for some while ago while working in other assignments for ED.
Lilium Set
Mace and Staff are sketched already, just needing vectorizing and shading now.
Feedback is appreciated.

AQ

DF

Post #: 50

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