RE: Faction Features (Doable and easy)


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2/4/2016 22:01:27

The berserker killer
Member

I suggest these things because other players enjoy it and because it is my right to. I suggested legendary bosses because other players enjoy them and because I have a right to. I suggested legendary bosses because other players enjoy them and because I have a right to. If you cant understand then, what makes you think this idea won't be good for the game and that it will be fun? Im a selfless person, I don't need to enjoy a feature that I suggest.

I know it wasn't like that in the past. I too am a player from the past but you gotta understand that the difference between you and I is that you're living in the past and I hope you don't take any offence to that at all.

So to answer your question:

1) No I don't see anything wrong with that. I couldn't care less
2) I think my idea could bring more fun to the game than problems.

AQ

DF

Post #: 26

2/4/2016 22:11:15

shadow.bane
Member

fun while no one find a place in a high level faction so he get less rewarded while that said player might be more active that all other players in a high level faction ? I don't see the fun in that ! am just saying my opinion because I have the right to.

Post #: 27

2/4/2016 22:14:56

goldslayer1
Member

@Berserker
I dont have to live in the past to see the diminishing population of the game compared to previous phases.
That alone speaks towards the product.

quote:

1) No I don't see anything wrong with that. I couldn't care less

Again, you say you dont care.
By your own admittance, you say you dont care.

So you dont care about your suggestion to actually consider the problems it has, or consider the problems it would bring.
And you dont care what negative effect it'll have on the game. If you lack the empathy to care about the suggestions, problems and the game, then what makes your idea any good?
And it isn't a "right", its a privilege.

A piece of advice, when you're making suggestion for the game, you need to be more sensitive to the issues it could cause.
Otherwise you're contributing to the problem.

@Shadow
He fails to realize how his suggestion creates more bubbles for high level factions and players to remain on top.
By only stacking the odds even more against newer factions.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/4/2016 22:16:38 >

Post #: 28

2/4/2016 22:20:22

The berserker killer
Member

1) I apologize, you misunderstood. I couldn't care less about one player having more wins than another while one has more influence than the other. That's just the way the game is so I apologize for not sharing your persepective on the subject matter but we're all different people with all different opinions and entirely different perspectives on any given subject. I lack the empathy to care about wins and influence, not suggestions or problems with the game. What makes this idea good is that it will be fun and, if I am understanding everything correctly, you mainly have a problem with faction rewards which is simply one feature of this entire suggestion meaning that you don't have a problem with the suggestion (not that you have stated at least) but with that one feature. Feel free to offer an alternate suggestion. I think that would help.

AQ

DF

Post #: 29

2/4/2016 22:25:45

shadow.bane
Member

^ maybe u think it's fun for u but it might not be fun to others @berserker , maybe u can get ur way to a good faction ! I can always pm vix and get my old spot back in CAD , but what about player x or y or z who might even know the game and play the game and understand the game better than me or u or any other in game , u thought about them ? which if they were better in everyway then you will agree as I will agree that he should get the spot in the said factions not us ! but based on our selfishness I doubt that any will give up their sport for a better player to get the rewards that he deserves more than us ! understand my point now I hope ?

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.

Post #: 30

2/4/2016 22:36:04

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

I apologize, you misunderstood. I couldn't care less about one player having more wins than another while one has more influence than the other.

And you continue to misunderstand how issue I sampled correlates to your idea.
If you dont care to understand about how the issue happened, then you're bound to repeat the same mistake. Which you already have, but you dont care.

quote:

What makes this idea good is that it will be fun

That is subjective and cant be quantified. numbers can. Whats fun for you may not be fun for others.
And im sure the issues stemming from your idea, while might be fun for you, will not be fun for others.

quote:

you mainly have a problem with faction rewards which is simply one feature of this entire suggestion meaning that you don't have a problem with the suggestion (not that you have stated at least) but with that one feature.

The entire suggestion is faction rewards....

Ill try to explain why it has issues.
The problems with your suggestion
- Increases influence discrepancies and bubbles.
- Rewards high lvl factions with means with which they stay atop longer. (Meaning lower level factions have a harder time)
- Further adds to high lvl vs low lvl factions by players preferring high lvl factions over low level factions due to rewards.
- Rewards which affect stats, leaderboards, etc.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/4/2016 22:37:36 >

Post #: 31

2/4/2016 22:44:25

racing.lo.mas
Member

@shadow.bane if you are an active player you will have more chance to have a good faction, or you think founders will allow players in their faction that never players.
Best players have guaranteed a place in a good faction. Players who are not that good will have place in factions with a low lvl (although if they are that but they wont mind about being in a new faction. Probably they wont even know that they can get better factions rewards.

Answer me, If you were a founder (I dont know if you already are) who will you choose? An active player or an unactive player?
You are saying that the problem is that players who are active and deserve a place in a good faction might not have the chance of joining in one of them. But you are wrong, obiuously they will have the chance of joining in one. Founders will recruit them for being actives.
Active factions will have active players and these factions will grow up fast.

Epic	Post #: 32

2/4/2016 22:49:53

shadow.bane
Member

^ I am Bane.Hall0w if you still didn't know who I am , I can get a spot in any faction I want even if I wasn't active , cause let me just say vix , keep walking and much more are close friends of mine , hey look both are high level factions , it's about that mate . and ur a founder of a recent faction (omega faction) which became level 10 so u wont mind that and as @berserker u wont be able to see the big picture here ! think it thru and let me know , u know where to find me in game if u want to talk more about this .

Post #: 33

2/4/2016 22:59:08

goldslayer1
Member

@Racing
I dont know how the atmosphere and faction dynamics are now, but back then faction leaders didn't just drop high ranking players or officer for a random newly active low rank player.
There was reason for this. and its that the high ranking player/officer was generally active, loyal, and had some kind of leadership.

All successful factions had to have a nucleus of 10-12 mainstays with the rest being interchangeable based on rank, longevity and activity.
These players that were there since day one and have officer or high ranking positions (Like myself) aren't going be kicked overnight in favor of low level, low rank but active player.

If a faction is constantly dropping high ranking players/officers for new ones with less prestige, then I dont expect that faction to be successful for long.

Post #: 34

2/4/2016 23:21:13

The berserker killer
Member

Well guys everyone calm down for a second. No reason to get all hostile. Goldshock what would your suggestion be, if you would like to offer some constructive criticism that is? Do you suggest we keep factions the same?

AQ

DF

Post #: 35

2/4/2016 23:27:12

goldslayer1
Member

@Berserker
If there's going to be a reward for having high faction levels, it should strictly be cosmetics.
Like a better looking HQ or something.
Perhaps an updated notebot for HQ

This would have no effect on performance, and would be negligible to most players that cant have it.

Post #: 36

2/4/2016 23:28:16

The berserker killer
Member

Hmm well there we go, that's constructive criticism. Duly noted and acknowledged by everyone who goes through this thread. Im glad we can get that settled!

AQ

DF

Post #: 37

2/4/2016 23:49:00

racing.lo.mas
Member

@bane My faction has over 3 years and I play ed since 2010. So stop talking to me as if I were a new player.

@gs1 You are right. All good factions have their main players who were choosen by beeing active. Founders are looking for active players all the time. That's how main players are found.
That's how players without an active faction will have a place. They will replace the players that arent importants. Like it was always.
If this new player is active, he will become good and will stay in the faction. If not, he will be replaced by another new player.

And factions with a high level, who dont let new players join wont be a problem. Those factions are inactives, and their members are just legends who are not playing anymore. The founders are not taking those legends and adding new active players because they are retired.
Players without a good faction shouldnt care about those factions: they are missing the faction's rewards, thats true, but the members from the faction are also losing them. They are inactive, they wont take an advantage of all the rewards they could take.

Epic	Post #: 38

2/5/2016 0:15:53

goldslayer1
Member

@Racing
There's also one important issue regarding these rewards.
And its that the majority of the factions wont really get to enjoy them much.

The primary reason being, that to get to lvl 13, its almost a 2 year campaign for the hyper active factions.
By the time the factions get to lvl 13, they will have already been burned out from the game.
And if I remember correctly, lvl 14 takes almost twice as much as lvl 13.

All of the top factions were super dominant for a period of time.
Then they retire or go inactive.
There's a reason for that, and its that no one can stay super active for years and years.
Factions aren't going to be active for 5+ years, let alone a faction with the same nucleus of leadership.

One suggestion I made before for factions is to allow more than 18 members in. But only 18 count towards wins and stuff.
This would allow factions to keep their high ranking and prestigious players that are now retired, without taking up a member slot.
Think of it as "Legacy Members". (They should still have Officer/leadership powers)
Legacy Members dont take up a spot, It shows their influence and faction accomplishments, and whatever activity they have doesn't count towards the faction.

The reason I say this is because it terrible, it sucks, and it would be a shame to kick an inactive player that contributed so much to the faction before.
The faction's history is literally written in its members, and kicking them would feel like you're erasing that.

Then the other issue is that you cant have more than 1 leader.
Only the founder can kick players. So if the leader goes inactive, your faction is done.

If they allowed factions to have up to 3 leaders, and Legacy members like mentioned above, then maybe you'd see more old factions kicking.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/5/2016 0:16:57 >

Post #: 39

2/5/2016 3:05:56

The berserker killer
Member

Thank you everyone for your replys. If there are any more questions or concerns I would be more than happy to answer them!

AQ

DF

Post #: 40

2/5/2016 13:42:20

Cyber Dream
Member

quote:

If there's going to be a reward for having high faction levels, it should strictly be cosmetics.
Like a better looking HQ or something.
Perhaps an updated notebot for HQ

This would have no effect on performance, and would be negligible to most players that cant have it.

quote:

All of the top factions were super dominant for a period of time.
Then they retire or go inactive.
There's a reason for that, and its that no one can stay super active for years and years.
Factions aren't going to be active for 5+ years, let alone a faction with the same nucleus of leadership

No, the reasons why factions aren't going to be active for 5+ years is because of the updates surrounding the game. Cosmetics aren't going to keep factions active, but some of the stuff that was suggested in this thread would. Plus a few other things.

Not having rewards that carried on to battles would also have a short term effect and not keep players/factions engaged. Once the reward is earned then what? I see that an big issue here is the massive gaps in influence. Player a has more influence than player b when player a has more wins. The main reason for this if for the p2w wars which we suggested to be changed countless times. I can see why you guys have an issue with this suggesting considering the influence reward. I would suggest keeping influence the way it is and bringing in an alternative to influence that is similar to the system that we had while lowering the exp and creds rewards by ALOT.

Another thing, there are more players than you think in Epicduel. They're just not logged in at the same time. Lower factions CAN compete with higher factions, take me for example. When I came back to ED, I could've joined any faction I wanted to. But instead, I made my own faction of new/unknown players. We won the daily almost everyday. Most of these players are now higher levels and with bigger facs.....only because I stopped playing. My point is that you guys are thinking about this in the wrong way. Anyone can make a good faction if they actually took the time to recruit/manage in their factions. Players won't automatically join a faction because of the level. Just present yourself in a good way with decent goals for the faction and the faction you are managing would be in competition with higher factions in no time.

Made a small change, I mean "cosmetics AREN'T going to keep the factions active.

< Message edited by Cyber Dream -- 2/5/2016 17:50:08 >

Post #: 41

2/5/2016 14:10:39

The berserker killer
Member

All of which are great points Cyber Dream. See the thing is that when you offer a player with something like a cosmetic, they get it and then what? Nothing else. Congreats, you have the cosmetic. it's a short lived feature that cant possibly keep players busy for the weeks/months that it takes devs to come up with a decent update.

Now, of course, every number stated in the OP is up for discussion which is why I formally suggested this here in the suggestions thread instead of informally (as some players do) on twitter.

I'm hoping this player base can unite now, especially forum mates, and try to make this game potentially better. Is every faction going to be able to enjoy these features? Yea. Will they enjoy all these features? No. But is every player ranked a Legend? Is every player ranked a Demigod? No. But it still gives some players something to look forward to in the meantime

AQ

DF

Post #: 42

2/5/2016 15:07:15

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

No, the reasons why factions aren't going to be active for 5+ years is because of the updates surrounding the game. Cosmetics are going to keep factions active, but some of the stuff that was suggested in this thread would. Plus a few other things.

Yeah when I said "they will have already been burned out from the game" that included the way the shape of the game continues to change.
If changes are negatives, players will eventually get burned out from it.

quote:

I see that an big issue here is the massive gaps in influence. Player a has more influence than player b when player a has more wins. The main reason for this if for the p2w wars which we suggested to be changed countless times.

Yeah when influence first came out, a lot of people agreed that it would be nice if special events (i.e. game wars) gave more influence.
The problem was, they gave too much.

Regular battles gave 5 influence, but war battles gave 10. (I believe this was in the Infernal war) BUT there was another way to get another 30 influence.
So while a regular PvPer got 5 influence, you had a guy doing war getting 40 in the same amount of time. They completely screwed it up and it backfired.

It would have been nice if war rewarded more influence, but not 2-8 times more.
A simple, 6 influence per war battle, as opposed to 5 influence in regular battles, would have been much better.

quote:

Another thing, there are more players than you think in Epicduel. They're just not logged in at the same time.

The same can be said from previous phases.
However I have a hard time believing that, seeing how much complaining I've seen so far regarding botters.

quote:

Lower factions CAN compete with higher factions, take me for example. When I came back to ED, I could've joined any faction I wanted to. But instead, I made my own faction of new/unknown players. We won the daily almost everyday. Most of these players are now higher levels and with bigger facs.....only because I stopped playing. My point is that you guys are thinking about this in the wrong way. Anyone can make a good faction if they actually took the time to recruit/manage in their factions. Players won't automatically join a faction because of the level. Just present yourself in a good way with decent goals for the faction and the faction you are managing would be in competition with higher factions in no time.

Sorry if I come off as elitist here, but I wasn't referring to "little league" factions. I was more referring to all-time LB factions. Like the ones in the Top 10.
Sure, some small time factions can and will compete, but for how long really? the true testament of dominance in factions is their longevity. and how long they've stayed on top for.
All of the top factions stayed atop for a long period of time, otherwise they wouldn't be up there in the ranks.

I've seen and played against many small and new factions that competed, but they generally didn't do it for more than 2 or 3 months.
I could name you dozens of small time factions that were competitive but didn't last long, if only I remembered their names.

By your own admittance here, it seems your faction didn't compete for long. The reason being that you stopped playing.
Which kind of proves my point. Whatever amount of time you played while being competitive, it pales in comparison to the LB factions.

Activity and longevity starts and ends with the leadership. (Leadership doesn't mean just 1 person).
When the leaders aren't active, the members soon follow.

Which is why the faction system needs revamping.
Multiple leaders, unlimited Legacy Members, Legacy Leaders, etc.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/5/2016 15:16:09 >

Post #: 43

2/5/2016 18:04:19

Cyber Dream
Member

quote:

Activity and longevity starts and ends with the leadership. (Leadership doesn't mean just 1 person).
When the leaders aren't active, the members soon follow.
quote:

That statement is true, but it's not the whole problem. You can have a faction with great leadership, but in due time.....if there are no updates surrounding factions then the faction will go inactive and fail. Leadership can't keep a player playing Epicduel. Again, take me for example. I used to be in a faction called, Noobz. I had a ton of influence there, the leadership was great. This was prior to the influence change....Once the influence got changed to where you could only get it through wars, I lost interest in staying loyal to a faction. It takes more than leadership to keep a faction going. It all comes back to the updates surrounding the faction system.

Everything you are suggesting is based around keeping players in the faction who no longer play or players who've been there a while and don't wanna get kicked due to their influence. How would this benefit the faction competition? In many ways, it would hurt it. Here's how: "Hey wanna join my faction? No, my faction is pretty good. But your faction has noobs, My faction has a lot of old legends and pros here. Join us so you can look cool." You also suggested that these legacy players won't contribute towards wins? Although I love the suggestion, it's pointless. Now the multiple leader suggestion I can strongly agree with. If we had this feature back in the day, a lot of factions would still be around. Especially the older factions.

Post #: 44

2/5/2016 19:00:25

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

You can have a faction with great leadership, but in due time.....if there are no updates surrounding factions then the faction will go inactive and fail.

I find this notion to be bogus.
Faction's barely got any improvement at all since beta. The way the "Influence" system was implemented didn't end up as an improvement.

Then they got rid of the Flags and Tokens. Not because it was bad, but because a faction had put in over 140K tokens into a single flag. and statistically, no one else could capture that due to lack of tokens. but they forget it takes months to farm 140K+ tokens.

quote:

Leadership can't keep a player playing Epicduel

You fail to understand how all time factions operated.
Leadership cant keep players playing, while thats true, that's not what they're supposed to do.
When an inactive players goes inactive what does the leader do? replace him with an active player.

quote:

Everything you are suggesting is based around keeping players in the faction who no longer play or players who've been there a while and don't wanna get kicked due to their influence. How would this benefit the faction competition?

Yes, the idea is that inactive players dont have their faction history wiped off when kicked for inactivity.
Think of it like with sports team, retired players no longer play, but their accomplishments are still there in the team's history for the public to see. Like their own private "Hall of Fame" if you will.
The idea is the same here with Legacy Members, It would allow factions to keep their retired players in without erasing their accomplishments within the faction and taking up a spot.

And how does this help competition?
Well first, if you're a player looking for a faction, you want a faction that's good, and isn't gonna kick you out the minute you go inactive for a couple weeks, correct?
So if you're a guy looking for a faction, and you look at the faction's long list of legacy members, you're going to know that your activity in this faction wont go down the drain if you cant play for a couple of weeks.

Second, It also helps competition within the faction.
If you see a legacy member with a TON of contribution, some would like to match or surpass that contribution.
It would help players measure their impact in a faction to players of year's past.

Third, it gives an incentive to not faction hop.

Fourth, Again this one IMO is a big reason, and I dont see why anyone would disagree with this.
The faction's history is written by and in its members. Kicking them, whether active or not, is erasing that.

When a new player joins a faction, that player doesn't know the faction's history, because he doesn't know who the prior members were.
How cool would it be if you joined a faction, and one of the Legacy Members is Comicalbiker, E Z R A, or Deathnightmare? (All former members of CAD)
All players who've had significant activity through out their playing time, whose faction accomplishments would be erased if they went inactive. Or otherwise hinder a faction from being competitive if they use up spots for inactive members.

quote:

Now the multiple leader suggestion I can strongly agree with. If we had this feature back in the day, a lot of factions would still be around. Especially the older factions.

Yeah, many suggested a founder "Step down" where it would give faction leadership to someone else entirely. but they said it wasn't possible.
So I've been suggesting multiple leaders instead. Leaders who have the same powers as founder except for disbanding.
Officers can recruit, but that's it, they cant kick. This is why factions dont last long if the leader goes inactive.
Its a very limiting system, and Legacy Members and multiple leaders would give a lot more options for factions.

Post #: 45

2/12/2016 2:17:03

nowras
Member

Clash of Clans uses the clan perks system and it actually succeeded because of that system.

Sure people would like to join the high level factions, but let's just say, if all factions got full, which faction would you join?
As there're no factions; you're going to make a new faction. Others are going to join you because they also couldn't find a faction, so factions are going to be stronger and there's going to be more competition between factions and for the daily rewards.
this is going to make the game more fun; that's why this suggestion should be implemented.

< Message edited by nowras -- 2/18/2016 13:40:08 >

Post #: 46

2/12/2016 5:47:57

goldslayer1
Member

@Nowras
Clash of Clans doesn't have a player count of ~300 (Or less) online at anytime through out the day.
It might work in clash of clans, but it doesn't mean it would work here under the current circumstances.

Clash of Clans probably spent more in advertisement than ED has earned in its lifetime. (Just to give you a sense of scale)

Post #: 47

2/13/2016 18:00:43

The berserker killer
Member

That's a great point nowras, that a lot of people seem to be forgetting: it will be fun. It seems as if a lot of individuals on forums have forgotten not only what fun feels like but exactly what fun is, in and of itself. It's really sad. But I know that if there are no flash limitations that devs will do everything they can to pay attention to faction features

AQ

DF

Post #: 48

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