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Harbinger Feedback
Too strong (post PvE or PvP)
  1% (2)
Too weak (post PvE or PvP)
  14% (15)
Is this class useful to you? YES
  12% (13)
Is this class useful to you? NO
  9% (10)
Is this class fun to use? YES
  17% (18)
Is this class fun to use? NO
  6% (7)
Will this class replace any for you? YES (post which)
  0% (0)
Will this class replace any for you? NO
  18% (19)
Would you rather use another class? YES (post which)
  16% (17)
Would you rather use another class? NO
  1% (2)


Total Votes : 103
(last vote on : 3/7/2018 5:13:14)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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3/2/2018 14:03:57   
Shadowhunt
Member

Heeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyy everybody!

I'm trying something different out for this class release by making a poll and having all feedback be posted in this thread. Hopefully it'll make it easy on us when we're evaluating the feedback to do a post-release analysis of the class.

As alluded to in the options, for the class comparison questions, it would be most helpful if you could state which classes you'll either replace or rather use. If you wish to post the why for any/all your answers, that would also be very helpful!

I'd also encourage you all to do some pretty thorough testing of the class before voting here. Ranking it up to 10 isn't a great way to determine how it'll perform in every situation, so rank it up by all means but then go actually try it out! Try it on easy bosses, hard bosses, regular mobs, the works. The more thoroughly you test it, the better your response will be and the greater an impact it could have on changes to the class.
AQ AQW  Post #: 1
3/2/2018 20:35:11   
Apeiron
Member

So far the only thing I can say is this:

Man, those ghost faces are 2spooky


EDIT: I've tested the class in /bludrutbrawl at Artix and the damage it can dish is insane, I made around 10k crit with a full stable wep (dual unarmed) and some girl hit me for 16k with NSoD.
Soul Snare is too good and it can make most classes useless for a while. I mean,10 seconds is just too much but I guess it's useful against classes like VHL.
More tested is needed, since /bludrutbrawl is empty atm and I've fought only a handfull of classes (and most were Harbringers).

< Message edited by Apeiron -- 3/2/2018 21:23:33 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 2
3/2/2018 20:37:16   
you stop
Member

tried the class. it seems that:
1. the self damage of Blood Price stacks with it's own damage buff
2. the self damage is also increased by damage increasing weapons such as Burning Blade
3. i saw one guy with NSoD trying to stack it. He killed himself with his second stack (he was at full hp)

this is gonna be a tough class to use for those with NSoD xd


EDIT: i tried the class and boy oh boy does it do so much damage. but still, i do not recommend using even at least burning blade of abezeth with this class. i was using a 15% dmg increase weap and i still almost killed myself from full hp (on 4th stack already) + monster damage

< Message edited by you stop -- 3/2/2018 20:51:14 >
AQW  Post #: 3
3/2/2018 21:39:56   
Aura Knight
Banned


 Only problem the class seems to have is that the rank 5 skill can kill you. I suppose the boosts are nice but dealing near 1800 damage to self after 2 uses seems a bit crazy. Other than that, class seems alright. I have to get the final rank on it and will then give slightly better feedback but for now it's definitely better than what it was before. I like it. Not sure it'll be a replacement for other classes but still fun.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 4
3/2/2018 21:42:24   
Arcane Energy
Member

CD on skill one is too long and rank 5 buff can kill you in 2 uses....
A better version of classic SC(of course) but it's like glacial berserker with less crits and higher chance to die.

Post #: 5
3/2/2018 22:16:15   
Aura Knight
Banned


 Could the skill that makes a monster have a 90% hit chance reduction also have a chance effect to reduce incoming damage instead? Similar to the surge skill on the chaos slayer classes. The damage the last skill does to us is a lot more than the heal can keep up with. By giving the 4th skill 2 effects, this could help keep us alive longer as with a reduced incoming damage effect we should be surviving longer even if using the last skill multiple times. Of course the change could also be a removal of the stacking effect on skill 5, which would allow for a better boost faster and to compensate for this increased damage, maybe a slight increase to the other skill cooldowns. The heal would be better if it was a guaranteed heal and not one based on how much damage we dealt. Or at least have that be a guaranteed to hit skill. I'm just brainstorming now. Class seems okay but there are unfortunately some flaws with it. I'm sure it's fine for pvp since it's got the burst damage thing down near perfect, but for PvE, it's not so amazing. I do like the skill animations. Plenty of blue which is nice. Maybe I need practice with the class.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 6
3/2/2018 23:03:00   
you stop
Member

i think they should get rid of the rank 4 passive that gives 15% increased damage taken (or was it 10). i think that also helps 5 in killing you lol. theres already 5 skill doing huge amounts of self damage. that rank 4 passive is too much imo. and oof, the other rank 4 passive increases the damage you do. thats fine for me bc it makes the class what it is in terms of damage. just the self dmg increase should be removed

< Message edited by you stop -- 3/2/2018 23:04:45 >
AQW  Post #: 7
3/2/2018 23:17:15   
NEOCROM
Member

Guys, a little question about this class, is this similar in damage and healing with the Void Highlord class?
AQ  Post #: 8
3/2/2018 23:49:18   
Doxus the OverLord
Member

@NEOCROM
Man, this class is about using mana with all skills except for the last one.
The buff the last skill gives is nice but it should be nerfed.


So, here my thoughts:
Hit Chance needs to be buffed.
Damage Receipt needs to be buffed, class needs a skill with damage reduction or maybe an increased healing. Plus, the healing spell (as a damage-draining skill) should be unmissable for better sustain.
Instead of just hitting yourself, the last skill could be something as we currently have with Legion Paladin: a self-inflicted DoT.
About PvP, it hits really heavy. Anyway, guarranteed-hitting-classes can kill it. The stun replacement for hit chance for this kind of classes will be useless.
I should try unstables. Tomorrow I'll try using -15-75 damage range. Let's see how it performs out.
Anyway, surely the last skill needs to get buffed by reducing the self-inflicted damage.
About passives, I think the last one (+20% END) should be raised from +20% to +50% or, at minnimum, +40% END. This would greatly improve the damage and make the last skill not kill us due to the use of it. I'm not talking about excessive use of the last skill. I'm just saying that something needs to be adjusted in order to make possible the last skill effect be stacked. Just this.
Post #: 9
3/3/2018 1:25:59   
Luux
Member

The class is fun to use when you don't accidentally kill yourself. Other than that it's incredibly impractical and every other class can do whatever it does better. The last skill is impossible to stack and the dps on it in general has much left to be desired. Overall it could use improvements and has so much potential but it's a step in the right direction.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 10
3/3/2018 1:41:22   
dslayer265
Member

Fun class, but sadly let down by the fact that you'll end up killing yourself quite a lot of times if you're not careful and lack of damage resistance. Also, 4th skill is impossible to stack because of the self damage. I suggest have it drain like 45 or 50% of current health so it does not kill you. Like what aura knight said, might be nice to add damage mitigation on the 3rd skill,or remove the 15% more damage taken passive. Also, maybe add stacking crit chance on the 4th active skill?

< Message edited by dslayer265 -- 3/3/2018 1:44:49 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 11
3/3/2018 5:31:19   
Loftyz
Member

I'm going to take this class to test server with +185% dmg to all monsters (NSoD, Doomlord, '17 TLaPD pet, Malice potion) and try to not kill myself using potions/other class buffs. Evolving to a new level of gameplay and unlocking the secrets to humanity as we speak.
DF AQW  Post #: 12
3/3/2018 6:11:38   
iDreadnaut
Member

The class is fun, but I'd still use Glacial Berserker over it.

- Auto attack deals nice damage. Check.
- Soul Rend deals nice damage, ok cooldown, synergies well with all the other skills. Check.
- Soul Leech heals a good amount of health, but unfortunately it's not enough to keep up with Blood Price. I suggest you guys decrease the cooldown or increase the heal effect, or even add some damage reduction to synergy better with Blood Price.
- Soul Snare is excellent. Check.
- Passives: +15% damage received and dealt. If these make us receive +30% damage from Blood Price, these passives are horrible. Good opportunity to switch these for something useful for this class, like more HP, damage reduction, healing effect increase, or more haste.
- Blood Price... THIS, This skill needs tweaking, mainly in the self-damage department. I can't use it with the Necrotic Sword of Doom (NSoD) simply because the self-damage is affected by damage boosting weapons, passives, and buffs. With NSoD, it deals 1357 self-damage on first use and 2773 damage from second use on, which is more HP than I have.
What really ruins this skill for me is not the self-damage, but the fact that we have to stack it and how its buff affect our ability to stack it.
Tweak it to give us a full buff on single use (+120% damage and +25%~+30% critical damage), instead of stacking it. This solves the issues I have with Soul Leech and both passives (or at least one of them, still not a fan of received damage increase, but I can see how it can help the class).
AQW  Post #: 13
3/3/2018 6:48:38   
XeNON_54
Member

Wait... I thought we could get the new class by trading in our old class like with the Classic Legion Doomknight?
Do I really have to waste another 2k LTs just for a revision?
Post #: 14
3/3/2018 8:57:52   
1997p3
Member

I feel like the last skill really spoils the fun in this class, would it be possible to change the damage dealt to self to be a fixed % of out HP (current or total) instead? The boost doesnt feel justified for the uncertainty in stacking the last skill
AQ MQ  Post #: 15
3/3/2018 10:30:31   
Beshin Adin
Member
 

 This class's best strategy can be founded on its first skill
AQ AQW  Post #: 16
3/3/2018 12:32:02   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


 As basically everyone else has stated already, the last skill it what kills the class, both literally and figuratively, it's definitely where the problem in the class lies. Now I can see a good reason to having this high self damage. You want to stay as low as possible at all times, but lets say you are in a party with a stonecrusher, now you suddenly have high damage resistance and extra healing, so being able to get very low on your own is a good thing, although you can still easily kill yourself through all that with NSoD anyways if you are not careful.

As Idreadnaut has already said, the problem is not necessarily the self damage, but the fact that there's a stacking mechanic in the skill which has a VERY limited timeframe, it's more or less impossible to stack "Exalted" without support classes and I am not even talking with the use of damage boost items. If you really want to keep the stacking mechanic without changing the self damage, give us a larger timeframe for "Exalted", that way you can stack it without needing almost kill yourself with the insane damage dealt by Blood Price while your damage is still buffed. Or just make it an instant buff like Idreadnaut said.

Soul Rend is fine. At low enough hp I have done upwards of 10k+ crits (no damage boosts). The cooldown is maybe a tad bit too long, on top of the auto attack being 3 seconds long, it makes the class feel slow. I heard someone compare this to Glacial Berserker, which sounds about right, but even with Glacial Bersereker's cooldowns being longer in general, Exalted Harbringer feels way slower in comparison.

Soul Leech is just your average life steal ability, not much more to be said about it. 1 heal is about equal 1 unbuffed use of Blood Price.

Soul Snare is amazing, it's more or less 10 seconds of invulnerability, which is nice, because it means you can set yourself up with low hp, use Soul Snare and then use ~2 high damage Soul Rends without the risk of dying, or at least a very minimal risk. I still don't think I have had any enemy hit my while Soul Snare has been active. And with a Stonecrusher by your side, it's more or less loopable, which means it can maybe be used as a higher DPS replacement for Archpaladin.

Overall, it's an above average and fun class in it's current state, it has massive damage potential, but it's very tough to not constantly kill yourself. It can solo well enough, I have been able to solo both Maximum Slugfit and Dire Groglurk with it, very consistently, but that power bump on Evolved Fear Muncher is still too much, although that is still impressive considering that boss is where mostly any class that isn't VHL or Archpaladin stops being able to solo bosschallenge bosses. It does mean you will need to keep yourself at a higher hp to not die when Soul Snare fades, decreasing your damage output from Soul Snare.

< Message edited by Metakirby -- 3/3/2018 12:33:59 >
AQW  Post #: 17
3/3/2018 12:36:53   
Loftyz
Member

Potions don't work on testing server, so with Fighter enhances and +111% damage to all monsters from equips, the 5 skills hits me for 1992 & then 4071 (Full Luck is 1862 & 3805)

And when Stonecrusher's -50% damage skill is applied, you only hit yourself for 592 - 1210 (-70.3%, and its magnitude effect just doesn't work. Appears to be testing server only). At least others can shield you from your own damage.

I like how the class is simple & straightforward, but difficult to use to its maximum potential. You have to hover at low HP, debuff the enemies hit chance so they can't kill you in 1 hit, heal at the right times so you avoid dying when 4 runs out & can stack 5 before it runs out, and hit big damage with your 2 while your HP is low. The only part I dislike is that it's so awkward to play Solo. The cooldown of 2 is so long and the damage is low compared to the risk you take by staying at low HP. The heal is also very low, so a lot of times, you'll have to wait for 5 to fade and then apply it, just so you don't kill yourself from the +120% buff. You're only sacrificing a 4x8% crit damage multiplier by doing this, so I disagree with people saying the self-damage ruins the class.

Also, Blood prices buff is around +104%, according to my testing with a stable weapon. And the +8% crit damage multiplier works the same as Potent Destruction Elixir, meaning it's terrible.

The formula for applying +% crit damage is not:
Hit = 300, crit = 1000, so 4 Exalted stacks multiples the crit damage by 1.32
1000 x 1.32 = 1320

The formula is:
Hit = 300, crit = 1000, so 4 Exalted stacks adds another 32% of the Hit onto the crit damage
(300 x 0.32) = 96
Crit = 1000 + 96
Crit = 1096

I wouldn't even bother stacking. Just let the 5 expire and reapply it when you're ready to.
-------------------

I think this class should be dealing single digit damage at full HP, and around the DPS of VHL when you're at 5% HP left. Like an all or nothing class. I do think the 4 should only reduce the enemies chance of hitting YOU by 90%, because it's completely broken in parties unless every boss is immune to it. The whole class just feels a bit unrewarding for the effort you put in, especially for people with strong classes that deal much higher damage without needing to take risks or play in a certain way.

< Message edited by Loftyz -- 3/3/2018 13:56:06 >
DF AQW  Post #: 18
3/3/2018 12:56:19   
Aura Knight
Banned


 The heal of soul leech cannot keep up with the self damage from the blood price skill and I think this is the biggest flaw the class has. However, a stronger heal might not be the right way to correct this problem. The question is, do we make a change to the heal skill anyway or should blood price be changed? I'd say the biggest issue with the last skill is in its need to be stacked. This is clearly a mistake as it's near impossible to get to 4 stacks because we can't keep our health up to get to the fourth. I'm gonna see if my strange idea of using a level 1 weapon, pre-stacking the last skill and then switching to a level appropriate weapon will make a difference. If it does, well guess we have a way to get to 4 stacks without dying.

edit: Well that didn't go according to plan. While self damage was lower, being 500 on one use and 1000 or so on another, I still end up dying due to carelessness. And even though I got to 4 stacks, my damage was still just 10k which is about the same as it would be with just a single use of blood price. Doesn't seem stacking the skill matters.

< Message edited by Aura Knight -- 3/3/2018 12:59:29 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 19
3/3/2018 13:23:42   
Digital X
Beep Beep!


 Think I might treat myself to this Class, have not bought a class for a long time. Those who are using it how are you finding it?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
3/3/2018 13:49:57   
Aura Knight
Banned


 Exalted Harbinger Skills Feedback

Soul Breaker: A good free skill, has respectable damage and a fair cooldown. No need to change this unless really necessary.

Soul Rend: The main source of damage for the class. I think it would be a lot better if whenever our hp is below, say 30%, it is changed to a skill that is guaranteed to hit and crit. It's no fun getting to single or double digit hp and only hitting at most 3k non crit with this. And this is usually with the boost from the last skill active.

Soul Leech: A nice enough skill but cannot keep up with the self damage from the Blood Price skill. Could be better as a damage reduction effect in addition to being a heal. Much like my idea of getting an added effect when we're below a certain point in hp being added to the Soul Rend skill, why not have this one be changed to a damage reduction effect? Doing so would allow for us to stay at low hp and still survive enough to continue to do high damage. Currently, I can only get maybe 3 uses of the Soul Rend skill before needing to use the heal and once I do heal, the damage on Soul Rend becomes less powerful.

Soul Snare: This skill is actually alright. However it's a shame the stun it had before was changed. Then again, a 90% hit chance reduction to whatever you're fighting isn't something I dislike. What the class could use is some kind of haste boost so we can maybe loop this skill. And like my ideas of bonus effects being added when below a certain hp point, maybe this skill could use that as well. When at low hp, we enter a Frenzied state since we're in a panic and would like to end our foe before it ends us.

Blood Price: A good boost, no reason to deny that but because we cannot keep our health up enough, we cannot stack the Exalted effect to 4. At most we can get 2 and maybe sometimes 3. As has been mentioned before, the flaw in this skill is that the self damage becomes too high on the second use. Also, I don't seem to get many crits after using this skill which I find strange. Perhaps there's some problem with it? Also, crit damage with it active is not too amazing. With one use I can crit about 10k and it's basically the same with 2 uses. Maybe this needs to be checked to see if it really is working properly.

Passives

No Pain No Gain: An increase to incoming damage could be fine if our healing could keep up with it. But currently, the class just can't do that. However, if there are changes done which are similar to what I've suggested, such a passive would be fine. And maybe the damage taken would need to be decreased.

Might of the Legion: Seems okay as is but maybe damage output cut be increased to 20% boost instead of the 15% it now is.

Rank 10: It's good as is. An endurance boost is nice for this class. Just wish I knew what this ability was called.

This is about all I can think of after using the class for a bit.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 21
3/3/2018 15:28:15   
Loftyz
Member

I found out the class has a better heal while farming. It's called 'change classes to Acolyte, heal, and change back'.
DF AQW  Post #: 22
3/3/2018 15:31:50   
Digital X
Beep Beep!


 Brilliant, cheers Aura! Much appreciated.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
3/3/2018 15:52:49   
Shadowhunt
Member

Thus far, the feedback has been quite helpful, especially in one way; we didn't think you guys were going to be trying to emphasize stacking Exalted so much. The main appeal of that skill is the damage increase aura plus the passive damage increase on Soul Rend by way of lowering your health. We added on the stacking mechanism not so much for when you're playing solo, but if you happen to be using the class in a group. If that's the case then you'll probably be getting healed a lot, so the stacking crit damage is a way to help offset your overall decreased damage potential from not being able to maintain lower health levels. I really don't recommend trying to stack Exalted if you're playing solo; the only time I ever do it is when I'm starting at full health and fighting a monster that hits low enough that I can do two stacks at the beginning of the fight. I guess you could also prestack, start with the hit chance reduction, get your Soul Rends in, then heal up as well.

All this to say that people seem to be using the class in a way we hadn't really anticipated and a lot of the feedback is showing that.

spoiler:

I did find in testing that this class is, as long as crits cooperate, competitive to much better than some of the meta solo classes for taking down low to mid HP bosses. It has a huge burst DPS potential. Give it a shot against some of those, see how you fare.
AQ AQW  Post #: 24
3/3/2018 19:28:08   
Aura Knight
Banned


 The burst potential with this class is amazing. Getting constant 5-7k crits is nothing to scoff at. But it does have a limit on how much damage it can take and the passive making us take 15% more damage doesn't make things easier. Additionally, the soul rend skill can also miss which is bad. Especially when you need it to crit. I'm having fun with the class and trying to now solo the 4 horsemen in /undervoid. So far, only Conquest was beaten and even that was likely due to luck. No chance against the others at this time but am trying out a bunch of enhancement combos. One should work.

I'm not sure how this will do in a party as I mostly go solo, but currently the class is more than fair. Now, regarding the stacking on skill 5, is it really necessary? Even with the Exalted effect, I am seeing no significant difference in damage even with crits. Again, I need to ask if it really is working as intended. With one use of the skill, the soul rend skill, when I'm at low enough hp does around 10k crit damage. And same with a second use of the blood price skill. This makes me think the skill should just be used once and the stacking thing is to simply be ignored.


< Message edited by Aura Knight -- 3/3/2018 19:29:08 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 25
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