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7/14/2019 17:54:22   
Ryu Draco
Member

Hey, me again with more questions in my eternal quest to make character archtypes that sane players will question the point of(or something of that nature)

1)I noticed a misc in Haven that acts like the sword emblem, but for fist/claw weapons. The only ones I can think of are the fists that can be picked up at the Tower or Yulgars, and the Katar weapons from Haven. Are there any more? Also, would it be better to just use as many fists as possible, or do the Katar weapons win due to the effects they have? I've seen people using the Cold due to the freezing, but nothing on the others.

2)What builds match up with which subrace? I know the obvious answers (Warrior/Werewolf, Mage/Vampire), but what about Beastwarriors, do I go with Werewolf for the FO armor, or Neko that offers synergy with Pets and Guests, but trades that for a FD? For FD Beastmages, Neko seems the obvious choice, but I've seen people saying that Vampire is the 'correct' choice, with the CHA booster and built in Dark guest. Rounding my plea up is a question about FD BeastRangers. Both Sol and Luna Nekos seem to fit, and any burn or bleed from any source is boosted, but would it be better to use Sol to buff Pets and Guests, or Luna to buff my own output?

3) Related question, but much less a cry for help and more a thought experiment I'd like other input on. With the update of most of the available subraces(looking at you, Dracopyre) to not only be endgame capable, but able to cover all elements with just 4 armors, this opens new options for players looking for either RP paths or the Road to Munchkinism. Looking at it from the perspective of the Races as the base, what builds match each? To clarify, I mean this from a more thematic viewpoint. What Weapons would a Werewolf favor, what build would a Vampire use. This is more along the lines of if we translated an NPC Vamp, Wolf, or Kitty to a player, what would we have? None of the subrace shops cover everything, so how would we suplement the gaps? This may lead to me making more characters so I can play around with 'mono subrace armor setups' or whatever the term is, so I'm putting a little more effort into this than I probably need to, but I can't really help myself.

Thanks again for anyone who helps!
AQ  Post #: 1
7/14/2019 19:25:11   
Legendary Ash
Member

The Elemental Fists from Yulgar are melee 10% proc, those from Martial Artist class are variants of Yulgar's that come with a 2.5% class bonus MC, Zinn Seeds are Magic from Warlic and Katars from Haven are 0% proc.

Werepyre has complete support of Beast builds over Werewolf and Vampire, since the Mp upkeep guest seeks between two elements and will cover eight elements with four elemental variants of the subrace unlike Werewolf and Vampire covering only five elements.
While Werepyre's Guest is oriented towards Hybrids/Mages, it offers leniency for Beastwarriors as they have some assistance from the Lv 8 Bloodlust passive that trades 15 Hp for 40 mp which reduces the upkeep of Werepyre guest to 74 mp that Fairy Godmother can provide for by toggling to mp heal every other turn.

Luna Nekos have the advantage of a lower upkeep Celerity from Shadowfeeder/Legendary Shadow Crystal V2 to stack Burn and Bleed statuses to higher values from the extra turn as applied through player attacks instead of Guests like Sol Neko. It benefits from items like New Year's Surprise and Ranger's scope that boost player attacks only, not Guests and pets.
Luna Neko have a Dex toggle instead of a Cha toggle that raises accuracy for Ranged weapons by 7.5 BtH and damage by 1.925%, which is equivalent to 10.748% melee, while Cha gives 9.625% damage and 3.75 BtH, which is equivalent to 14.037% melee.
AQ  Post #: 2
7/14/2019 23:53:02   
Primate Murder
Member

1) Katar of Undeath is reasonably good, otherwise I'd suggest fists for an FO build.

2) As a warrior, you'd want werewolf. Dex toggle gives accuracy to both you and the beasts, and wielding non-100 proc weapons in FD armors would cause you to loose 20% damage. You can, of course, start using 100-procs, but that wouldn't be a warrior anymore.

Vampire is good for FO beastmages. FD would still generally prefer nekos, due to reduced damage intake, passive damage and accuracy boosts for beasts, and a fairly nifty Cataclysm skill.

Sol used to be undisputably superior, but now that 100-procs were buffed from 90% damage to 100%, the difference is mostly thematic. I would still suggest Sol, I think, since pets like Bots and guests like Grimlord/Mogsterio would benefit more from the accuracy boost than 100-procs, and the Cha drive gives more damage for beasts (as shown by LA) than Dex does for 100-procs. That said, if you're planning to run and FD set-up with Therndas and CIT, I would certainly advise Luna.

3) Well, the Neko shop has bows, so that seems like a no-brainer. Also, Haven's grenades and Katars seem to give an extra neko charge, so that's thematically compatible.

Vampires have a certain focus on healing and Bleed mechanics, so they're probably best used with bleed-inflicting weapons as opposed to something like Bloodblades. From a purely rp perspective though, most vampire monsters tend to use their claws, with the exception of the Vampire Warrior, who uses a slender one-handed blade.

Despite not having a Cha toggle, werewolves speak a lot about the pack, so a beastwarrior might be a good thematic choice. Like vampires, most werewolf monsters attack with their claws and tend to regenerate a lot (as reflected by sp/hp subrace heals, minor as they are). Between the Werewolf Warrior and the Lycan Slasher subrace weapon, it seems werewolves favor shorter, curved weapons with higher slashing power.
AQ DF  Post #: 3
7/16/2019 18:24:51   
Ryu Draco
Member

Thanks you two for the as always quick responses.

1)Didn't see the Katar of Undeath, looks like every element can be covered except Light and Wind via Neko claws. Also, looks like the Martial Artist fists only scale to about 70, so for Melee endgame it's Neko or Yulgar.

2) Are the built in pets for Vamp and Wolf worth using for endgame or should I just use them for some compression/cost saving until 150? Also while the Werepyre Pet Coverage (sounds like a gothic radio station) does seem to be able to cover everything, I'm not sure I'd like to tie up my Pet slot for that, might have to think on it a bit.

Thanks, I'm gonna keep picking at this.

Edit: Guests, I meant built in guests. I swear I know what I'm talking about, it just doesn't look like it

< Message edited by Ryu Draco -- 7/17/2019 1:41:10 >
AQ  Post #: 4
7/16/2019 18:47:59   
Legendary Ash
Member

I think you misunderstood, Werewolf/Vampire/Werepyre subrace armors compress Guests not Pet, there are no pets that can be brought into battle via other methods except from Pet item slots.
AQ  Post #: 5
7/16/2019 23:14:17   
Primate Murder
Member

As LA said, the subraces summon guests, not pets - you can still easily use any pet you want.

A for their viability... Except for a few cases, like Sugar Gobbler with Petrify or Doomquake Minions with 2x damage, I'd say yes.

- Werewolf guests inflict DefLoss, making all your attacks more accurate, which can be nice for FO builds. The downside is that they inflict against Dex, which makes them less likely to inflict the effect.

- Vamp guests inflict three different effects, with Bleed and Blind being good for FD, and EleVuln being good for FO. Overall they're a little weaker for being so varied in their effects, but EleVuln is being inflicted against Cha (which the monsters ususally have 0).

- Werepyre guests toggle between sp heal (not very useful for guardians with access to EO) and inflicting DefLoss + EleVuln - the best statuses for an FO build. Their downside is the same as werewolf - they inflict against monster Dex.
AQ DF  Post #: 6
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