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Female Ninja vs Black cat vs Paladin class guest

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2/13/2021 11:34:16   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 -Bth (to mob)=+MRM (to self)

Does anyone have the stats so I can see which provides the best boost:

  • New GGB Call Female ninja
  • Paladin class skill 6: Paladin Reinforcements- Summon Apprentice (boost defense mode)
  • Rogue class skill 5: Call Partner (Black cat)
Post #: 1
2/13/2021 13:42:53   
Legendary Ash
Member

Ninja is 14.82% melee *.6 for omni element and *1.01 for turn delay = 8.98% melee.
AQ  Post #: 2
2/13/2021 14:17:16   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 I remember a while a go you told me that for the black cat:
quote:

value is with Rogue Outfit, out of the class armor is 67% -10 BtH, equates to 11.035% melee per turn.


Wouldn't then the " *.6 for omni element and *1.01 for turn delay" also apply? Thus making the black cat = 6.68% melee.

Also, a question I've never thought to ask, but is a higher melee % better or worse?
Post #: 3
2/13/2021 20:02:45   
Legendary Ash
Member

Cat's formula on its encyclopedia entry already factored in the the *.6 penalty and *1.01, its an old AQ encyclopedia entry practice that they don't disclose the penalties.
To figure out the base melee% it traded for the -BtH apply 7*1.01/(4.25*.6) to convert to melee%.

Cat's 15(.67+.1+.5*ExpectedStat), a Tier 1 ClassLv 10 has an ExpStat of 150 at Lv 30, the result is 63.21% melee /60% of a standard guest, which is *1.053 as a bonus for equipping Rogue/Ninja class.
Apprentice's 21.6 BtH likewise is post-penalty: 21.6*7*1.01/(4.25*.6) = 59.89% melee

The melee% I provide is after the application of the penalties and compensations since that is their true melee% worth.

A higher post-compensation/penalty melee% represents more effectiveness.

< Message edited by Legendary Ash -- 2/13/2021 20:04:05 >
AQ  Post #: 4
2/14/2021 3:43:29   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 Some things that I need to preface for the accurate calculations that I'm inquiring about:
• You said Black cat BtH is 15, but I use out of class armor so BtH in this circumstance will be 10
• You said Paladin Apprentice BtH is 21.6 (it says blocking so isn't it actually MRM? Although ultimately they are the same thing in this context); but even with 250 CHA (achieved through Quadforce of Power (if that info is relevant), it only says 19.5 (and 10.1 if a CHA of 10)?
• Also, like the Paladin Apprentice, are any of these other guests' values based on CHA? Are any less reliant on CHA as the intended character in use only has 5 CHA, what would they be coming in at with that?

So from what everything I've gathered you say:
• Female shinobi= 14.82% (base melee) / 8.98% (true melee)
• Black Cat= 63.21% (base melee) / 11. 035% (true melee)
• Paladin Apprentice= 59.89% (base melee) / 31.13% (true melee)
?
Post #: 5
2/14/2021 4:58:16   
Shiba
Member

Quadforce of Power raises Strength. You need Courage for Charisma. Could you try that with your Paladin Apprentice? If that does not change the 10.8, then there must be a code conflict. The Charisma from Quadforce does not show up, so maybe something went wrong?

This is just theory, though: please make sure you actually use Courage, first...
AQ  Post #: 6
2/14/2021 11:29:27   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 Communication error on my part. I simply mistook the name of the misc, I thought the misc it self was called "Quadforce of power".

I of course used the courage selection, hence the reason why it went from 10.1 to 19.5 as I mentioned. I just didn't understand why Ash said 21.6 when I got 19.5 and didn't know if it were because of an imperfection of using the Quadforce misc.

< Message edited by Mr. Roguish -- 2/14/2021 11:30:05 >
Post #: 7
2/14/2021 13:55:13   
Legendary Ash
Member

The Apprentice is a piece of equipment directly called/summoned by a class like Cat, it may have class/racial trigger bonuses and penalties, its base -BtH of 21.6 is modified by *1.25 for Undead, *1.125 for Demon, *.875 for anything else.
AQ  Post #: 8
2/14/2021 15:17:43   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 But with an untriggered Apprentice: 21.6*0.875= 18.9 not the 19.5 that I got?

I am also confused about the point of a true melee percentage if everything will be factored through the same equation and thus will be promotional equivalent to the base melee?
Post #: 9
2/14/2021 15:37:24   
Legendary Ash
Member

Being a Guardian adds a power level bonus to scaling equipment that results in the out-leveling modifier generating an increase to the values, Lepre-Chan info subs is an example of how it works.
AQ  Post #: 10
2/14/2021 21:30:22   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 I still don't understand because the Leprechan formula is:
Plus 0.2 + 0.2*[Your CHA]/[Expected CHA])

When I plug my 10 CHA in I get +0.208, not 19.5 or 21.6
Post #: 11
2/14/2021 23:02:15   
Legendary Ash
Member

The formula you stated is the damage boost it applies, this is then further affected by an out-leveling modifier, from the link the text below BUFFER = 20 is the out-leveling formula.
AQ  Post #: 12
2/23/2021 2:28:04   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 So just to be clear:
Initially when I asked which was the best, I was initally only given the stats for the female shinobi, that would lead me to believe that she would be the best.

However the further provided stats seem to point that the ranking goes:
1. Apprentice
2. Black cat
3. Female shinobi

????
Post #: 13
2/23/2021 16:13:58   
Legendary Ash
Member

quote:

Does anyone have the stats so I can see which provides the best boost:

This is what was asked in post #1 and it doesn't match the claim 'Initially when I asked which was the best' in post #13.

When one has made more than one post in the AQ Q/A on the topic of Best dodge guest, it is expected that they have acquired that information for safekeeping by having recorded or memorized the response.
In case one fails to do so, one should be able to use search engines to find the older Q/A response.

Conclusions are only made with supporting evidence and are rarely based on implications especially if it concerns the mathematical and scientific approach.
The perceived absence of numbers for the other equipment is simply lack of information and thus one cannot deduce that it would 'lead me to believe that she would be the best.'
AQ  Post #: 14
2/25/2021 0:16:05   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


 Except:
1. I was never given the actual value of -BtH for the female shinobi, nor the chance per CHA
2. I initially asked the stats of the female shinobi with clear previously acquired and "safeguarded" information from prior AQ Q/A inquires as represented in post #3 and #5, asking for a confirmation of the stats "base" and "true" melee%'s in post #5 and got no direct response

The "parry" mechanic compared to the nigh invisible -BtH infliction, and the nigh invisible MRM buff ultimately do the same thing but from my understanding, seem to work in different ways and are effected by nonstandard variables such as class armor, titles, and mob trigger. Which I do not feel like is being taken into consideration as previously requested in third bullet on post #5. As well as originally these "best dodge guest" threads did not mention the "base melee%" value prior which is a new value I am having to attempt to understand. You're not being very unequivocal.

< Message edited by Mr. Roguish -- 2/25/2021 10:49:37 >
Post #: 15
2/25/2021 18:32:10   
Legendary Ash
Member

If one meant to ask for a confirmation of numbers, using a '?' in place for that text poorly communicates the intended message whose meaning I could not decrypt.
As those numbers are taken from my posts that are peer reviewed and referenced more than one time in the past, one shouldn't naturally have reason to doubt them, and the sources can be compared side by side to personally confirm them.

The analytical value drawn from base melee and true melee in post #4, is a determination of efficiency, a measurement of effectiveness after all modifiers are factored in namely compensations and penalties.
Efficiency differs among the three forms of blocking in ascending order, MRM, Parry and Blind.

Currently, the lower effectiveness of equipment have less of an impact in combat as they can be stacked to a high power at costs that are of a minor concern due to a lack of a cap on resource expenditures.

For modern equipment, whereas Black Cat is not one of, effects are modified in a manner of saving throws or scaling to Stat/ExpectedStat.
With 250 Cha via Quadforce the effectiveness of Apprentice and Female Shinobi is as stated earlier, Cat surpasses its value once Stat exceeds the Expected Stat of 150 as presented by its formula.
With 5 Cha, one would use the knowledge of the linked stat scaling to calculate it.
AQ  Post #: 16
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