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Lust Pet versus Ramssy Pet

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2/17/2021 20:13:49   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

 Considering 250INT/DEX/LUK and 250INT/LUK/150DEX/100CHA as the builds :

How would Lust compare(damage wise in LS mode) for spellcasting with this setup:

1) Pyromancer Bloodmage(skill) + Ramssy Guest + Celtic Wheel(50 INT) + Arcane Cutlass of Combustion + Lust Pet + Warlic's Oblivion Sphere (50 INT + 50 LUK)
2) same setup as above but with Ramssy Pet
3)Pyromancer Robes (imbued) + Ramssy Guest +Celtic Wheel(50 INT) + Arcane Cutlass of Combustion + Lust Pet + Warlic's Oblivion Sphere(50 INT + 50 LUK) using Warmaster's Burst
4) same setup as above but with Ramssy Pet

Considering 250STR/DEX/LUK as the build :

1)Blazing Bloodzerker armor + Ramssy Guest + Chieftain's Ironthorn(50 STR) + Melee Zealot (x1.5 LUK damage) + Lust Pet + Samukematsuri Oni Mask(50 STR+50LUK+20CHA+50END)
2) same setup as above but with Ramssy Pet

< Message edited by LUPUL LUNATIC -- 2/17/2021 20:17:31 >
AQ  Post #: 1
2/21/2021 20:07:29   
Legendary Ash
Member

The Wizard Robes class bonus grants a 10% mana cost discount, worth 2.5% melee.
Should Imbue be used as intended against a ratio of 70% Fire/130% Weakness, the 50% spell boost has an effectiveness of 57.5% for the mana cost increase, this is essentially the omni-element penalty after factoring the class bonus, otherwise should Fire be the weakness its 1/.9375 = *1.0666 effectiveness.

Output melee%

250 Dex/Int/Luk:
1. .99625*1.84977(1+.28125+.5+.5(.3+.225*350/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250)(115*300/200)) = 1217.72%
2. .99625*1.84977(1+.28125+.5+.5(.5+.375*350/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(11.5*300/200)) = 1030.37%
3. .99625*2.2203(1+.28125+.5+.5(.3+.225*350/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250)*(115*300/200)) = 1461.64%
4. .99625*2.2203(1+.28125+.5+.5(.5+.375*350/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(11.5*300/200)) = 1236.77%

150 Dex, 250 Int/Luk, 100 Cha:
1. .92125*1.84977(1+.28125+.5+.5(.3+.225*350/250+.075*100/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250+.1*100/250)(115*300/200)) = 1126.05%
2. .92125*1.84977(1+.28125+.5+.5(.5+.375*350/250+.125*100/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(11.5*300/200)) = 952.80%
3. .92125*2.2203(1+.28125+.5+.5(.3+.225*350/250+.075*100/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250+.1*100/250)2(115*300/200)) = 1351.61%
4. .92125*2.2203(1+.28125+.5+.5(.5+.375*350/250+.125*100/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(11.5*300/200)) = 1143.66%

250 Str/Dex/Luk:
1. .99625*1.25(1+.15+.2+.5(.3+.225*350/250+.075*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250+.1*20/250)1.5(115*300/200)) = 638.09%
2. .99625*1.25(1+.15+.2+.5(.3+.375*350/250+.125*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+1.5(11.5*300/200)) = 554.67%

If Elecomp to Sp cost is accounted for
.99625*1.84977(1+.15+.2+.5(.3+.225*350/250+.075*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250+.1*20/250)1.5(115*300/200)) = 944.26%
.99625*1.84977(1+.15+.2+.5(.3+.375*350/250+.125*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+1.5(11.5*300/200)) = 820.82%

< Message edited by Legendary Ash -- 2/22/2021 15:58:38 >
AQ  Post #: 2
2/22/2021 7:53:35   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

 Carefully looking at numbers for 10 minutes .... ok figured first part then second ... hypothetically :

Ok so the idea with the calculation is that we split the Formula in 2 parts, first part is calculated for its spell damage part and then the second part is where its calculated the stat damage part which is neccessary since Lust is more or less a stat damage boosting Pet.

So for:

quote:

1. .99625*1.84977(1+.28125+.5(.3+.225*350/250))(3(50+38.5*350/200)+(1+.2+.1*300/250)*2(11.5*300/200)) = 1175.28%

I am not seeing the +50% additive spell boost from its skill here :

quote:


1. .99625*1.84977(1+.28125+.5(.3+.225*350/250))


Shouldnt be:
quote:

1. .99625*1.84977(1+.28125+.5+.5(.3+.225*350/250))


I am curious and wonder if the Lust calculation is correct, so the idea is that we get 11.5% melee for 200 LUK but that is for the 10% LS chance right?
Lust is adding with 300 LUK and 0 CHA + 32.94% chance (you forgot about the outleveling formula for her) which makes our LS chance go to +42.94% chance.
This should mean we deal *42.94%/10% more damage instead of *(1+.2+.1*300/250) since it adds to your LS chance.
For example assume we deal 100 Damage with 50% base chance that means we deal on average 100*0.5 damage => 50 Damage
Now if we add lets say +50% chance to the base chance we get 100 Damage with 100% base chance that means 100*1 => 100 Damage
This means we deal *100% base chance/50% base chance => *2 damage not *1.5 damage

Which means :
quote:

*(1+.2+.1*300/250)


Be changed to :
quote:

*42.94%/10%


And the result is ~1465% Melee

Its strange how +32% LS chance is worth only *1.42 and is less than *1.5 LUK damage mathematically(which is supposed to be 5% Melee worth and this Pet should be 32% Melee). This shows that LUK damage is severely overpowered ! A grosier amount of overpowered to be quite honest. Either that or LS chance needs to be buffed in some way to compete with LS damage. And its also only for Fire attacks unlike Valencia. // No longer true

Also

quote:

250 Str/Dex/Luk:
1. .99625*1.25(1+.5(.2+.25+.3+.225*350/250+.075*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(1+.2+.1*300/250+.1*20/250)1.5(11.5*300/200)) = 514.59%
2. .99625*1.25(1+.5(.2+.25+.3+.375*350/250+.125*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+1.5(11.5*300/200)) = 533.09%


The boosts are for Melee level in Bloodzerker so not .5* boosts and Zealot is 15% not 25% and with the *42.94%/10% from Lust instead we get =>
848% Melee with Lust Pet
and 774% Melee with Ramssy Pet.

What i did not yet understood is this part :

250 Dex/Int/Luk:
1. .99625*1.84977(1+.28125+.5(.3+.225*350/250))(3(50+38.5*350/200)+(1+.2+.1*300/250)*2(11.5*300/200))

I get that its about 200 INT equating to 38.5% Melee but the number 3 as multiplier?

< Message edited by LUPUL LUNATIC -- 2/22/2021 13:28:47 >
AQ  Post #: 3
2/22/2021 16:04:31   
Legendary Ash
Member

quote:

I get that its about 200 INT equating to 38.5% Melee but the number 3 as multiplier?

1. .99625*1.84977(1+.28125+.5(.3+.225*350/250))(3(50+38.5*350/200)+(1+.2+.1*300/250)*2(11.5*300/200)) = 1175.28%

Thought that Bloodmage's Hpcost boost was hardcoded into the spell BRS% as 3x (base+Int stat damage converted to melee%) and 2x Lucky strike damage converted to melee% instead of standard spell's 200% melee multiplied by a spell boost of +50%.
Calculations from the previous post have been corrected 1+.5 boost and 2x (base+Int) and standard Lucky strike damage.
quote:

I am curious and wonder if the Lust calculation is correct, so the idea is that we get 11.5% melee for 200 LUK but that is for the 10% LS chance right?
Lust is adding with 300 LUK and 0 CHA + 32.94% chance (you forgot about the outleveling formula for her) which makes our LS chance go to +42.94% chance.

I didn't apply the outleveling formula to Ramssy and Lust, I factor it in should it produce penalties like Imanok Edoc and I don't when they produce bonuses that don't scale linearly at different level ranges to ensure that the comparison is more applicable to lower level characters that can achieve the same stat values.
Its why I prefer doing comparisons in melee% that is consistent for all levels instead of damage value that is unique to the equipment of varying levels.

quote:

This should mean we deal *42.94%/10% more damage instead of *(1+.2+.1*300/250) since it adds to your LS chance.

To adjust LS damage when LS chance is modified have LS damage be the whole value of 115*300/200 instead of 11.5*300/200, add up the LS chance and convert to decimals, the calculations on the previous post have been corrected from LS damage to LS chance.

quote:

Its strange how +32% LS chance is worth only *1.42 and is less than *1.5 LUK damage mathematically(which is supposed to be 5% Melee worth and this Pet should be 32% Melee). This shows that LUK damage is severely overpowered !

200 Luk converted to damage is 115% melee before the LS chance, an MC of LS chance +5% is 115*.05 and LS damage is 11.5*1.5-11.5, both equate to 5.75% melee, which is more than the intended MC of 5%.
The Devs should be aware of how much Expected Stats are worth in melee% since this knowledge is used in scaling stat boosts to costs prior to reaching stat caps in three stats, but chose to hand wave mathematical rounding or for other reasons.

< Message edited by Legendary Ash -- 2/22/2021 16:25:34 >
AQ  Post #: 4
2/22/2021 18:55:29   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 
quote:

I didn't apply the outleveling formula to Ramssy and Lust, I factor it in should it produce penalties like Imanok Edoc and I don't when they produce bonuses that don't scale linearly at different level ranges to ensure that the comparison is more applicable to lower level characters that can achieve the same stat values.
Its why I prefer doing comparisons in melee% that is consistent for all levels instead of damage value that is unique to the equipment of varying levels.


Yes i prefer the comparisons in Melee % too.

quote:

To adjust LS damage when LS chance is modified have LS damage be the whole value of 115*300/200 instead of 11.5*300/200, add up the LS chance and convert to decimals, the calculations on the previous post have been corrected from LS damage to LS chance.


I guess thats why i had to multiply your Lust numbers with 10 because the number was 11.5% instead of 115% for LUK chance.

quote:

250 Str/Dex/Luk:
1. .99625*1.25(1+.15+.2+.5(.3+.225*350/250+.075*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250+.1*20/250)1.5(115*300/200)) = 638.09%
2. .99625*1.25(1+.15+.2+.5(.3+.375*350/250+.125*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+1.5(11.5*300/200)) = 554.67%


The Ramssy boosts should be at Melee level for Fire Bloodzerker and not Spell level and there is also the 0-proc bonus for Zealot: =>

quote:

250 Str/Dex/Luk:
1. .99625*1.25*1.08*(1+.15+.2+(.3+.225*350/250+.075*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+(.1+.2+.1*300/250+.1*20/250)1.5(115*300/200)) = 915.86%
2. .99625*1.25*1.08*(1+.15+.2+(.3+.375*350/250+.125*20/250))(2(50+38.5*350/200)+1.5(11.5*300/200)) = 765.89%


quote:

200 Luk converted to damage is 115% melee before the LS chance, an MC of LS chance +5% is 115*.05 and LS damage is 11.5*1.5-11.5, both equate to 5.75% melee, which is more than the intended MC of 5%.
The Devs should be aware of how much Expected Stats are worth in melee% since this knowledge is used in scaling stat boosts to costs prior to reaching stat caps in three stats, but chose to hand wave mathematical rounding or for other reasons.


Ok so it explains why Lust is better than Ramssy Pet and it is quite a big difference. Thanks for doing the math Legendary Ash !

< Message edited by LUPUL LUNATIC -- 2/22/2021 19:09:28 >
AQ  Post #: 5
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