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=ED= Cyber Hunter Balance Thread

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8/6/2018 19:12:43   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread

This is where you can discuss everything balance related to the Cyber Hunter class.
Got a skill that doesn't fit? Perhaps a combo that proves to be too strong and abusable. Discuss it here with everyone!

A few guidelines before we start:
  • All AE Forum rules are still in effect.
  • No comparisons between other classes. You can use certain facts to build your case on, but please do not turn this into a 'CH vs X' thread.
  • Everyone's opinions are just that. Opinions. If you don't agree, that's fine. But, there is no need for rule breaking behaviour.
  • Constructive Criticism is meant to improve something, not rant, whine and complain to be heard. If you are going to criticise, do so with the intent to give help, not tear down.



    < Message edited by Battle Elf -- 8/6/2018 19:13:11 >
    • AQW Epic  Post #: 1
    8/6/2018 19:26:48   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Cyber Hunter is lacking in energy control. Since the passive was removed to where it's not a defensive class, cyber has been struggling and the only thing that kept it alive was the static and massacre in early omega. After CH was killed after that, the only things that brought cyber back was the EMP grenade and the static charge. Well that was nerfed and since damage has been increased, cyber has a problem with energy manipulation and damage output.

    Cyber needs a way to minimize opponents damage so that they are able to beat classes that can regenerate HP.
    Rebuff EMP grenade would be a good recommendation. Also improving the plasma grenade would be nice (I hate the stunning purpose as I think it should be a damage thing, but people will probably shoot down removing the stun). I'd like to remove the stun and increase the damage to make cyber a better damaging class so it can compete ith other classes. Classes taht can't regenerate HP with moves need to have stronger moves to compensate. (Massacre doesn't count since it's not good for focus/str anymore, just support builds)




    EDIT: And plasma armor nerf, really? No point in that.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/6/2018 21:22:34 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 2
    8/7/2018 13:55:13   
    NDB
    Member

    		I think improving the damage on Plasma Grenade by a bit but decreasing the stun chance, maybe down to 20 or 15%, as a trade-off could be a really great idea.

    The Tech scaling on EMP does seriously need to be upped a bit again to make it usable.

    And yes, the nerf to Plasma Armor does seem a bit uncalled for.
    Epic  Post #: 3
    8/8/2018 11:39:14   
    RaXZerGamingZ
    Member

    		EMP is too weak, drains too low for the cost

    Plasma Armor didn't need a nerf

    Plasma Grenade has too low damage

    Massacre needs an additional effect like ignore % of defenses and an overal damage buff by about 10-20% (the lifesteal buff didnt help it much)

    Malfunction seems to be noticably weaker than on the Tech Mages
    Post #: 4
    8/12/2018 19:08:47   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Malf is really broken right now as a support Cyber Hunter, just watch out for this next update, would recommend if chance if TM gets nerfed back to normalcy


    This still holds true after the balance patch.

    Mass is kinda sick too...

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/14/2018 21:18:13 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 5
    9/23/2018 8:56:39   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Support massacre is broken.

    Malf with this build needs a nerf, so does massacre. Massacre HP regen is kinda a bad idea with how much damage massacre does with this build, like honestly. You go 1v1 and this is almost all you see.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 6
    4/28/2019 11:41:26   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		EMP grenade sucks too much for this energy manipulating class to be good. I don’t know what y’alls vision for this class is, but it’s not working.
    It seems you guys want tactical to be #1 and no other class should have a chance, besides tech mage and the ridiculous malfunction.you basically shoot up the debuff skills to make or break a class.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 4/28/2019 11:42:33 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 7
    4/28/2019 19:00:56   
    Foulman
    Member

    		Funnily enough, f5 CH poison does very well against the cookie cutter TLM and TM while also being very weak against Merc/BH/Str TLM with Blood Hawks + Azrael. Plasma Armour doesn't complement robot/tech builds like Mineral/Hybrid Armour, making CH very vulnerable to Hawk/Smoke/Azrael/Physical damage combos. CH also doesn't have any skills that scale with Dex, basically forcing people to use 120 physical armour.

    Shadow Arts is still useless, while EMP grenade is by far the inferior skill compared to Atom Smash. It really isn't fair when you limit CH to using a Malf/Mass/Poison build that requires specific cores, or a f5 build that relies solely on heal looping to win.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 8
    3/6/2020 15:39:44   
    rayniedays56
    Member

    		So...does anyone know why they keep nerfing the CH while it's the weakest class in the game? We're forced to use memory leak to drain EP, which can be healed, and now we have a 4 turn warm up to use memory leak again.

    Can someone answer this? Are the Devs even USING CH anymore or is everyone just focused on using the Sup/Strength mass build so other builds don't matter?

    And what was the reason for EMP removal for the most useless skill I've ever seen in ED? lmao

    _____________________________
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
    3/6/2020 18:51:30   
    Steroided
    Member
     

    		 Blood Mages are the weakest class at Level 40. Statwise and Overall of course, this is not a discussion. The weakest non Level 40 class(Level 30 below) is possibly Tact Merc, idk. The reason it is getting nerfed is because it was previously and currently is a contender for being the best class in the entire game. Most CH being the exact same build of Focus 5, Infernal Android, Malf, Poison. This build works too well in 1v1 PvP combined with free energy for heals every single 3 turns, 2 passive buffs, and 2 powerful debuffs.

    This is a good example of a troll who wants the more broken classes to stay in the lead, Moderators. Cyber Hunters were literally the number 1 class in the entire game and unbeatable for months due to Static Grenade. That was just a month or 2 ago. I believe there are videos on YouTube showing this. Cyber Hunters Memory Leak deserves a nerf due to Energy Spam debuffs by Cyber Hunters. It is incredibly hard to get over it even if you heal through it as they will use the 2nd debuff available and regain all the Energy used after that for another Memory Leak.

    I don't notice the Staff in 1v1 anymore, so I don't care what build that they use. They might feel like using Cyber Hunters 1 day, or using any other class they want, honestly. I personally don't think their obligated to test any class, at all. But I still notice the majority of 1v1ers I battle are Cyber Hunters, as it is the best Focus 5 class in the entire game. Support/Strength stat abusers started to increase dramatically when Cyber Hunters had Static Grenade and were the #1 class in the game for months. As you had to kill them quickly otherwise you were trapped in their heal loop and lost the game automatically. Not to mention most of them had 3 Core heals available and were mostly Varium users. The other players switched to Cyber Hunter immediately, and I had a friend who even explained to me how broken the class was and how he won all his games doing the same maneuvers over and over again. The only issue he had was with other Cyber Hunters, as it made the game much longer, but usually the same result. (This was before EMP got removed.)

    Fireball(Blood Mage) is currently the most useless ability in the entire game, statwise and overall. EMP combined with 2 more powerful forms of Energy Manipulation caused them to literally break the game. So the next time you lose to a Strength/Support build, just know that your class was the reason why so many of them were created. And the Cyber Hunter heal loop is the reason why so many of them still exist now.

    Your best bet to get help at this point is to say something about Diminishing Returns, and not trying to troll. LMAO.
    Post #: 10
    3/7/2020 9:25:47   
    Foulman
    Member

    		@Roidrage
    1) BM is not the weakest class in the game

    2) Stop invading other threads just because you've proven yourself incapable of debating in good faith

    3) CH has never had Static Grenade

    @rayniedays56

    CH is quite strong, but it's also limited to 1 general playstyle. EMP should not have been removed, or perhaps it could have been replaced with a more useful skill than Neurotoxin. Even Fireball is more useful than Neurotoxin - a Support debuff should not belong on a class that already has the skillset to beat Support builds.

    The reason given for the EMP removal was because CH had extremely powerful energy control - someome with Max EMP and mid level Memory Leak could completely remove the opponent's energy before they had a chance to do anything except heal. I personally think that Memory Leak should have had either the Poison effect or the Energy drain effect nerfed, while EMP should have been buffed to compensate.

    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
    3/8/2020 13:17:27   
    Steroided
    Member
     

    		 Blood Mages are the weakest class in terms of Stats, as I said earlier, and Overall, as I said earlier. They might not be the weakest in other aspects, such as Strength, however are currently the weakest class in the entire game.

    EMP or Static Charge. You only get to pick 1. You don't get multiple op Energy Manipulation Skills for no reason. Cyber Hunters are still one of best classes in the entire game. They dont need anything better than Neurotoxin as they already have everything on their class already. It can be used against all Support builds in 1v1 and can be used against Support builds in Tag before they get a turn. Can also use it in 1v1 with low energy and low life points to Tank a Raged Aux or take 30 damage from it.

    Fireball is the miss useless ability in the entire game. No debuff in the entire game is worse. Begging for your broken class to stay unbeatable by all other classes due to a nerfing isn't how the EpicDuel Balance Forums work.

    EMP cannot exist with Static Charge. End of. There is no discussion about it.
    Post #: 12
    3/8/2020 15:56:42   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		1) Blood Mages are not the weakest in terms of stats, every class has the same stats (besides energy if that’s what you mean, but Mercs have less energy

    2) Blood Mages are not the weakest class in the game, your personal experience doesn’t provide the truth

    3) CH had EMP and static charge and the only problem ended up coming from memory leak, so that argument is invalid.

    4) Fireball is not the most useless ability in the game, the CH multi is arguably tied if not more useless

    5) There is definitely a discussion about this, although CH is definitely an extremely solid class, there were still moments when CH was trash with EMP and static charge, like actually the worst class in the game.



    Personally, I’m sad about the CH changes, being all the ‘new’ class changes that happened because they basically kill the old feel of the class. CH is a very good class that revolves around memory leak only, it’s not even close to the worst class, but it’s a shame. I wish they woulda tweaked memory leak and other cores instead if just removing EMP and replacing it with neurotoxin, which I don’t think is a very good skill at all, but I’ve never been a CH or a support merc so I don’t really know.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 3/8/2020 16:13:22 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 13
    3/8/2020 17:33:54   
    Steroided
    Member
     

    		 Blood Mages are the weakest class in terms of Defense, Resistance Stats (all buffs included) at Level 40 or higher. Also, Overall Damage to opponent(+all potential debuffs). This is pure fact.

    Blood Mages are the weakest class in the game because of this. Just because you feel like they aren't or you lose to a BM Strength build doesnt mean anything.

    Cybers Hunters aren't getting EMP while they have Static Charge. No evidence Memory Leak was the only one needed to be removed.

    Fireball is the most useless ability in the entire game. Since you don't actually understand Fireball, I will explain it. Fireball has the worst scaling and lowest Damage attack in the entire game. If you say Fireball is not the worst Skill after actually looking at the Stats on it, I will be forced to report your post. Fireball is worse than Cyber Hunter Multi. Please do not make me warn you about providing a counter claim for something that you haven't researched again.

    Cybers Hunters aren't getting EMP while they have Static Charge. As proven by the Developers, that was the issue with them being unbeatable. The only times Cyber Hunter was trash was when they werent Tanking and being the number 1 class for months. And the differential builds some of the Cyber Hunters chose to use were builds that nearly all classes could use. Even though some better than others.
    Post #: 14
    6/6/2020 5:36:02   
    kittycat
    Member

    		Since Cyber Hunter got Precision Strike in lieu of Cheap Shot, it’s a significant buff because 5 focus sword-bearing CHs have an additional skill in their arsenal.

    Precision Strike’s damage boost synergizes well with Technology, which is compatible with 5 Focus. However the energy drain itself is a bit lackluster, as 15% subtraction is good to prevent a player from using a particular skill. Would it be feasible to exchange some of the scaling from the physical damage boost to increasing the energy drain % to 20% or 25%?
    AQ MQ  Post #: 15
    6/7/2020 1:45:03   
    Foulman
    Member

    		A f5 CH with no ranks typically deals 368 damage with a raged Precision Strike. This means that the skill only drains a maximum of 55 energy in a typical match. It's a great idea, but I'd rather see a lower, static damage boost in exchange for a scaled energy drain.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    3/14/2021 12:41:30   
    Albus dumbledore
    Member

    		CH is still weak and need some fixes such as:

    Multi right now is improved by technology which makes CH class tech biased, Multi+Static+Neural Scythe, that gives CH class few options:

    a)Focus but due to important skills which needs tech alongside to the plasma armour passive that will make CH is weak in the defense term.

    b)High tech build which obviously will left the defense open and any physical attack will hit hard.

    c)Strength+support or Strength alone: if a player used these builds that will require a lot of energy to use the skills that improves with strength such as: proton cannon and pulse punch
    "I know they do not improve with strength as % or amount but you need strength to get better efficiency", so more str and sup means less tech and less energy gain.
    d) Support builds, they are good but the energy needed for the skills like memory leak is too high also the plasma grande critical chance is way too much.
    Conclusion:
    1-bring the multi back to dexterity which gives us more options and to make plasma armour more useful with different builds.
    2-change the Neural Scythe improve with Strength
    3-bring back the old plasma grande which improves with tech
    4-bring back malfunction
    5-consider bringing massacre back
    6-buff memory leak, at 100 support base and max level skill with no extra stats it does 116 HP/EP removing .... and that cost 290 energy.... so buff the amount of HP/NP taken by at least 10-20 per level and reduce the energy needed at least by the same.

    < Message edited by Albus dumbledore -- 3/14/2021 13:49:36 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 17
    3/14/2021 21:40:14   
    CactusChan
    Member

    		In response to the previous post:

    1. Supported. A good dex CH build would synergize perfectly with Plasma Armor, but some things might have to be tweaked depending on how strong it is with Sea King's Spirit (despite its nerf).

    2. I think Neural Scythe should actually improve with dexterity as well, since the scaling is very weak anyway and it would give dex builds more versatility.

    3. I actually don't agree with this. The new Plasma Grenade is actually decent with the buff to its scaling, especially for support builds, and even focus builds can use it pretty effectively.

    4. I don't think this is necessary anymore with the buff we've seen to CH. If it was shown that a tech debuff was absolutely necessary, I would suggest making Neurotoxin into a tech and support debuff (though obviously with weaker values than Neurotoxin currently has for supp), and nix the heal debuff. In that way, you could have Neurotoxin + Plasma Grenade providing the same resistance debuff as Malf would, with the detriment of needing two turns but with the advantage of a simultaneous supp debuff.

    5. Considering Photon Cannon is pretty close to Massacre anyway, I don't think this is necessary. I think Photon Cannon's lifesteal could be a bit higher, but that's about it.

    6. Memory Leak is an extremely polarized skill at the moment. Due to its poor level scaling and quick stat scaling, it's very strong and cheap at low levels, but hardly any more effective at high levels, relatively speaking, while costing way more energy. I think the scaling needs to be nerfed to +1 HP/energy per 3 support instead of 2, and the base values should increase by 10 per level instead of 5 for a max of 100 base HP/energy drained.
    Epic  Post #: 18
    4/30/2021 12:02:42   
    emenem12
    Member
     

    		 This is a continuation of the mercenary balance thread. Reactive armor needs a cousin, (insert name here) armor. Where it steals or deals energy damage in the same fashion that reactive armor does. Since energy does not get as many points as health does when creating any build, it should only be 3/4 of the percentage that reactive armor has.

    Level 1: 8% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 2: 10% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 3: 11% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 4: 13% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 5: 15% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 6: 16% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 7: 18% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 8: 19% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 9: 21% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal
    Level 10: 22% Reflected Energy Damage/ Energy Steal

    This would replace cyber's second passive skill, gene augment; which should be changed to a buyable varium core at all vendbots.

    Post #: 19
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