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RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 Begins

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12/5/2021 12:28:27   
roobee
Member
 

 I would like it if the in-game text mentioned which Frostval items return.
For most events everything returns, although I've heard something about exceptions for commemorative spoons? But for Frostval it seems only Decorate the Tree shop items return? This can cause regret for players that don't buy the other items because they don't realize the other items will leave forever.
One hesitation of staff could be about promising Decorate the Tree items return, since it restricts their future actions from removing items from the shop. Maybe instead of a promise, the text could be like "historically, decorate the tree items have returned. So they will probably return next year"
Post #: 51
12/5/2021 17:04:19   
PD
Member
 

 A few fun statistics about the gold contest: (As of this post)

1. Top 2 gold donators accounts for 27% of all the gold donated.
2. Top 10 accounts for 47%
3. Top 12 accounts for 49.8%.
4. Top 15 accounts for 55.4%.
5. Top 25 accounts for 69.5%
6. Top 50 accounts for 81.7%.
7. Top 200 accounts for 98.7%.
8. Everyone not in the top 200 accounts for 1.3%.

Since the numbers are exact we actually get to know these numbers. For the token contest this is trickier to know since exact numbers are hidden. Also if/when the staff actually does make it more convenient to donate large amounts for the gold contest, I'll donate the rest of what I have currently in a bigger batch (around 120-130b), and then everything continually after in smaller batches until the end of the contest. I'm still setting my sights on an ultimate goal of 400b. It should be possible anyways - I suspect I'm not the only one who's holding on on donating until it's more convenient to - and when it does everyone ought to expect another donation wave to happen.



As for the old rares discussion - I've been of the position that they *should* get fixed and return, although I imagine that power concerns are usually secondary to just being able to replay the past. A lot of the old giftboxes anyways before 2012 aren't even fully scaled so many of them aren't even going to be useful unless they are updated. The ones after it though, that may be a little trickier to deal with.

I will also say that older unobtainable items need to get looked at as well because until they aren't, there's motivation to keep using them which makes it harder for staff to create/update new/existing items that are interesting without breaking more norms (which said older items do). Something along the lines of a need to also update items like Soul Gauntlet, Pixel Ether, etc when everything else is updated when that happens. Yes, it's a difficult thing to do as players try to do everything to bend the rules and find advantages where they can. But doing as much as one can in this area does much to ensure the game has sane design principles.

< Message edited by PD -- 12/5/2021 17:30:02 >
Post #: 52
12/5/2021 17:37:03   
Lv 1000
Member
quote:

CH4OT1C!

One other thing: If they were to return, they would be updated. You wouldn't be getting the old item, it would be balanced according to today's standards. For example, you aren't just going to get pixel ether's current ability (it'd end up more like Discount mogloween candy bag) or Moglord tortress (the skill would become modern).


This is an important point. Asking for items to return means that they will inevitably be adjusted to fit current standards. Also, because they'd have to make clones (even if they had different art/elements) they'd probably just copy-pasta the changes to the old items as well. Big reminder that the rarity and/or method of acquisition of an item does not mean that it will never be fixed, if it is bugged, or updated, if it is "off standard" (even if this technically speaking means a direct nerf).

< Message edited by Lv 1000 -- 12/5/2021 17:40:10 >
Post #: 53
12/5/2021 17:47:36   
Sapphire
Member

So what's the big deal about updating something to current standards? What item or items from past frostvals is considered off standards/overpowered that would cause a player to be concerned for it's return?

Seems to me, balance standards should sort of take a higher position, and rarity shouldn't create a situation for ignoring it.
Post #: 54
12/5/2021 18:19:21   
PD
Member
 

 A few of the shortlist. Not comprehensive but some of the most problematic:

1. Icefall: Unbalanced Resurrection (100% HP/MP Heal), Flame absorb. Would open up a lot of stupid strategies.
2. Pixel Ether: Unbalanced MP regeneration standards. Should get the same hook as Mogloween Candy Bag and Essence Orb which Lv 1000 above me has worked tirelessly on working on what *should* be the appropriate amount of regeneration.
3. Moglord Tortress: Unbalanced skill that has very high elemeComp being on old standard. Doesn't suffer lean penalties.
4. Cozy Fire Orb: Too optimized for fire damage.
5. Ebil Toys (2007): Unbalanced standard for removing MRM at a miniscule HP cost.
6. 2018 Frostval Past Weapons: Broken interaction with EleVuln Stacking
7. Windter Crown: Unbalanced SP regeneration.
8. Blockman Armor (2011): Uses old Standard for skill. Doesn't suffer lean penalties.
9. Full Metal Santa (2012): Uses old Standard for skill. Doesn't suffer lean penalties.
10. Bar of Soap: Doesn't use traditional save formula.
11. Major Award: Uses old standard for Paralyze.
12. Bee Bee Gun: Permanent Blind with low save resistance.

Again, not a full list, I'm sure I missed a thing or two. People like using these kinds of items to get around the "limitations" of what the current standard is.
Post #: 55
12/5/2021 18:45:24   
CH4OT1C!
Member

quote:

So what's the big deal about updating something to current standards? What item or items from past frostvals is considered off standards/overpowered that would cause a player to be concerned for it's return?

Seems to me, balance standards should sort of take a higher position, and rarity shouldn't create a situation for ignoring it.


Although non-exhaustive, PD's list is pretty good regarding the items that aren't updated. It's also probably worth mentioning that some of the items don't have max level versions, which (I presume) would be added when updated.

As for why it's important: Balance is important (as has been mentioned pretty much incessantly). Rarity is absolutely not an excuse for ignoring it, as proven with the update to Angelic robes and the Dreamweaver armour to account for the new version of spellcaster lean. The staff have limited time to address retroactive balance issues. Rares are sometimes overlooked until they return for that reason. Re-releasing rares would warrant a look to keep them to modern standards. There isn't really a debate to be had about this. If they get re-released, they'll also get updated. Items wouldn't necessarily need new art (unless we're talking about my stance on different art and description for functionally the same item), but they would absolutely need to be checked to ensure they follow the standard.

@SapphireCatalyst: To clarify my stance - I have weighed in on previous arguments around the reintroduction of rares on multiple occasions over the years. I have also witnessed the highly charged opinions people hold on the subject, and I don't wish to get involved for that reason.
AQ  Post #: 56
12/6/2021 7:59:50   
  Digital X

Beep Beep! ArchKnight AQ / ED


 I'm going to nip this in the bud before it escalates.

I understand the concerns about rare items, everybody has a different opinion about them returning and that's fine. What isn't fine however is some of the tone and arguments in this thread.

I know things can get heated rather quick when you are passionate about something but please take the extra 5 minutes to reword your posts in a way that isn't going to cause a snowball effect. Your posts are read by forum goers both old and new and it's wise to set a good example for them.

Balance is a huge factor here also, and that's something that has changed a lot over the years and is something that would definitely have to be considered.


I don't want this message to come across as me asking you stop posting by any means, just please take a moment to think about how the message may come across to other people.

Thank you.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 57
12/6/2021 13:29:57   
PD
Member
 

 Hopefully we get that guidance / communication sometime soon. Nivp has already created a workflow for easing donations but I’m not comfortable using it yet just because donations are extreme inconvenient (and people have lost patience) as of now. Hopefully there’s clarification around that OR an easier flow is implemented on an official basis.

< Message edited by PD -- 12/6/2021 13:45:04 >
Post #: 58
12/6/2021 17:51:21   
Lv 1000
Member
quote:

PD:
...
4. Cozy Fire Orb: Too optimized for fire damage.
...
7. Windter Crown: Unbalanced SP regeneration.


A bit offtopic but I do want to clarify that the above are fine.

4. Cozy Fire Orb only needs a slight change to be a clone of Greater Water Orb, but this doesn't really matter (it would be like 4-5% decrease in additive damage for spells only).
7. Windter Crown has a hard cap on its mechanic and not as trivial to charge up compared to other items.

The reset of them would very much need balance adjustments as to not completely destroy the progress that has been made of the last few years.
Post #: 59
12/7/2021 12:38:10   
Sapphire
Member

Noticed several times over the past few days of the gold gift notification, but no gold added. Been like 6 times, and its always 100 mil
Post #: 60
12/7/2021 12:41:26   
PD
Member
 

 Gold is pre-added to your balance, regardless of whether you capped for the day or not. Those notifications are for receipts that are older. Donations have slowed as of recent day because everyone either already dumped their gold or they are waiting for the staff to do/say something.

I myself am holding onto well over 130b and would have been donating but doing this is going to take an inordinate amount of my time so I am waiting. Hopefully that happens sooner than later. I think the community is waiting for a stimulus. An official word/implementation on easier gold donations would be that impetus.

< Message edited by PD -- 12/7/2021 13:34:26 >
Post #: 61
12/9/2021 9:04:38   
battlesiege15
Member

Hello, can people donate to @Blackflames? His funds are running low donating Gold to others lol

This is probably a weird request, but is there anyway to add commas into Gold and prices? This goes for character pages, shops, and especially donation contests because you eventually lose track of how many 0s are in things like 10000000000000000000000000000.

And if that's not feasible, having an option of re-writing the text as "1 B" gold/"100 M"/"10 K"
Any chance we can also store Gold in the Shared Vault or has that been deemed to be too unfair? (I totally understand if that's the case and there is the Gold Storage Chest in the Tower but Adventurers can't access it which I guess may be intended. But would this also give an unfair advantage to Guardians in things such as Gold drives?)

< Message edited by battlesiege15 -- 12/9/2021 9:07:57 >
AQ AQW  Post #: 62
12/9/2021 12:33:43   
Sapphire
Member

Looks like the half priced tokens are gone, but the GGB half price sign is still there. (If you havnt logged out, back in.) I gambled when I saw the 50% off and it took 2k.
Post #: 63
12/9/2021 13:05:11   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead
quote:

Looks like the half priced tokens are gone, but the GGB half price sign is still there. (If you havnt logged out, back in.) I gambled when I saw the 50% off and it took 2k.

There was a caching issue so if you send me your Character ID# I'll refund 1K Z-Tokens to your character. Or anyone else that was charged full price for GGBs while the quest still had them listed as 50% off.
AQ  Post #: 64
12/9/2021 13:15:05   
PD
Member
 

 Updates in DN’s to the gifting contest.

I’ll check these changes out later but this is a good step in the right direction though there’s still no word on rank hoggers. However a lot of damage has been done but hopefully going forward we won’t have things like this happen again.

If these changes work for what we need, I’ll be giving the community a stimulus package. It ought to inject life into the contest again.



While these changes are great, as I said before I just wish this could have all been done sooner. Hopefully people will be encouraged to donate but no doubt first impressions mean a lot. Hopefully people will understand it’s changed but a lot of people no doubt will have felt discouraged from their initial impressions. DN’s aren’t the most visible place to be notified for changes so a different forum especially when no accompanying announcement is made. There should be a different avenue for these things because these kinds of things need visibility.

< Message edited by PD -- 12/9/2021 13:37:59 >
Post #: 65
12/9/2021 13:26:03   
Dr Disrespect
Helpful!


 Solid quality of life changes!
Post #: 66
12/9/2021 13:56:25   
PD
Member
 

 Okay, so I had a chance to play with the new improvements, and the cooldown is set to 20 seconds. Which is a lot better than the previous 1 minute + flow interruption. However since this isn't entirely automated for larger amounts it will still prove to be somewhat of a bother (though a lot less than it used to be). There may be those who say it's just my fault for farming too much but I'd like to see a higher level of automation, IE if I have a billion, then it ought to automatically do this every 20 seconds as an auto-pilot which would still take me over 3 minutes to donate. Or have an option to donate the same amount of again, with the timer built into it. But still, a big step in the right direction. Just needs a few more automations and I'll have called this a (mostly) successful event.

Since there's a lottery, I'm not sure I'll be dumping *everything* in 1 going, but probably spread out over this week and the next to increase my chances of winning.

EDIT: I waited for the 20 second timer and I still got an error message saying I was too fast. Looks like behind the scenes it's still a minute.

< Message edited by PD -- 12/9/2021 14:44:25 >
Post #: 67
12/9/2021 21:46:05   
Sir Cloud
Member

^sounds perfectly fine to me as someone who donates literally thousands of dollars to this game every year for rare items to remain rare and untouched. Thanks Staff! :)

_____________________________

EPH6:12
Wolf Uriel Gabe
AQ  Post #: 68
12/10/2021 0:19:19   
  Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

 

 The effects are the same for the crowns and the caps. There is a fix pending, but as it requires engine work, it isn't happening immediately.
Post #: 69
12/10/2021 3:49:11   
Novyx
Member

Hopefully both the Server Caps and the Frostval Crowns get fixed to work properly with other LS rate sources, would make Blue Server Cap/Precise Frostval Crown work much better with things like Lust/Shieldcake.
Post #: 70
12/10/2021 11:27:21   
battlesiege15
Member

quote:

Shops for Boreal Cavalier and Shadow Phoenix prizes will be added to Ballyhoo.
The login window to receive a Z-Token gift has been extended to 24 hours. (Save at least 1 winning battle, or give a gold/Z-Token gift to be counted as logged in.)
The login window to receive a gold gift has been extended to 8 hours.
Gifting amounts have been updated to be easier to read.
Added randomly-selected backgrounds.
Added option to skip dialogue.
Added option to Gift Again after your gift has been saved.
The gifting cooldown time has been significantly lowered.
10 Frostval Crown Misc items are being given away DAILY for everyone that gifts either gold or Z-Tokens (5 daily for gold, 5 daily for Z-Token). You can double your chances of winning if you give away both gold and Z-Tokens in a single day! These prizes have been retroactively given to winners from the contests beginning on December 1st.
2 versions of the Frostval Crown are available - Ferocious Frostval Crown for +LSDmg and -LSRate, and Precise Frostval Crown for +LSRate and -LSDmg. Players will receive the Ferocious crown by default and it can be swapped for the Precise version via the Item Upgrader. This daily giveaway will end with the contests on January 31st!
- So if someone gets a Token gift but they don't login for 24 hours (or Gold gift for 8 hours), does the tokens or gold get sent to the Shadow Realm? Or does it get forwarded to another player to collect within the time frame and forwarded yet again?
- Thank you for the update to the gifting values! Makes it so much easier to read. Hope we can see the usage of commas in other aspects of the game
- Oooh, the randomly selected backgrounds is cute. Would be funny to add a small percentage chance of finding Tibbles somewhere wild like the Void or Heck haha
- Skip dialogue is nice
- Gift again would be hlepful
- Yay chance at free items. Much appreciated
Any chance the "Donate More" button can be moved like 1 inch down? Sometimes I'm unable to hit the "0 gold" button to exit Kibbles.

Thank you for listening to the player base! Y'all are the best.
AQ AQW  Post #: 71
12/10/2021 12:20:23   
Dr Disrespect
Helpful!
quote:

So if someone gets a Token gift but they don't login for 24 hours (or Gold gift for 8 hours), does the tokens or gold get sent to the Shadow Realm? Or does it get forwarded to another player to collect within the time frame and forwarded yet again?

Iirc the player gets the reward(s) whenever he/she does log in to the game again, irrespective of the time elapsed.
Post #: 72
12/10/2021 21:43:48   
Macho Man
Member

When someone makes a donation, the games look back x amount of hours and selects a winner who had previously played within that time. The winner can login whenever they want and claim their donation after winning a battle.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 73
12/10/2021 21:44:24   
PD
Member
 

 Got around to dumping everything in my stored vault that wasn't a storage chest, and gained around 15b gold. Now I won't have to do that same tedium later.

A word of advice to some people after I played around donating with a larger amount of gold. There are probably those of you out there who are planning to dump everything in the last minute - I don't advise you do this. Even with the QoL improvements, dumping a lot of gold is still an extremely involved procedure and it's not as easy as say with Tokens. At least you ought to spare yourselves the anxiety that will come with it as offloading a great deal of gold takes an equally long amount of time. With the way things currently are, it still took me well over 3 hours (5b/hr) to get rid of everything. The in-game cooldown is slated as 20 seconds, but this still has constraints with the server side, which I still have run heads against with only a minute at least being enough to have a consistent pattern.

Still hoping the staff makes some last-mile improvements for the contests, but if they don't you ought to know it's still pretty tedious in advance. You aren't likely going to have fun offloading your billions on the last day, and you might not even be able to get everything off with the in-built time constraints. I personally am going to donate about 10b every day, and then going forward just donate whatever I have in vaults and my main immediately. Not only for raffle chances, but to avoid that last-week anxiety.

< Message edited by PD -- 12/10/2021 21:48:46 >
Post #: 74
12/11/2021 14:41:22   
Primate Murder
Member

We have crossed the trillion mark!
AQ DF  Post #: 75
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