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Friday, January 12th Design Notes: Just a Spoonful & Paladin Rework!

 
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1/13/2024 6:12:06   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

quote:


Friday, January 12, 2024
Just a Spoonful & Paladin Rework!
Hey there, heroes!

This week, the requests board in Book 3 Falconreach's Serene Inn has a new posting!


While culinary exploration is usually Ruby's field of expertise, it seems like someone is trying to get a toe into Falconreach's food scene!

Head over to the Serene Inn and check the requests board for this week's release: Just a Spoonful!



Also this week, Paladin has been reworked!

With this rework, we wanted to keep Paladin's tankiness and reliability while also differentiating it from other bulky classes. We also wanted to give Paladin some bigger hits, so it can not only take big hits, but retaliate in kind.

Paladin's Avoidance uptime has been reduced in exchange for high Defenses uptime and other defensive tools, as well as more consistent and reliable healing.

Paladin's major mechanics are Inner Light, Radiance, Smites, and Unlocks.
  • Inner Light
    • You gain 1 Inner Light every turn, to a maximum of 20.
    • Using a skill locked to the Light element will generate another stack of Inner Light.
    • Every stack of Inner Light heals you for .2% HP each turn.
    • Every stack of Inner Light also decreases your Health resistance by 1.
  • Radiance
    • Using the Radiant Armaments skill, you'll build up Radiance to a maximum of 3 stacks.
    • Radiance increases your Bonus, % Base Damage, and Defenses, and severely reduces your Crit.
    • Radiance stacks also increase the effects of most of your skills.
    • Radiance only lasts a few turns, however, decreasing as your build them up, so plan your Radiance usage carefully!
  • Smites
    • You can spend 5 Inner Light to empower your next attack with a smite, increasing its damage by 100% Base damage, while reducing its Crit by 400.
  • Unlocks
    • You can spend 1 Inner Light to unlock any attack that is locked to the Light element. Skills that were previously Light locked will still generate an additional Inner Light.
    • This essentially stops your Inner Light growth when used.
Paladin's skills are as follows:
  • Attack
    • 1 hit for 100% base damage.
    • Recovers 15 MP.
    • Heal 1% HP.
  • Holy Aegis (Replaces Barrier of Sanctuary)
    • 20 MP, 8 CD
    • +160 Avoidance to self, +20 Avoidance for each stack of Radiance.
  • Radiant Armaments (Replaces Crusading Strike)
    • 10 MP, 1 CD - 5 CD if status if Radiance is removed or reached 3 stacks of Radiance.
    • When Radiance effects are removed or fall off, Radiance drops to 0.
    • Each Radiance effect overwrites the previous.
    • When used with 0 Radiance, applies Radiant Oath.
      • +60 Bonus, +60% Base Damage, +60 Defenses, -400 Crit for 7 turns.
      • Increases Radiance to 1.
    • When used with 1 Radiance, consumes Radiant Oath and applies Radiant Spirit.
      • +90 Bonus, +90% Base Damage, +90 Defenses, -400 Crit for 5 turns.
      • Increases Radiance to 2.
    • When used with 2 Radiance, consumes Radiant Spirit and applies Radiant Purpose.
      • +120 Bonus, +120% Base Damage, +120 Defenses, -400 Crit for 3 turns.
      • Increases Radiance to 3.
  • Holy Wasabi (Replaces Angelic Blessing)
    • 25 MP, 7 CD
    • 1 hit for 100% base damage.
    • Applies a 25% base damage DoT for 1 turn.
    • Heal self for 6% max HP + 3% max HP for each stack of Radiance.
    • Purge self of DoT effects.
  • Swords of Eternity
    • 15 MP, 1 CD
    • Attack all foes for 150% base damage.
  • Crushing Light (Replaces Holy Storm)
    • 25 MP, 12 CD
    • 7 hits for 140% Light locked base damage.
    • Automatically applies -30 Immobility resistance to foe, + -15 Immobility resistance for each stack of Radiance for 1 turn.
    • Attempts to stun for 3 turns.
  • Dawn's Light (Renamed from Light of Dawn)
    • 25 MP, 8 CD
    • 1 hit for 120% Light locked base damage.
    • Applies -40 Bonus to foe, + -20 Bonus for each stack of Radiance for 3 turns.
    • Applies -50 Crit to foe for 3 turns.
  • Prismatic Strike
    • 20 MP, 4 CD
    • 3 hits for 120% Light locked base damage.
    • Applies -20 Boost to foe, + -10 Boost for each stack of Radiance for 6 turns.
    • Applies -10 All res to foe, + -5 All res for each stack of Radiance for 6 turns.
    • Applies -50 Crit to foe for 6 turns.
  • Greater Heal
    • 0 MP, 14 CD
    • Purges all non-Paladin effects from self.
    • Heal 15% HP, + 7.5% HP for each stack of Radiance.
    • Recover 10% MP, + 5% MP for each stack of Radiance.
  • Solemn Vow (Replaces Holy Wrath)
    • 30MP, 14 CD
    • 1 hit for 200% base damage.
    • When used over 50% HP:
    • Increases your STR/DEX/INT by level/4 (Max 20, Min 5) + level/8 (Max 10, Min 2) for each stack of Radiance for 15 turns.
    • Increases your END by level/2 (Max 40, min 10) + level/4 (Max 20, Min 5) for each stack of Radiance for 15 turns.
    • In other words, at level 90, you get +20 STR/DEX/INT + 10 for each stack of Radiance, as well as +40 END + 20 for each stack of Radiance.
    • Recovers and adjusts your health to match the new END stat.
    • When used between 25% and 50% HP:
      • Increases your END by your level (Max 80, Min 20) + level/2 (Max 40, min 10) for each stack of Radiance for 15 turns.
      • Recovers and adjusts your health to match the new END stat.
    • When used under 25% HP:
      • Heals 10% Max HP, + 5% for each stack of Radiance.
      • Addiitionally, recovers and adjust your health as though you gained END equal to your level (Max 80, Min 20) + level/2 (Max 40, min 10) for each stack of Radiance.
    • When you fall under 25% HP with a Solemn Vow effect up, the Solemn Vow effect is removed and you heal 10% Max HP, + 5% for each stack of Radiance (when applied).
  • Aura of Light
    • 20 MP, 4 CD
    • 1 hit for 120% Light locked base damage.
    • Applies +10 Boost and % Damage Reduction to self, + 5 Boost and % Damage Reduction for each stack of Radiance for 6 turns.
  • Seal of Courage (Replaces Phoenix Song)
    • 30 MP, 7 CD
    • 3 hits for 240% Light locked base damage.
    • Applies -30 Boost to foe, + -15 Boost for each stack of Radiance for 4 turns.
    • Applies -50 Crit to foe for 3 turns.
    • If the Seal is applied, applies -30 Boost, -50 Crit to self for 3 turns.
  • Seal of Celerity (Replaces Cor Lucem)
    • 30MP, 9 CD
    • 2 hits for 240% Light locked base damage, with innate 100 Bonus.
    • Applies -100 Avoidance to foe, + -50 Avoidance for each stack of Radiance for 5 turns.
    • Applies -50 Crit to foe for 5 turns.
    • If the seal is applied, applies -100 Avoidance, -50 Crit to self for 5 turns.
  • Seal of Salvation
    • 30 MP, 29 CD, Requires and consumes 10 Inner Light.
    • Purges non-Paladin effects.
    • Sets your HP to full.
    • Applies +40 Health resist to foe, +20 Health resist for each stack of Radiance for 7 turns.
    • Applies -50 Crit to foe for 7 turns.
    • Applies +40 Health resist, -50 Crit to self for 7 turns.
  • Channeling Spirit
    • 30 MP, 14 CD
    • 10 hits for 240% Light locked base damage, with innate -400 Crit.
    • Heal yourself for .5% HP for every stack of Inner Light you have.
Addtionally, Paladin gains +10% base damage when fighting Undead!

Paladin also starts with 5 Defenses and 15 Dark resistance, up from 5.

Playing Paladin to its full potential will revolve around managing your Radiance and Inner Light, taking hits and dealing hits. That said, there are still definitely different ways to play Paladin! We hope you enjoy it!

As usual, things may be subject to change and adjustment from feedback.



Paladin customization has also been updated!

Retro Paladin is now a customization option.

Paladin customizations also now have their own default weapon art and skill effects.

Various art issues have been fixed as well.



Do those new Paladin default weapons look cool to you? Well, now you can have them for your own!


Paladin customization cosmetic weapons are now available from the cosmetics shop!



Finally, a couple of bug fixes and adjustments.
  • The Black Market Moglin's name change function now only allows the same symbols as when creating a new character.
  • Character names can now include the - symbol.
  • Removed the interaction between guests, CHA and exp/gold earned.


And that's all for this week!



< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 1/13/2024 7:25:36 >
DF AQW  Post #: 1
1/13/2024 12:36:17   
DragonKeeper
Member

I really like the new Paladin upgrade. Now it is time to learn these new skills.
DF  Post #: 2
1/14/2024 3:47:06   
Flabagast
Member

Paladin is much more versatile now. Before it was a bit of a one-trick pony; it could tank well and become nigh invincible if it's up against Darkness damage (admittedly quite cheesy), now it has great burst damage potential with if set up correctly.

It's clearly built around the Radiance mechanic (I love that it has Suki's visual effects too), wherein you can let it burn slowly for reliable damage and defenses, or build it quickly to become a spiky brick wall for a few turns before it burns out, leaving you vulnerable sooner. I like how the Seals have trade offs that can be life-saving or detrimental depending on how well you use them. Inner Light feels fleshed out, becoming a resource you can spend strategically rather than a passive HoT. Smite is fun to use and unlocking its skills means Light Elementals won't be so awkward to fight anymore.

All in all, fantastic rework.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 3
1/14/2024 6:31:07   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

Took neo Pally to as much spin as possible, and I can say its identity is in a good place. Quite durable and offers room for modifying rotation. In context, the Endgame wiki anti-boss rotation data is a decent foundation assuming your bossfight will actually allow it, but the nature of the Radiance system means you can have room for compressing it should the need arise over the need to pump up Inner Light for Smites. Speaking of Smite, it is a nice incentive for the late stages of combat, but not really warping enough for the class to overly depend on it despite that one detracting remark on the DF Reddit that its DPT is poor (Ninja's DPT has a very noticeable peak and trough both before and after its changes in line with Kunai. Pirate can lose speed against snipers. Pally offers stability. Plus, it's a stonewall. And no, the argument that it should be viable to all Inn fights is a flimsy excuse). Of course, I do agree that Seal of Celerity took the place of its old Seal of Salvation as the last resort skill. Sure, it offers room for it to plant its stonewalling debuffs, but probably only until the player gets their dragon up to the modern definition of a "starved" (200-point) dragon (In this case, pure AST or hybrid PROT/AST) wherein they'll actually get the same result, but without the caveat of compromised shielding.

And finally, a means to detox from Thorn Replica or Lucky Hammer. As it's an STR class, the Ebil axe reward for Mogloween allows for squeezing some extra bit of damage, BoD90 if you want to emphasize the tank nature of the class. As the last three skills of Pally are primarily last resort buttons of varying degrees, I could see the use of on-demand specials for it besides the latter mentioned (all but the Citrine, Larimar, and Onyx series of Geode Weapons can see some use for it).
DF AQW  Post #: 4
1/15/2024 20:43:14   
Lee
Member
 

Having given Paladin a whirl and seeing other's use it. It feels considerably better and nicer to use than how it used to. The class still maintains it's old tanky feel - especially with Inner Light scaling every turn - while having a toolset that allows it to both deal some respectable damage and get around some of it's old issues, one of being having no +Health res debuff whatsoever.

Rotation wise, I've had some decent success by going (rotation is from the Endgame Wiki)
Radiant Armaments > Prismatic Strike > Aura of Light > 3x Fillers (I use Wasabi/Stun/Eternity here) > Radiant Armaments > Solemn Vow > Prismatic Strike > Aura of Light > Radiant Armaments > Channeling Spirit > Swords of Eternity *or* Seal of Course

It works fine enough for me, I've had to make some adjustments for different fights which is good in my eyes.

I'm a tad worried I'm going to get shot for this opinion, but I'm concerned that Paladin is *too* bulky or fat now. Your various Heals and defensive skills really hammer this hard. I've seen Paladin walk through both Chaos Slayers* (without any Potions or Food) and Swan Song Extreme (1 Health Potion and 1 Mana Potion) with little trouble. These two fights being some of the most difficult ones that even Special Offer classes struggle with for one reason or another.

*You could argue that Ranger doing Chaos Slayers without potions as well detracts from this point, but I'd argue the use of Double Turns is the main cause there.

To add further onto that, Paladin has also managed several other potion-less runs with things like Blades and Bones as well as Retribution and Reclamation. One can argue that it's simply a "difference in skill" between users but that doesn't seem the case with Paladin's absolute bulkiness.

One final example of Paladin's bulk is Never Apart. At the time of writing this, someone in the community had just finished a run between Paladin Vs Never Apart with Evil res stack. No potions were used, and Achilles was done first. If need be, I'm happy to expand on my feelings and concerns more in regards to these examples.

With that in mind, there's only two ways to go from here in my eyes. Either Paladin gets brought down (the easiest and fastest route) a small bit, or future fights will have to be brought up considerably to counter Paladin - which in turn will hurt everyone else. Similar to how Epochs dominated the Inn for a long time. Or how Light/Ice Scythe really damaged things - which we're still repairing the damage from (e.g Tomix losing 20 All res in Phase 2, making him considerably less painful)

---

In my opinion, Paladin could lose some of it's defensive bulk while still maintaining it's overall theme and not change too heavily.

TLDR:
Paladin feels really nice and it's a great revamp to the old tank-y class we all know. I fear it's just too bulky which either means fights have to be considerably harder to counteract it or the class itself will need to be brought down.
Post #: 5
1/15/2024 21:46:36   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

As far as I am concerned as a player leaning towards more defensive plays, that danger of escalation you're concerned about began roughly some time since Pirate's modernization, and what did it receive to put it down to size? Some degree of rigidity by calibrating one of CDs and -Boost effects, and a rise in enemies capable of sniping. It is easy to forget that BDP requires twice the effort to sidestep a strike unlike MPM, which thankfully the Radiance effects have. And facetanking hard hits is already a fundamentals at this point in advanced combat. If there is room for curbing paladin here, I'd say that lowering the numbers on its -Crit effects could be the better option. Retains the turtling feel, but less assurance that a glancing crit with a nasty status ailment will not blow through. While it'll stick out from the themes of its fellow skills, perhaps altering the seal self-debuff on Celerity be replaced with a -All/+Health instead of -MPM could also be looked into.
DF AQW  Post #: 6
1/15/2024 23:03:19   
Lee
Member
 

quote:

As far as I am concerned as a player leaning towards more defensive plays, that danger of escalation you're concerned about began roughly some time since Pirate's modernization, and what did it receive to put it down to size? Some degree of rigidity by calibrating one of CDs and -Boost effects, and a rise in enemies capable of sniping. It is easy to forget that BDP requires twice the effort to sidestep a strike unlike MPM, which thankfully the Radiance effects have.

Pirate was fairly defensive due to things like Plank being loopable (from memory) but nothing to the extend of Paladin. Plank was and is considerably damaging when paired with Cannon (I can speak for it since I used it myself Vs Eulin to cover his Cannon nuke at the end of his rotation, hitting him with -70% Boost). Paladin has 5 Heals alone before Inner Light or Radiance. Paladin's BPD from Radiance is also further bolstered in effectiveness due to the 4 sources -Crit that you can inflict. Each being -50 each. That's also not accounting for your -Bonus (which is smaller but exists).

Even if you ignore Paladin's BPD from Radiance, sources of -Crit of -50 each and your -Bonus as well as your plethora of Heals. You also have a (scaling based off your Radiance) Damage Reduction and -Boost.

Pirate's only source of -Crit is Locker whereas your -Bonus is primarily from Crackers. While Pirate can be seen as "defensive", now with Paladin existing, I'd argue it's more balanced between Offensive and Defensive - Ninja is somewhat similar to this.

In regards to Paladin being tweaked, I feel like reducing Vow, Aura (which is loopable) may be the way to go. Paladin's theme besides it's tankiness is it's Heals. Seal in my opinion could possibly have -BPD on btoh the target as well as yourself, since Radiance makes BPD shields a burden to hit through with -400 Crit but that can also hurt the player. I'm on the fence as to whether or not that would be a benefit or would result in Seal being not worth using.
Post #: 7
1/16/2024 5:49:19   
quickgold123
Member
 

First things first, I am enjoying the new version of paladin a lot. I like the flexibility that radiance gives, allowing me to choose between sustained damage over a longer period of time or going for a quicker burst by building up radiance fast. The class actually deals reasonable damage now for it's tankiness too, which is a very appreciated change from the paladin of old.

As for the potless stuff, part of me feels like the potless vs 2 pots isn't too much of an issue? I'm pretty rusty on DF right now, but from playing around in some of the newer challenges I never really used pots because most of the time the heals from paladin were comparable to (if not bigger than) heals from pots, as well as providing additional utility. On most other classes this would be a big deal, but on a class as focused on healing as paladin it feels like each attempt is either beatable potless or I have to restart (i.e. less of a gradient from potless to pots, and more a switch).

I am surprised it completed Never Apart though since both Achilles and Pat can deal absurd amounts of damage even through evil res stack (and also very surprised at the completion of Swan Song Extreme, which is quite handily the hardest fight in the game IMO), so I wouldn't mind some fine-tuning here and there if the general consensus is that it's too strong (I trust Verly and the rest of the community to hash together some good changes where necessary).

< Message edited by quickgold123 -- 1/16/2024 5:54:22 >
Post #: 8
1/16/2024 6:34:41   
Lee
Member
 

That's a fair point in regards to the potless issue, I'll give you that. Not sure at the moment if I agree or disagree but I'll give it some thought.

As for Never Apart, that was one of the few fights remaining that Paladin was struggling with. Swan Song Extreme and it's Normal version were surprisingly done very fast - probably due to once you defeat Suki, you're set Vs Darkon. In Never Apart, removing Achilles before he inevitably wipes you out with his 4,000% nuke was the main issue to my understanding. Evil res stack was used to my understanding and it took ~30 turns or so but once Achilles was defeated, Paladin is able to manfight Patroclus. Which goes as well as you can imagine when you literally can't buff yourself but I guess Paladin's Heals helped out in that regard.
Post #: 9
1/16/2024 7:02:07   
Laeon val Observis
Member
 

^So the Never Apart argument is mostly a concept for more diehard roleplayers than pragmatic endgame fighters. Nothing unusual. We've had those already with any fight wherein Class X should not really be used, and have been posted in some form in the Net.

@Quick, what is your character's level and HP Alchemy level, because the one heal that can be a worthy match in the Pally's arsenal with a max level HP pot is Greater heal amped up by Radiance, and in its current state is just as reliable as Pirate's Cursed Treasure skill if not slightly so due to being 1 turn less of a CD when it comes to getting a means of recovery. Downside is only that it is most powerful when you should be equally focusing on bruting down your opponent, something you'll sacrifice with Greater Heal being a recovery skill with no damage capability. The fact though that Paladin can be so sturdy with the most basic kits (by basic, no extra shots like Pirate or extra actions like Ninja) with a setup almost as simple as Pirate's is the cause for concern here even though another weakness to the class is its low hitcount average which can put it at odds against foes that punish such (it's few for now, but might rise in line with Paladin's -and by some extension, Techno- newfound strength). I'll have my reservations on the potless part due to potential ego-striking remarks that can erupt, but we've already had fights that compel to varying degrees to use a pot or risk demise (Keelhaul is pretty humble on that, Twang not so much, Ledgermayne is a mixed bag).

After doing some checks on Paladin's current kit, perhaps the following can be considered to keep it from being Archpaladin-grade sturdy:
  • Remove the HP heal on Attack - with Paladin's stonewall nature, even its humble Attack is already a lethal implement with its kit. Depriving it of the aforementioned power shouldn't be too frightening a prospect while still retaining a nuance of MP sustain.
  • The -Crit of Prismatic and Dawn - on the Seal skills, probably the figures are not out of place, but on the casual moveset does feel too potent (and they are both NDA skills at that. No offense to the f2p community, just looking at it from a balancing perspective). Perhaps omitting them or toning them down to, say, -30 would still feel strong but not to the point that escalation on Crit stat will ensue too soon.
  • The enemy Boost debuff on Courage - this is where we crossed Righteous Seal amounts of debuff. In fact, even an unempowered Prismatic afterwards ensures that the enemy will not really be hurting you soon as Courage's timing is best when Radiance is about to fade, you just have to suck up whatever debuff you'll be inflicted by then. Choices here can include toning down its Radiance scaling and lengthening its CD so that it won't be as accessible during instances where the better choice is to crank up the Radiance ASAP.
Have yet to get alternatives to make Celerity better. While facetanking should be within a stonewall's job description, doing it wrong can screw it up. One thing that crossed my mind is giving it the healing handicap that Salvation currently does, but that would result is changing how the latter will handicap the player (e.g. stunting Inner Light growth for some time).

< Message edited by Laeon val Observis -- 1/16/2024 7:17:34 >
DF AQW  Post #: 10
1/16/2024 13:04:51   
DragonKeeper
Member

I wonder where Paladin will rank on the tier list of armors once the final adjustments are made? DoomKnight v2 being at the apex, of course.
DF  Post #: 11
1/16/2024 20:27:26   
quickgold123
Member
 

@Laeon My pots are maxed out and I'm level 90. After a bit of math, yeah it's mainly greater heal and seal for amount healed alone vs pots, although paladin's so tanky and healy pots would tend to overheal me if I do use them. Either way, I don't really mind if paladin gets a couple of nerfs if it's decided that it's defensive aspects are too strong. I trust Verly much more on balance issues than myself.

And yeah looking back on Swan Song Extreme and NA, I do see how paladin can muscle through those fights, mostly by doing enough damage to avoid Achilles' big nuke or Suki's second "set hp to 1" effect (since old paladin didn't have the damage).

< Message edited by quickgold123 -- 1/16/2024 20:29:20 >
Post #: 12
1/19/2024 1:57:09   
Korriban Gaming
Banned


Personally I feel Paladin was done really well, there's nothing much I would really change

If there was 1 thing I could nitpick though is that I wished the Shield lasted 2 turns rather than 1. I understand the intention behind 1 turn since it fits with whatever the devs are going after for this revamp but having a Shield to hide behind while using a heal skill from Paladin would really be the cherrry on top for me (Dragon Scales not included)
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 13
1/19/2024 3:11:08   
DragonKeeper
Member

I like the one turn shield as it fits in well with the paladin rotation; this has been a week of glorious paladin gameplay. Paladin is my new favorite class, at least for this past week.
DF  Post #: 14
1/19/2024 14:24:47   
Cryomancer
Member

quote:

If there was 1 thing I could nitpick though is that I wished the Shield lasted 2 turns rather than 1. I understand the intention behind 1 turn since it fits with whatever the devs are going after for this revamp but having a Shield to hide behind while using a heal skill from Paladin would really be the cherrry on top for me (Dragon Scales not included)

I personally don't think this is a good idea.

Paladin, as it is right now, is already arguably the most powerful defensive class we have ever gotten - it has massive healing (including a full heal), multiple purges, an extremely powerful -Boost debuff, and Radiance provides it with BPD which can act as a secondary shield of sorts given that it also has access to a -Crit debuff. The only defensive weakness that Paladin has to account is that its MPM shield is fairly weak - which in turn gives Paladin a weakness that keeps the class from effortlessly trivializing the entire Inn and makes its playstyle feel more unique by forcing it to rely on its other defensive skills. As such, giving Paladin a shield that lasts for two turns would not only detract from the class' identity but also give it a significant defensive buff by virtue of allowing the player to swap to -Health gear to heal more with potions or Greater Heal when the class is already arguably too bulky right now.

< Message edited by Cryomancer -- 1/19/2024 14:28:09 >
Post #: 15
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