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RE: Donation Contest Consolation Prize

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8/31/2024 11:00:40   
GwenMay
Member

I believe posters in this thread on both sides have very good points. On the one hand, Aegon and Aang donated an incredible amount of tokens worth thousands of dollars in real money. They donated more than many of the top 5 last year; Aegon in particular donated more than *everyone* last year except myself. Indeed, *I* would have been sniped out of the top 5 the final day if I had not been paying attention the last few hours. They should receive some compensation.

On the other, I agree with Rainy and Cloud that maintaining the consistency of rules and expectations is a valid concern. As Cloud points out, if we make an exception for top 5, then why shouldn't #51 get the armor when they donated almost the same amount as #50? If we make an exception for this year, should past years also receive an exception? Moreover, the knowledge that only top 5 will receive a Golden Dev ticket certainly spurred many of the donations in the last few hours - if we give #6 and #7 a ticket too, did the top 5 "waste" every token they donated above 2.3 million? I admit that I did not expect to donate 7 million tokens this year (although I was happy to do so, and very grateful for the extra community rewards the other top donors and I secured).

Ultimately, I agree wthat Aegon and Zuko should receive discretionary Golden Dev tickets this year for technical reasons. Golden Dev tickets are fungible prizes that staff have discretion to create and that staff have awarded in other contexts. For example, I know Cloud received a Golden Dev ticket years ago for some event (he made an ice clone of Peta Dragon Buster). Other Golden Dev tickets have been awarded as a lottery from purchasing GGBs. Staff can chose to give out prizes to players in their discretion for impressive contributions - the Fungibushi House we received for donating over 50 million tokens an example of such a prize that wasn't listed in the community donation rules. If they like, staff can award Golden Dev tickets to whomever (although this should be done sparingly to avoid favoritism and limit impact on development time).

I also don't think a discretionary award of Golden Dev tickets to Aegon and Aang would invalidate the Top 5's efforts this year. Top 5 donated to *guarantee* a Golden Dev ticket. We have received that guarantee. Aegon and Aang aren't guaranteed a Golden Dev ticket, and if they receive one it will only be at the discretion of staff and with such conditions as staff may impose (e.g., must be made publicly available).

By contrast, the Warwolf and other summer donation sets are marketed as being limited quantity. Unlike Golden Dev tickets, which are always unique and which staff have awarded many times before and will likely award again in the future, the contest rules stated that only 50 players in the whole game would receive the Warwolf Armor, only 100 the pet, only 200 the shield, etc. The value of the summer donation sets are in their limited quantity as much as their rarity. Accordingly, it would be more unfair to grant #51 the Warwolf Armor then it would be to award #6 or #7 a discretionary Golden Dev ticket. Staff promised that only 50 players would ever own Warwolf Armor; staff did not promise that only 5 players would ever receive a Golden Dev ticket, just that the top 5 this year would for sure receive one. In future years, staff would be well within their rights not to exercise this discretion again.

As a corollary, I do not think top 5 should receive both a weapon and shield or any other form of compensation in exchange for #6 and #7 also receiving a Golden Dev ticket (should staff grant them one). We received our guaranteed prize, and providing discretionary Golden Dev tickets to other deserving players does not undermine our prize. Also, the burden on staff in making 12 Golden Dev tickets is far more than making an extra 2.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
8/31/2024 11:09:11   
Branl
Member

quote:

As a corollary, I do not think top 5 should receive both a weapon and shield or any other form of compensation in exchange for #6 and #7 also receiving a Golden Dev ticket (should staff grant them one). We received our guaranteed prize, and providing discretionary Golden Dev tickets to other deserving players does not undermine our prize. Also, the burden on staff in making 12 Golden Dev tickets is far more than making an extra 2.


I definitely understand this contention (And wouldn't mind if they couldn't), however:
Without clear rules regarding what specifically, warrants a hypothetical compensation ticket, I fear you only delay the 12 ticket situation, if the primary concern is staff workload.
Example: Why wouldn't people take this contest as precedent for Golden Tickets being impromptu benchmark rewards?

If that's the case, you could definitely see pressure for staff to make more than 12 Golden Ticket items, if people can estimate how much to donate to be "compensated".
AQ DF  Post #: 27
8/31/2024 11:22:48   
GwenMay
Member

@Branl

I definitely appreciate your concern. I think that's why staff should make clear that this is a one time discretionary event with no guarantee that it will apply in future contests. If 12 people donated around 2m next year and no more, staff could easily just say that's too much work and only award top 5 their tickets. Staff could also base discretionary award of Golden Dev tickets to future donors on the average top 5 donation in the prior year - that would make 5 million the cutoff for a discretionary Golden Dev ticket next year.

But I do not think 12 people will go for top 5 next year. Donating millions of tokens is an expensive and risky endeavor. Most players are not willing to spend that much and accept that risk more than once, especially given the diminishing returns inherent in multiple custom items. For example, I am the only member of last year's top 5 to also be in this year's top 5, and I already know other (and probably most) members of the top 7 this year do not expect to go for top 5 in future years. I may not go for top 5 next year (although I will probably always go for top 25 or its equivalent).

My point is, it's unlikely that 12 (or many more than 5) donate 2.3+ million next year. Should that occur, it will be a very promising sign for the health of the game, especially since having multiple people seriously compete for 5 spots will spur on further donations. You (Branl) donated 5 million tokens on the last day, so we both know how desperate players become in the last few hours of this contest to secure their spot. If many players donate insane amounts if future years, and staff give them discretionary Golden Dev tickets, I would suggest simply requiring their that their items be made publicly available in the Z-token or GGB shops and replacing a GGB release with it so as to not unduly impact the release schedule.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
8/31/2024 12:00:50   
KhalJJ
Member
 

 +1 to Gwen's post, I think she has summarised the whole thing pretty eloquently
Post #: 29
8/31/2024 12:30:04   
Rainy Day
Member

Very good points made.

Just one more point to add. Make the rules from Dec contest onwards.

By compensating for select higher few, invalidates the other players with close donos who spend their money fairly and didn't ask for compensation.

By making an exception now, AE has invalidated many others before who spend real money and came close.

Going forward, set the rules. Don't make exceptions.
Post #: 30
8/31/2024 14:20:10   
Sir Cloud
Member

@RobynJoanne: Contest RULES again just in case you missed them: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22417038. "Top 5: Golden Dev Ticket (Custom Weapon or Shield Skin)"

And what you did say here:
quote:

I ask that the devs provide a consolation prize to rank 6 Demon Lord Aegon and 7 AANGZUKO. My idea is that they should similarly get their own Golden Dev Ticket for a Weapon or a Shield.

You just made my point so easy, thanks. BTW, I don't actually believe Staff should go back and reward any items beyond the scope of terms as outlined in the Contest Rules beforehand; either THIS year or any other year. That's why I never complained about it before this Contest, but rather to illustrate the hypocrisy of favoritism in doing so:

quote:

Respectfully, no, I refuse to entertain the concept of giving access to the other items to people who missed out on other tiers of Donation Contest sets. As I outlined in my original post, this set of circumstances is sufficiently different enough from the other tiers that I believe it deserves special attention.

^ Your own logic of showing bias toward certain Donation levels of Giving at the expense of ALL other Tier groups. This is a rather Bad precedent to set for the integrity of Contest Rules and one I trust the Staff doesn't want to do. Your arguments are entirely SUBJECTIVE to the whims of After-the-FACT appeasement thinking. Thankfully the Staff has already commented on offering the ENTIRE community some consolation prizes. But NOT simply giving #6 and #7 something they DID NOT earn as you clearly want to do here.

@Gwen
quote:

I agree wthat Aegon and Zuko should receive discretionary Golden Dev tickets this year for technical reasons.

@Weeum
quote:

I don't think 51 and 52 have a voice frankly. The scale of the brackets simply isn't comparable.

^Other unfortunate examples of this kind of appeasement thinking/RULES breaking that seeks to reward a biased/select few at the sheer expense of ALL other Tier groups (50/100/200). Violating the Terms of the Contest RULES should never be considered irrespective of the donator's level of giving. After all, integrity in honoring the RULES of the Contest matters. Otherwise the Contest risks becoming a donate 2 Million Tokens for a Developer Ticket and the rest of the irrelevant Tiers we'll grade on a curve based on # of complaints afterwards kinda-thing (similar to what supporters of this thread want).

Thanks in advance Staff, for your adherence to these RULES. Without them, we don't even have a Contest at all but rather a Free-for-All; determined at the end by those who complain the most about their level of giving and missing out by a purely SUBJECTIVE "scant few", "little bit" or even for "technical reasons".

Cheers! :)

< Message edited by Sir Cloud -- 8/31/2024 17:27:16 >
AQ  Post #: 31
8/31/2024 16:00:09   
Weeum
Member

Yeah nah that doesn't carry water for me. Adhering to RULES is important, and should be done so as closely as possible where appropriate, but RULES also need to be able to be flexible enough to be amended or for exceptions to be given when unprecedented circumstances arise. Based on all available past data no one could have foreseen the contest popping off like it did. Well, it happened. Additionally I think regardless of the RULES the opinions of the top 5 should carry weight since after all, they are the ones who the exclusivity is for. If the top 5 unanimously agree that 6 & 7 kicked in enough that their contributions should be similarly compensated I don't think 51 and 52 have a voice frankly. The scale of the brackets simply isn't comparable.

e: Personally I'm in favor of amending the rules to include an absolute threshold for golden dev tickets in the future. If you shell out $1000+ you should get your personalized flash drawing as far as I'm concerned.

< Message edited by Weeum -- 8/31/2024 16:20:00 >

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AQ AQW  Post #: 32
8/31/2024 16:18:56   
Branl
Member

If it helps, presuming that an additional (public only) Golden Dev ticket was given to top 1-5 as compensation, if 6 and 7 are given compensatory Golden Dev Tickets, I have messaged a staff member regarding an idea I had for an hypothetical second item that would:
1) Synergize with the original item I had planned.
2) Fill a much needed niche.

I think if it goes through, (Given I plan on making my original item public anyway), you guys would be very interested in the item in question.
I wouldn't have floated interest in a (potential) compensatory ticket for the top 1-7 if I didn't think I could justify the potential delay with a much needed item.
But, if it's off the table, regardless, I plan on thoroughly cooking with my original proposal anyway.
I can assure you of that.

EDIT:
If it helps tone down the arguments here, allow me to share some important information:
Every single member of the top 5 has voiced support for compensatory tickets for Aegon and AANG.


Thanks everyone for your feedback on the matter, it has been noticed. A decision has already been made internally on this, so no further discussion is necessary at present. Should anyone wish to offer idea on this for future donation contests please use this thread.. Thanks. ~Anim

< Message edited by AnimalKing -- 8/31/2024 21:11:49 >

_____________________________

IGN: Teryle

There's a method to my madness.
AQ DF  Post #: 33
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