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Current state of the Hero's characterization

 
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1/22/2025 17:36:26   
Dratomos
Helpful!


Over the years, playing main story quests of DragonFable has felt a bit more like a chore for some reason. And I think the most recent quest, even short as it is, finally made me try to write why I feel about this.

It's the handling of Hero. And how they are written.

Hero can be anyone. Even a self-insert. And was planned to be a blank state. But it becomes a problem due to lack of dialogue choices. But Book 1 still managed to make our Hero a lovable person, who can sometimes be a bit of a dummy, or a snarky, but generally a helpful one, who goes on adventures.

And I think Calamity is the highlight of how Hero was written. We felt the stress, uncertainty and we saw them feel things. We felt the rage they felt when our dragon was taken. But for some reason, we have lost that personal touch.
With Book 3, we lost that more and more, when Main story moved forward. The focus on Hero and their memorable lines lessened and their relationships with different characters feel more artificial than earned. Especially in this latest quest. Our friendship with Tomix feels much more real than many others and we feel grief for his loss. But here, our hero states that Teral and Karina are our friends.

Except that it’s entirely possible the player never even met these guys. It would be fine, if Hero was an established character. But they aren’t. They are in odd limbo where they are both self-insert who rarely presents any view on bigger stuff but also state most odd things every now and then. So, to have them talk about friends only reminds me of “my good friend Sielu” -line from Espina Rosa, that is joked about in the community to this day.

I don’t think this is because the writers are incapable of writing Hero. It feels more like an arbitrary restriction than anything else, that is there so that no player would feel like the hero isn’t them. But when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. We are left with a bland main character, that is uninteresting to follow or hear what they say. Because most of the time, it’s very generic stuff. Because of these “restrictions”. There are only so many variations of “time of to be a hero!” our main character can say, before it gets tiring and stale. And it unfortunately happened during Book 3 finale arc.

But then we have cases where our Hero does show personality and views. But it doesn’t fit, because before that in the same storyline, they were written in a way that was most generic. Best example I can think of is Remthalas and how our Hero was ready to fight for him during Defiers of Fate story. But I never got the sense we hero felt any sense of sympathy towards Remthalas. So it was left up to the player. But our hero’s response was not. And it’s this kind of writing that makes it very hard to be invested in our Hero. Or when it comes to killing, where they give responses that can either work for or against killing.

Another example is the choice in Maleurous (this isn't about criticizing that arc, I swear). Hero is written mostly in one way (siding with Uaanta) and then suddenly the character is self-insert once again and you choose between Notha and Uaanta. But, this isn't a bad thing, I prefer this much more than not even trying!

But like I said, I don’t think it’s because you developers are bad at your job. On the contrary, you have already showcased you can write our lovable Hero well.

I don’t wish our Hero to be catered to me. What I want is for them to be more of a clear character with their own motivations, goals, dreams, fears and worldview. We see snippets of that in side stories, but for some reason when it comes to Main story, we don’t. We all know dialogue choices are not really an option, so why not make Hero more of a character of their own?

Have them flex with their knowledge about the lore, or ask questions when others explain stuff to us. Don’t let them always be a silent listener! Have them make snarky remarks, jokes here and there, be stressed, be angry, be anything else except an AI character who responds with generic statements. Have them have nice banter with others (especially with our dragon), maybe tease a little, or just be tired to all shenanigans they experience! Have them be more active! Make more decisions and not just wait for something to happen.

Anything is better than just “time to be a hero!” for the umpteenth time.

I think with the rewrites Book 2 is experiencing and Book 4 development, now is the perfect time to make our Hero more of their own character. How does the trauma of Book 1, losing to Seppy and SMUDD, missing Warlic and all make them feel about the stuff that happens in Book 2? How do they feel when they inevitably find out that Wargoth is one of their oldest friend? Those are interesting stories I wish to experience. Or how do they feel about the world post Book 3? Is there any sense of trauma, feelings of failure, doubts, anything? I hope we get to explore something in Book 4. And with our Hero now having a clear task to stop Aequlibria, I hope to see them more active and use the skills and knowledge they have gathered over the years to do so and not just wait for a new npc to to come in town and tell them stuff.

I understand writing weekly for games like DF is not an easy task and I am grateful for you devs. I wouldn’t write this or play this game for almost 16 years if I didn’t care about it or the work you put. I hope to see more great stories in Book 4!

And in closing, I just want to writers to not restrict yourself because you try to please everyone. It's impossible to succeed in that, so why not make the Hero your own? Give it a spin, and show us why it's specifically Dragonfable's Hero and not just some bland protagonist! Try new stuff, like Maleurous and don't give up if it fails! Better to try something new and learn than just not try at all and stay stale!

< Message edited by Dratomos -- 1/22/2025 17:57:17 >
DF AQW  Post #: 1
2/8/2025 21:41:11   
TFS
Helpful!


This post is very well-articulated and I've got to agree. The later parts of Book 3 kind of fall short for me because of how generally passive and indifferent the protagonist is to just about everything around them; I feel like I'm not very interested in what's happening on screen when my player character isn't, and as stated above that wasn't always the case.

I feel like this isn't just limited to the personality void outlined in the above post, though; it also comes across as if the hero is just not interested in the events of the plot unfolding in front of them. I feel like there have been a couple dozen or so times in Proclamation, Convergence, Maleurous, and the Sulen'Eska rewrites when a concept or character from a prior storyline - or even earlier in the same storyline - is brought up by another character and the protagonist just says "Wow, that's cool." or "Huh, what's that?" instead of calling back and contributing the information we as players know. It often feels like the protagonist is just there to tag along and fight monsters while the other characters are actually participants in the story.
What really takes me out of it, though, is the Hero's general disinterest towards the other characters - particularly ones they have a lot of history with. While the Hero's general passivity towards Sepulchure is almost comical, and the lack of acknowledgement/resolution/catharsis from Jaania after the Book 2 finale is frustrating, the one that really blew my mind was the Hero's complete disinterest in Alexander. Like, how many times have we fought against, fought alongside, defeated, been defeated by, saved, and been saved by this guy over the course of Books 1 and 2? How many years were we frozen together? Then when the Hero is finally reunited with him again at the very end of the game, after being absent from all of Book 3, it's just a couple lines of pop-up text stating that he looks different. Fairly deflating. (Honestly, the fact that all of these characters with so much history didn't have anything to say to each other is an issue with all of Convergence, but that's a huge digression and I think it's best exemplified by the Hero regardless).

This is a pretty good post, did a great job of putting to words something that's bugged me about the later Book 3 releases. I quite liked how the protagonist was handled in some of the middle Book 3 arcs like Calamity and the Gala (and would even prefer the goofier Book 1 version to the current psuedo-silent version), definitely agree with the OP.

< Message edited by TFS -- 2/8/2025 21:43:49 >
DF  Post #: 2
2/9/2025 20:13:53   
Baron Dante
Member

This might be a bit tangential to the exact topic at hand, but I do think it's related in terms of the issues of writing the Hero.
That's how it feels like Book 3 (Particularly the Rifts and onwards, where the issues already outlined come it) is not your story.

The rift storylines are largely irrelevant to the grand story of Book 3. Maybe they'll have further relevance down the line (Particularly the unaccounted one, as has been implied), but at some point you need to make the current story progress instead of building the future.

What we see during this time, and in fact, most of Book 3, is the story of literally anyone BUT the Hero, in the form of dozens of quests showing Jaania, Warlic, Amadeus, Akanthus... and meanwhile, the Hero is off dealing with what I'm just going to call filler, and while they might have a form of a B-plot such as Raven's relation to Zadd, or a reheated dragonslayer meal from AQ3D, it sure is not actually important to the politics(?) that reside at the middle of Book 3.

And this comes back to the Hero being written as a blank slate, really. Can't be a pivotal part of the story beyond handling menial tasks and killing big monsters when your only discernible trait is eating lava for free heals.

Calamity works so well because it's an incredibly personal story, with personal stakes. Being a cog in the machine is the exact opposite of that, go figure.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
2/11/2025 19:47:08   
Glais
Member

quote:

While the Hero's general passivity towards Sepulchure is almost comical, and the lack of acknowledgement/resolution/catharsis from Jaania after the Book 2 finale is frustrating

I haven't had a chance to complete Book 3 yet, but I have found your comments regarding Alexander to be fitting here too. Sepulchure was the source of a lot of death and suffering for the hero/their friends, and it was really odd to me for the reunion in Book 3 to just have the hero talk about how he's come to respect him. I'm fully aware there could be future events I haven't reached that recontextualize the relationship but as-is it felt like the protagonist not taking something seriously with someone they should have tremendous resentment towards. Book 3 as a whole I've enjoyed the writing of, but it is disappointing to hear this trend continued.

_____________________________

DF MQ  Post #: 4
2/23/2025 23:12:22   
GodJank
Member
 

I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the Hero being Wonderbread bland if it wasn't for DragonFable just generally having poor writing. Akanthus ended up being a very lackluster villain, Sepulchure is freely allowed to walk away into the sunset with his kid despite being responsible for COUNTLESS deaths across Lore, and Alden is just walking away to do god-knows-what while leaving his (former) kingdom in the hands of someone who very clearly is too young, inexperienced and unwilling to lead a nation.

But then there's also the fact that sometimes, it feels like the Hero was weirdly little agency in the story. They're rarely making meaningful decisions that drive the story forward, and feel like they're just being treated as a goon or a henchman. A weapon that the other characters are just pointing at the big bad boss, once they job to it. Nevermind the fact that the hero is completely disinterested in the world around them; when was the last time the Hero actively said or did things that drove events forward? It genuinely just feels like they're being treated as a useful idiot. But hey, there's always that FleshWeaver thing that's in the works. The fact that Aegis is (supposedly) deeply integral to the story is making me hope that the Hero will have a story where they're treated as an actual character for once. Surely, Doverly will treat that story with the gravitas it deserves.

quote:

What really takes me out of it, though, is the Hero's general disinterest towards the other characters

tfw everyone's stressing over the Mana Core but I'm just a chill and lowkey guy
Post #: 5
2/25/2025 10:53:40   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


Thanks for the feedback. Writing the main character is definitely something I personally struggle with, which is why they are more expressive in side stories or older content (where I am not the primary script writer).
For Book 3 and such, I definitely focused more on trying to clean up the world and lore and set things up for the future- as I'd like to imagine my strengths lie with world-building- but often, the inter-character dialogue fell by the wayside in favor of conveying information.
I hope I can improve things on this front going forward.

< Message edited by Verlyrus -- 2/25/2025 10:57:00 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 6
2/25/2025 18:24:37   
Dratomos
Helpful!


I appreciate you Verly taking the time to read and respond what I said. I understand it's not easy to write a hero that fits most of the playerbase. I look forward to seeing what you do next!
DF AQW  Post #: 7
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