=PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (Full Version)

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Argeus the Paladin -> =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/2/2008 20:37:02)

I've never read the story. Still, owing to the fact that public opinion on this piece of work is even more polarized than Final Fantasy VII (which half of the players say "love it" and the other half says "it stinks"), I think this is worth a discussion.

A secondary question to consider:

"Are all stories whose demographic market segment is teenagers prone to such polarization?"

Oops, sorry for the Marketing-talk. I was insomniac last night and ended up reading the closest book on the table. You know what it is...



Lady Eliac -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/2/2008 20:40:30)

Twilight is an excellently different take on Vampires. It is not the cliched love story. Stephenie Meyer has created an amazing world within our own. I am a proud fan and I will stand against those who would say otherwise.



.::oDrew -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/2/2008 20:45:57)

I don't particularly mind the book itself, I'm just sick of hearing about Edward.



Crimzon5 -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/2/2008 21:11:26)

I haven't read it yet and all my classmates say that it's good.



Argeus the Paladin -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/2/2008 21:18:36)

Well, the fact is, while half of my (ex)classmates says "How cute" or "How romantic", the other half says "Gross!" or "Not worth reading". I haven't read it, so I don't know (owing to the fact that I almost confine my reading only to historical books)

However, reasoning please.

quote:

I don't particularly mind the book itself, I'm just sick of hearing about Edward. p


I feel that it is starting to bug me as well, unless someone can readily prove that Eddy is:

- More intelligent than Sima Yi.
- More omnipotent than Zhuge Liang.
- Braver than Zhao Zhilong.
- More patriotic than Yue Fei.
...
...

And the list goes on and on. Just one point would work, though.



The Extinguisher -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/2/2008 21:28:10)

I find it extremely annoying how many people just fawn over it. People from my school wear vampire fangs, give themselves names from the characters of the book, and pretend that they are vampires. It's ridiculous.

It also partially stems from my annoyance with people who seriously consider vampires and all that jazz real. And the two groups overlap. A lot.



jerenda -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/3/2008 1:09:27)

Okay, I belong to the group that believes in vampires, and I have read Twilight. It is awful. From a male perspective, the book is pointless. While this is understandable, it is physically possible to write a romace novel that's appealing to males and females. Then again, that's relativitly minor. She's just... gah. It's interesting enough to let me read it all the way through without puking or wanting to throw the book across the room, but it's just not interesting enough to want to read again. Bella is so shallow and dependant, and Edward is such an idiot! The only semi-good character is Jacob, and even he has problems. [spoiler alert, in case you care] Bella's main character trait- um... wait a minute, she has one... that's right. Edward can't read her mind. Which makes her fascinating to him. Which is never really explained, at least to my knowledge. She's also immune to a certain vampires' ability to make others suffer agonizing pain. And is so incredibly dependant on Edward it's sickening. Edward is beautiful, and that's about all that anyone care about. He's also dependant on Bella, and tries to kill himself when he thinks she's dead. The relationship is so... awful. And so many high-schoolers are dependant on their sweethearts, which is not something I agree with.

Anyways. The plotline is really boring, except for the saving grace. For example [more spoilers], in the first book Bella is chased by evil vampires who want to eat her. Her specifically, not just a human. Really, it's because the lead evil vamp knows that by killing her he can get to Edward, and wants to 'challenge himself'. By fighting him. Yeah, okay. Well, the whole chase bit was exiting, but then it got mushy at the very end, and I nearly died. So in each book there's something exiting in the middle that keeps it from being horribly boring. I'll admit she has some good quotes, but the writing style is horrible, and it's just lame overall.

Yet I will not dissuade you from reading it. In fact, it's a good idea, if only to learn what not to do. =P



Sierra_Nocturne -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/3/2008 17:41:48)

I find that I actually like the books. I am the only male I know at my school brave enough to read them and I found that they actually were not that bad. Edward was pretty cool, and his family was awesome. I hated Bella, but that was just me. :D

On the other hand, I really am sick of hearing girls my age fawning over Edward. It's just...ugh.



Necromander -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/3/2008 17:58:57)

*EdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdward*
Yah, just the average discussion of men among my female classmates.
I'm currently under a vow that I will never read Twilight, and I intend to keep that vow.

But from what I've heard it's just an excessive compilation of mediocrity. There's nothing it says that hasn't been said before, but better. It's just a whole bunch of average taped together.



themoodys -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/3/2008 18:12:39)

Yeah all the girls in my class are ubsesing over Edward *spits in disgust*. I mean they are all going to the movie release with shirts saying 'Team Edward'. I mean they were saying how in the book vampires can only be killed by cutting them into strips then burning the strips. I mean that just totally underminds the vampire ideas over the millenmium or watever. Plus i read a bit of it and its all a load of Dralj (it means spawn of maggots in urgal langugage for all those who havent read the eragon series) to me. I mean theres this one girl in my class who is TOTALLY ubsessed with edward and when ever i even insult him *cringes* on comes pain. Plus she has this wierd idea thats hes real and shes going to kill bella get married to him then Edward is going to kill the jonas brothers (who i hate).



Sierra_Nocturne -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/3/2008 18:49:19)

Well the actor has a chin that looks like someone took a hammer to it when he was born.

What I would give for that chin.

Anyway, yes, there are better books out there. And yes, it could be called a compilation of mediocrity. But I'm siding with Lady Eliac on this one and saying that the way she handled vampires was pretty cool.

Oh, and Forks is indeed as boring as Meyer says she was.



r0de0b0y -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/3/2008 22:47:22)

Blatant hype makes everything worse. FFVII? Twilight? Good? Great? T'is a matter of personally opinion. However, anybody who lives by just the hype automatically makes it worse for the rest of us...



Apocalypse -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/3/2008 23:17:46)

I read the book series. Edward was cool...and then came Jacob. Now HE was epic. Edward is still cool, but, in my opinion, Jacob beats him hands down.

Funny, all the guys at my school(including me that have read the Twilight Series came up with something. It's "All straight guys for Team Jacob!"
...
Not saying that anything is wrong with being homosexual...just fit the occasion...

Anyways, I have no desire to see the movie. Would I rent it for a buck or two? Probably.



Firefly -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 17:44:40)

Well, here are two articles that you might find interesting regarding "why people hate Twilight" These are by no means for or against my perspective--just why a few pros don't like Twilight.

http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=958

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/07/AR2008080702528.html

Anyhow, as for me, I've read only the first book. I don't mind it. It wasn't amazing, certainly wasn't something with depth that made me think about it long past the final page, but it entertained me for a few hours, so no complaints. It was hilarious, though Mastin is the only one who agrees with me, lol. You should've seen the school librarian's face when I told her I laughed through Twilight. Anyhow, I agree that it lacks depth, but nothing wrong with it.

I disagree with those who say that she's bad in technical writing. I feel that it's a bias against first person writing. I find nothing wrong with her style; she's not perfect (starting so many sentences with "I" is hard to avoid in first person, but she did take it to the extremes), but I know authors as successful who use run-on sentences and word repetitions and all that jazz.

I don't find the books all that harming to the teen population. The girls who think he's real will grow outta it, and even if they don't, well, not Meyer's fault. What is there to do? Should we blame the death of John Lennon on the guy who wrote The Catcher in the Rye? Should we ban Twilight, when plenty of more objectible books exist--and shouldn't be banned? Some people might wanna read just for a few hours' entertainment, so the lack of depth... Eh, not optimum, but it's not enough to induce hate.

I heard that Twilight the book was good, but that the series got progressively worse as it went on. I dunno, can't confirm this.

I don't think Bella's has no personality. In fact, her arguments with Edward were the /best/ parts of the book, imo. I kept laughing. Anyhow, I say that she had personality in the first book. Maybe she lost it later on in the series due to lovey-smutty-ness. I dunno, I haven't read the later books. And yes, Edward is an idiot, but I actually like him. He's one of those characters who aren't good characters but I don't mind him. But I wholly conceed that it's just me. (Voldemort wasn't an ideal villain, but I liked him)

In a way, I agree with RB's stand on this. There are way worse novels than Twilight out there, and there are crappier teen novels. But Twilight gets the hate 'cause it was the one that got popular. It's far from the worst-novel-ever or worst-influence-ever, but it gets all the bashing 'cause everyone is mad that it got popular. And yes, the hype is annoying. I shut down the TV just now because of the Twilight talk on there. I don't like how they're saying it's Harry Potter with vampires. <_< There is nothing similar between their styles, their content, their whatever in a book except that they're popular. And the fact that I love Harry Potter might've added to my annoyance. Oh, and the Twilight party at my school! No one allowed in the library that day except those who've read Twilight and came with a costume. In fact, I felt so outta the trend that that was why I actually went I read Twilight, lol (or, that was the excuse =P)

Bottom line is, I don't mind Twilight. It's not the deepest book in the world, but it's certainly not worth getting angry over. More than the Twilight hype, I find the it sucks 'cause it's popular or it sucks 'cause it's unpopular paradigm annoying. Twilight got too popular for it's own good, I guess, so it's bound to have haters. You can't please everyone.

On a last note, I still don't get why people think Jacob is so cool, though my opinion of him might change once I read a bit more than the first book.

@Argeus
He's more good-looking than all of them. =P Plus, we're speaking about an English audience here. I'll bet all my savings that more Chinese people know those people you mentioned as opposed to knowing Twilight.

@Jer
What? I'm surprised. I thought you loved Twilight. You told me it inspired a story of yours, that you liked the vampires she portrayed, and you admitted to being a fan. What happened? I clearly remember you saying all those things...



mastin2 -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 18:34:06)

As Firefly has said, I laughed through the whole first book, and a good portion of the others as well. While I live a little farther inland than the Olympic Pennensula, I live in Western Washington, so I can appreciate the weather. While the weather DOES seem a little exaggerated to me, at least two things can contribute to this:
Bella hasn't lived there for long enough at the beginning of the first book; face it, living in a place with a great amount of sun and then going to lots of rain is a drastic change. I know someone who, after YEARS, is still a Northern Californian.
Or it could just be that where I live isn't as bad.

I read the series because I heard that it was popular and happened to have copies around the house, so decided to take it upon myself to read it. I'm kind of sick at myself for taking over a week to read a series I enjoyed so much (one week, four and a half hours. It should've been only five days...). It is an amazing book. I like the different portrayal of the vampire. Uniqueness is good, not bad. I admit, the technical writing skills aren't the best in the world, and if I were to be honest, I imagine there's a good possibility that I could write better. But, honestly, writers never stop improving; she, herself, probably isn't overjoyed at the quality of Twilight. I really enjoyed the fights throughout the series, Bella's conversations with Edward one of the best things it that book, with other arguments in Eclipse also grabbing my attention.

Overall, yes, not the best series in the world. But I enjoyed it. The ending of Breaking Dawn snapped me out of two week's worth of depression in writing. I still think about many, many moments throughout the series even now. It's permanently in my mind because I enjoyed it so much. Yes, in the end, it's just different opinions. Some people will hate it, some will love it, and some...umm...take their likings for the series to the extremes. Quite personally, though, I'd like to ignore that kind of thing. I haven't encountered any people who'd take it to some of these extremes, so can't say that they are annoying. So, without seeing them myself, I must say that I really fail to see how some people can end up hating the series just because some people take their fanboy/girlism to an extreme.



Argeus the Paladin -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 18:48:05)

quote:

He's more good-looking than all of them.


Comparing an ever-young vampire to a battle-harden general with long beard and angry face (or one eye and angry face, or plainly red and angry face, and the options go on and on and on) is ownage in the purest form. Lol.

quote:

*EdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdwardEdward*
Yah, just the average discussion of men among my female classmates.
I'm currently under a vow that I will never read Twilight, and I intend to keep that vow.

But from what I've heard it's just an excessive compilation of mediocrity. There's nothing it says that hasn't been said before, but better. It's just a whole bunch of average taped together.


Maybe, in all fairness, it is because Twilight appeals so much to the crowd of US fangirls just looking for an idol and a so-cute-that-it-doesn't-hold-much-water teenage love story to err... worship (Is that the right word here?) that it has attracted such polarity.

'Cause the more mature people (Or those fascinated more with battles that kills 100000+ people a la Chinese History than the "I love you" stuffs, like myself) will obviously be turned away if those teenage-angst-and-love goes over the edge. Even worse if you have to pay $39.99 for a copy.



Firefly -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 19:09:15)

Note the "=P" Argeus. I was making a joke as opposed to a point, lol. And I forgot to mention that he's strong enough to bench press trucks and fast enough to circle a meadow in two seconds, along with having the ability to live forever. Godmodding in its purest form.

I don't consider myself a shallow reader. I agree that Twilight didn't haunt me past the final page the way One Hundred Years of Solitude did, but hey, it entertained me for a few hours. I didn't like the lovey-dovey stuff; I just loved the arguments and the humour--haven't laughed like that since Arms and the Man. There are plenty of books that cannot do that. Twilight /does/ have a kind of charm, some kind of X-factor that made it work. It just got so popular that people think it's being blown outta proportion, which isn't altogether incorrect.

I did not enjoy the ending "fight" (NOT a fight by my action-attuned senses) in Twilight. This might be going a bit off topic, but I had to address Mastin's comment there. We didn't even see how they owned the enemy, and they took care of it /too easily/. I mean, c'mon, this guy is being told about as being an uber-strong chaser or something (I forgot the exact term) and they killed him in two hits and didn't even get a /scratch/. More godmodding than Argeus and I put together, and it was in the final fight...

Anyhow, I don't mind the series. The above paragraph was just a rant devised by an action fan, so my standards there are rarely met anyways. I just love a good uber final fight.



Argeus the Paladin -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 19:18:44)

Firefly, please stop before I start to see some vast similarities between Twilight and Final Fantasy VIII.

Yeah, I am starting to see it now. Edward is every bit as owning and destructive as the Balamb SeeD (see GFs? Good. See Zantetsuken? Even better. See Lion Heart? That's the number one cause of death for FF VIII monsters, including the last boss.), and Rinoa does have something in common with Bella in terms of damsel-in-distress-ness. The main difference is that Rinoa can defend herself more than well, while Bella cannot.



Firefly -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 19:24:22)

My suggestion: Read the series before drawing similarities. =P

Bella's damsel-in-distress-ness annoyed me at times, but there were times when it was funny, like when she was chased down the dark street by guys and she's trying to remember some moves for self-defence, and Edward wonders why she looks pensive rather than scared.

If there's one thing I hate more than a damsel-in-distress who can't defend herself, it's a damsel-in-distress who /can/ defend herself. The only reason they're constantly being captured is because Author X needs a girl to get captured at such-and-such time and didn't have the ability to choose a girl who can get captured logically. Faux action girls. Blah.



r0de0b0y -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 23:36:18)

Would it kill me to read it un-chronologically? I got Breaking Dawn first, so a lot of things are screwy to me. Oh well. Didn't live up to the expectations of raving fangirls. Dark Knight anyone?

Bella =/= Rinoa. Or Yuna. Or Terra. Or anyone else for that matter. Unless the protagonist for FFXIII manages to be a klutzy death-magnet who rewrites the definition of helpless ness.



Argeus the Paladin -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/4/2008 23:47:45)

Off-topic: The prote of FF XIII is (correct me if I am wrong) a female version of Cloud called Lightning. (Basically they took everything belonging to Cloud's character design, minus the muscles and buster plade, feminize the already feminine parts even more, and there you have it). So there is no way she'd be helpless.



Firefly -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/5/2008 0:41:56)

Heh, I've read plenty of books unchronologically. I read only the third Ringworld book (never got around to reading the first two to this day), read the second His Dark Materials book before any of the others, and maybe a few other instances too.

Meh, honestly, Twilight didn't live up to the hype for me either, but it was good enough to be entertaining. Because it's such a popular book, people hold expectations that are bound to fail. It's not really as bad as plenty of lovey-dovey stuff out there. Don't believe me? Head down to the Girlpower section of my school library...

I'm not familiar with Final Fantasy, but your analysis of Bella is correct, except she does have a few alright parts of personality--she is ready to sacrifice herself for loved ones like her mother; she isn't afraid of Edward being a vampire; she's got enough grit to challenge him when he refuses to make her a vampire. However, I heard that she losses personality as the books progress, so the fact that I didn't hate her in Twilight might change once I read the others. But there are plenty of books I love where I absolutely abhor the protagonist, so meh.



leon lionheart -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/5/2008 11:53:21)

quote:

I'll bet all my savings that more Chinese people know those people you mentioned as opposed to knowing Twilight.


Nah cos I know about all the people he talks about, they're all mostly in Romance of Three kingdoms good book if you can find it >.> As for the FFXIII thing you're right I heard that she was female version of Cloud as well, but this is FF not like them to have a helpless hero (FF12 walks by) oh wait...

Back on topic though I personally never read Twilight althour I hear it's new different and not just the traditional same old Vampy stuff. Although I also heard no werewolves are in it, I may have been misinformed here but no werewolves in this book will no doubt stop me from reading it as I enjoy reading about Snobby upper class muppets (Vampires) Getting beaten up by the kings of the furry animal Kingdom!

Woot go scratching Furrballs!



Firefly -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/5/2008 15:35:19)

/me teams up with Jer to beat up Leo =P

I'm completely pro-vamp. Despite the fact that I kill them off in the dozens in my stories. But vamps > weres!

Okay, back on the topic, you are misinformed. There are werewolves in Twilight. Jacob is a werewolf, in fact. Many people find him cool. I've only read the first book, so I'm still on Edward's side atm, but that might change (or it might not. I sometimes go from not liking a character to liking them, but I rarely go from liking a character to hating them).



jerenda -> RE: =PROSE= Why do people hate Twilight that much? (11/8/2008 1:06:10)

*goes along with Firefly* Quiet, you overgrown ball of fluff. =P

Even though this question was asked a while ago, I feel that I should still answer it.
quote:

@Jer
What? I'm surprised. I thought you loved Twilight. You told me it inspired a story of yours, that you liked the vampires she portrayed, and you admitted to being a fan. What happened? I clearly remember you saying all those things...


What happened... What happened was people told me what happened in Breaking Dawn. Apparantly Edward gives in and Bella ends up with this vampire baby inside her that's... eating her from the inside out? That's what I heard. Anyways, the Twilight thing was fading fast for me, and that knowledge only hastened the decline. I'll admit, her vampires excite me, and she has good phrases every now and again that I like. But... it's just not that good, and it's certainly not worth my time to read a book that ends with murderous vampire babies. Yeah.



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