RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (Full Version)

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Terra -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/12/2010 1:48:01)

@moneybags: imagine having the Z-Token TDB, the star ninja battlesuit and loads of points in strength. [8D] Pure overkill.



Naj -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/12/2010 12:04:23)

500 war kills, looks like it will be over before I can hit 1000.... [:@]



http://aq.battleon.com/build30/charviewWF.asp?temp=63242043



Lord of Nightmares -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/12/2010 12:41:41)

@ Terra:-

That's pretty much what I've been using and yeah, I've been tearing through the opposition like tissue paper for the most part. Although I personally still kinda prefer the Shearhide Form, can't wait for the cap to be raised to 73 so that I can purchase the next Astramorph.

http://aq.battleon.com/build30/charviewWF.asp?temp=63256381



Darkling -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/12/2010 12:45:27)

Whats funny is they are all the enemies from the warp crystal quest which has been my#1 farming spot.
We kinda slowed down a bit: Ben 10 must be on.



Terra -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/12/2010 15:21:30)

@LoN: meh, I prefer star ninja and it's mighty double swing skill. You execute 2 quick and powerful strikes for MASSIVE DAMAGE!! ...ahem, right. Nice character page BTW! [8D]



Digital X -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/12/2010 16:27:37)

A Gunner suit and a high level Gauntlet sure shows these enemies who's boss! Getting some insane lucky strikes so far.



Rhowena -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 2:29:52)

IT'S DONE! Praise the Lords, it's done!

EDIT: Ok, is my Level 47 seriously expected to beat something than can do almost 50 DPT AND has almost 5 times her HP?



Naj -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 2:53:05)

Yup, looks like it's over. My counter stopped at 2:29am at 926 kills. The boss, (Pewterid, for me L70), sure has a lot of HP, I needed to do 2x2 heals before I finished blasting him with my Potassuim Warp Crystal Z & Ospry 10Z2. Picked up a shop item, ( Aberrant Particles Z), to play with.


@above: I had to use heal and mana potions to beat him, and I had the equipment to get my dark stat down to 52, he was hitting for ~25-55 even then.


The new item has a neat set of green meteor/fireballs and (may) switch ALL the enemy's elemental stats at the same time, i.e.: FIRE <=> ICE, WATER <=> ENERGY, WIND <=> EARTH, LIGHT <=> DARKNESS. It is useful in the cases I can switch an enemy elemental stats to better fit my attack style, i.e. blast away with my warp crystal and finish with the Ospry. While some may say that is is not that great a weapon it allows you to need FEWER WEAPONS when for example you don't have to carry the best in ICE & FIRE at the same time. That little trick alone will save me in future upgrade costs and 'bag space'.

http://aq.battleon.com/build30/charviewWF.asp?temp=63242043




Zeraldo -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 3:14:33)

Wow, this guy's wiping the floor with me. 3k Hp is quite intimdating compared to my 400ish HP. : P

I'll try again later.



Digital X -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 4:37:07)

My level 66 has only 25 END, and i had to use 3 HP Potions, that was quite a tough battle, but an enjoyable one!



Lord of Nightmares -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 6:01:16)

My level 66 got hit for roughly 80-100 damage per turn on average *and* the joker dodged at least half of my attacks. Needless to say, I haven't managed to defeat this boss yet. >_<



Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 8:48:32)

I lost 23 HP Potions and 20 MP Potions against Pewterid Level 70.
I believe, he is the strongest monster in WF.



moneybags -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 10:28:26)

Beat Pewterid, screenie. Gotta say, it was tough, but I think it's pretty balanced for a boss monster. What I did:

You can see the equipment I used on the screenie, with that setup, I got my Darkness resistance to 58%. Also, I used the WarpGuardian Helmet (highest possible level for me), which reduced Darkness to 54%. I'm not exactly sure if there are any other miscs that lower it even more, but that's what I used. I've got 0 END, so I started the battle with 430 HP and MP. As you can see, my STR is maxed out, so I was consistently dealing 100+ damage. Not much else to say-- I used 2 health potions when my HP was at 100 or so. During the monsters I fought before the war, I used the Knee attack or the Weapon Throw attack to raise my SP bar up. When I got to Pewterid, I just spammed the Kick attack. I think it only missed once, so I'm either really lucky, or my STR&DEX covered for it. I think the special activated once, but I don't think that really matters as one of my normal attacks can deal equal or more than the special can.

Good luck to you guys :).

For people more interested in rewards, it's a
spoiler:


Fire skill.



sunblaze -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 11:39:02)

Beat him 3 out of 4 only my first needed to redo the quest because I had a mp-sucking guest.

Advise don't use mp-sucking guests you need the mana for healing.
Also tronzos blade, star-ninja and new network gauntlet help tremendously. (darkness resistance.........)



Nex del Vida -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 12:55:18)

I lost to the L70 Pewterid the first time I fought him because I wasn't paying attention, but I managed to beat him the second and third times using only 2 HP potions. His gold reward is quite good, but not good enough to warrant farming him--he's such a long fight. How much XP does he give, for those of you who haven't hit the cap?




Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 14:35:32)

Nex: Pewterid Level 70 has about 3191 HP

For people: The Rewards
quote:

Bizarre Specks(L1)
Weird Motes(L15)
Freaky Mites(L24)
Aberrant Particles Z(L49Z)
WG Peculiar lotas(L58G)
WG Bizarre Flecks(L82G)



Zeraldo -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 15:46:19)

Woot, beat Pewterid after picking up the Star Ninja Shinobi armor.



element resistance -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 17:23:29)

To be honest, that has got to be, the suckiest reward ever![:@] Seriously hard boss meaning bad rewards. I think I still like the Nefadon war better.



Tristar Nexus -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 17:53:10)

While this episode with the Hadeni draws to a close, I feel I should make one final attempt to declassify them from the undead ranks.
Wall of text follows:
Given what Falerin has said about the undeads methods of gaining energy (which was not the way I thought it worked (not that I had any idea how it did)) I have to say that undead are by definition plants. Not green and leafy but direct absorbers of energy (admittedly agressive plants in this instances but you do get such anyway). That pointless obsevation aside I'm finding the methodology used in the standard "7 attributes of life" flawed.

First off Chemistry and to a lesser extent biology are based on the foundation that there is no magic. Not even in a "grey area" sense but in the "We disproved Alchemy while we were writing the manual" sort of way. To my knowledge biology has provided no workable models for legions of self sustaining undead at this time, the most realistic portails of undead in literature without magic shows undead lasting a few months before collapsing due to lack of body to consume for energy. This is not to say that Biology and Chemistry are not important in designing a concept of life but rather that the general structures provided by the fields are more important than the constraints imposed by the same fields that gave them.

The 7 characteristics of life (in a very simplified context are as follows:
1. Living Things are Composed of Cells
2. Living Things Have Different Levels of Organization
3. Living Things Use Energy
4. Living Things Respond To Their Environment
5. Living Things Grow
6. Living Things Reproduce
7. Living Things Adapt To Their Environment

So, 3, 4, 6 and 7 are given by what Falerin provided. 5 is probably given (unless Hadeni are born fully grown). As to characteristics 1 and 2, the answer is magic - though not in the way one would expect.

What is magic? Hard to say. In this instance though it is shown to be a fully functional system. Undead can "absorb" energy, move body parts, speek, store energy and reproduce. As the bones of the skeletons are not to my knowledge responsible for these actions we have the funny scenerio in which an undead is a magical construct that happens to be attached to a set of bones. "Magic" in this instance has mimicked the organizational levels of biotic based beings to perfection. What ever is responsible for absorbing energy is different from the thing that stores enery which is completely different from the vocal apparatus which in turn has nothing to do with the energy that is consumed to move body parts - and thats not even related to the magic that moves the body parts! What we have here is a completely magic based being which has different levels of organisation within its "magical construct" which covers characteristic 2.

As to characteristic 1. I feel its a given fact that if the magical entity is composed of levels of organised magical structures, then those magical structures are composed of baseline magical compositions that are comparable to cells in every aspect.

The last point to cover is that of metabolic nessesity. Falerin has said that biological beings use either Oxidative Metabolism or chemical reactions to aquire energy. The Hadeni seem to absorb energy which is then converted to energy by other energy based structures and used by energy based energy requiring constructs to do stuff (like moving body parts). Basically its magic in followed by burning the magic with magic and finally using burning magic to power the magic that moves ligaments. While the whole magic is as magic does argument put here is not the most concrete hypothesis ever put forward, the whole point of magic is that it never is concrete. Magic is defined by what it does and not by where it comes from. Whether it originates from the gods, the river of life, a magical clock or just sheer awesomeness, magic is an end result and not an arguable process (this includes the halfway procedures of making bigger spells with lots of smaller spells and all the smaller spells are defined by their effect and not their origin).

The Hadeni are not undead as they have satisfied every condition necessary for life. The fact that their bodies are decomposing is a comical side point as the magical structure (soul?) that operates the cadaver is the actual living entity.

The only problem I have with Falerins original statement was the use of the word "blurred". Had the word "blurred" been "intertwined" or "bridged" I'd have agreed with it but as the boundaries between life and death were never conflicted in any serios way, I feel obliged to say that the Hadeni are an utterly living species under there universes "Here there be magic" subclause.





moneybags -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 18:11:43)

element resistance,

Not really, the skill does have an interesting effect; first skill to have it in WF. And anyways, this is just kind of a 'bonus' release-- I didn't expect an all out war chest with weapons, battlesuits, miscs, skills, etc. from the start.



element resistance -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 19:01:01)

Ehhhhhhhh I don't know. I only find level 82 very interesting until 8 more levels later then it become useless to me.[:'(]



Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 19:30:13)

This spell reminds me off the Mutant Dragonblade. Those effect are exactly the same. :)



netosmar -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 22:34:57)

Wow! That was an awesome boss! I used 20 HP potions and 4 MP potions to beat the level 50 one. And I was pretty lucky too.
Now... Can someone who is good at AQ explain some of the plot to me? Also, who is this Milly that Galrick talks about?



Falerin -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 22:43:46)

Netosmar:

Dr. Milly Mendas


Tristar,

The appeal to magic is a logical fallacy. After all what is any undead save a creature given a semblance of life via "magic". It seems to me you are tripped up on the idea that necrotic magic that comes from a necromancer is somehow different in some fundamental way. I assert to you that magic is magic. The Hadeni are not particularly inherently magical creatures really either. WF has established that "magic" is very much reduced away from lorian sort. I further assert Clarkes 3rd Law.

Magic in and of itself is merely a different form of science. It has fixed and regular laws. The scientific method is very important to magical inquiry among the School of Thought for instance.

That said. Several individuals here can attest that I more or less predicted your argument in its entirety.

I predicted your argument precisely because it is a very sound argument. It is the correct argument. It's implications however I do not think you fully appreciate. When I spoke of Hadeni blurring the issue. What was being blurred was not the line between life and death. What was being blurred was the line between living and undead.

You have suggested two alternative words intertwined, and bridged. These are interesting choices. I have another suggestion entirely.

Eradicated.

Let us for a moment consider something. Let us compare the concept of life and death. To emotions.

I will select two very easy ones for illustrative purposes.

Happiness and Sadness.

These emotions are generally considered opposite much as life and death are.

We will equate, somewhat unintuitively. Happiness with Death and Sadness with Life. While this correspondence seems unitutive because death and sadness are both objectively considered negative. It is the association that works here because what I am demonstrating is linguistic.

Given that consider this:

Being A is Sad thus being A is Alive
Being B is Happy thus being B is Dead
Being C is Unhappy thus being C is ???

Now... what is your understanding of what the word Unhappy actually means...

Given the rules of language. I think we can draw a clear conclusion Being C is Alive as to be Unhappy is to be Sad.

My somewhat radical assertion is that though they are Necrotic beings... the Hadeni do indeed meet the 7 criterion as you suggest. I would suggest they have cells very directly and do not even require appeal to magic but that the chemical processes in the cells are necrotic rather than biologic...

Given this I assert that the Undead Hadeni are dare I use a PC term "Differently Alive" then the people of Lore but are indeed Living. As say a sentient lightning bolt might be "Differently Alive" than a person of Lore as well.

Un means Not. The Hadeni are NOT dead. That is concurred with.

I would further argue that this distinction is not unique to the Hadeni. This applies to most all sentient undead creatures. WHile their transition may damage certain processes, for instance reproduction. If a being is injured or suffers illness that sterilizes them are they ordinarily categorzed as no longer alive? They are not.

Now this raises the question if there is no Undeath only different sorts of life. How are their items that work specifically undead.

To which I will point out to you that there are poisions in the real world that specifically interfere with the cellular function of Bacteria. These substances are called antibiotics. Antibiotics do not kill or harm eukaryotic cells. They specifically target the chemical processes that drive living prokaryotic ones (bacterium).

Weapons that Target undead are much the same. They specifically interfere with necrotic forms of motility and function.

What is poison to one species is medicine to another.

Q.E.D.

Falerin
Loremaster.








Lord of Nightmares -> RE: =WF= BIZARRE FLECKS CROSSOVER with AQ! Release is Live! (5/13/2010 23:49:57)

I lost to the level 70 version for the 2nd time.

I actually could've won, but I got careless when I got it down to 900+ HP. My HP was around 35 or so, and I wanted to click on the double-potion icon, but I accidentally drank only 1 potion instead, which healed me for 84 HP. Then the joker attacked and deal me a critical hit which took off 130+ HP. [:@]

I'll probably try this again later on once I've recoupled my stock of health potions and when I'm feeling up to it. ;_;

Edit: Well, just managed to finally beat him, although I had to consume 12 health potions in the proess. Also picked up the WG Peculiar Iotas as a memento of what has been the most difficult fight for me in WF to date. Now to go farming for potions again...... -_-;;



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