Should Realism Impede Balance? (Full Version)

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He Who Lurks -> Should Realism Impede Balance? (2/28/2011 16:57:39)

Balance has been a very critical part of this game as early as mid-beta and many modifications(modifications that more than 90% of the gaming community does not have accurate information about) have been made to preserve balance. Many of you may not have known this, but realism has actually been a deciding factor regarding balance on the old EDF. These arguments usually revolved around there being physical staves for techmages due to the fact that the staff(BigTuna strongly supported this thought) believed staves quote:

"Regarding the issue with Tech Mage staff choices:

As per the nature of Tech Mage weaponry, it makes sense that a staff would do energy damage."

, as said by Bigtuna.

I do not agree with this however.

Another issue I've seen is the fact that most weapon requirements "seem" to be set on realistic nature. For example, all classes except Mercenary are not able to use their super moves without the need of a class weapon. Both of their skills are designed with class specific weapons in mind also. The same can be said for plasma bolt, plasma rain, and bludgeon. All require some sort of long weaponry to properly perform.

I don't believe we should let realism control the game for us, I think believe the staff should "rewrite" reality instead (:. Where do you stand on this issue?



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (2/28/2011 18:49:53)

No it shouldn't. It doesn't anyway.

Why would a burning desire to kill -- Bloodlust -- require technological skills?

Why would the ability to move in the shadows -- Shadow Arts -- require support?

Why would talking on a walkie talkie to send bombs at your foes -- Artillery Strike -- Require a huge amount of dexterity?

Why would being a sharpshooter -- Deadly Aim -- require support? A dexterity requirement would make sense. It takes reflexes to have deadly aim. A technology requirement would make sense. Maybe you have targeting technology. But no, they use support. Just for BALANCE. (I had no idea low supp DA builds were OP, btw...)


So just admit you can't use "logic" consistently so you should just give it up and let mages have physical staves.



He Who Lurks -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (2/28/2011 18:52:59)

^I'm not against mages having physical staves, I'm actually agreeing with you.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (2/28/2011 19:19:26)

I agree with both of you it doesnt make sence.This game never does how can you have over 50 more support then somone and they go first and crit and deflect more then you?



Wandering Guardian -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (2/28/2011 20:53:01)

We see some realism I suppose in the base stats of the classes, with mercs being the strongest and healthiest as they are the largest, bounty hunters being dextrous and balanced in health and energy, and mages being energy and technology focused.

Considering such realisms, i have to agree that it does seem strange as to some of the stat requirements that have been added to particular skills.

~WG



Lectrix -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/1/2011 0:18:29)

Because I'm a Tech Mage, I agree; why should we have only one Physical Staff, or be forced to use Swords that render half of our Skill Tree useless?

This brings back many unpleasant memories of my... debate with InTheSky... "just use a Staff"... [8|]



King FrostLich -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/1/2011 0:25:33)

Balance, balance, SHMALANCE!!! If everyone hates losing to other people then do NPC's. It does't matter when they're more boring than fighting people but at least they give you same amount of credits, influence and tokens and at least a win.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/1/2011 5:47:51)

I understand you He Who Lurks , its realy ridiculus that mages dont have a physical class specific weapon and why mercs can use a lot skills without class specific wep.
Merc skills useable with sword: Double Strike , Hybrid , Field Commander , Intimidate , Bunker Buster , Artilary , Berserker , Surgical , Blood Shield (there is only 2 skill require club : Atom Smasher and Maul)= 9 skills
BH skills useable with sword:Smoke , Energy Shield , EMP grenade , Bloodlust , Stun Grenade , Multi SHot , Reflex Boost , Shadow Arts = 8 skills
Mage skills useable with sword:Defense Matrix , Technician , Malfunction , Reroute , Deadly Aim = 5 skills

And Mages require sword more than other classes because there isnt a Physical Staff

Mage - make asim useable without staff , and maybe Overload



Cinderella -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/1/2011 11:48:15)

@Isaiah- underdogs have a boost to first strike chance.



Vick Vega -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/1/2011 16:56:34)

quote:

@Isaiah- underdogs have a boost to first strike chance.
\\

Which should be removed immediatly.



8x -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/1/2011 16:59:08)

^No... Its one of the few things that gives at least some fairness to lower lvls.



Nebula -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/2/2011 11:57:11)

quote:

Mage - make asim useable without staff , and maybe Overload


Assimilation yes, Overload no. That doesn't make sense at all to have Overload useable with a sword. You cast lightning to attack your opponent, how can you possible do that with a sword?
Yeah. Mages need physical staves, big time.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/2/2011 13:38:40)

@Nebula

like rising sword to sky and calling a lightning on enemy :D , the main thing is Mages has too much Class wep skills



voidance -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/2/2011 13:44:35)

Merc's have 2 and one they rarely use, Bh's have 3 and one they rarely use and cheapshot they only use because you start with it, Mages have 6 LOL and we dont use them most times because of staff req's. It's also dumb that merc's and Bh's multi dont req a class weapon but mages do.



Nebula -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/2/2011 13:45:20)

That wouldn't work. Overload definitly is a staff skill. Yeah, they do make too many, and don't give mages any staves other than energy ones.
For a long period of time almost every staff ( Azrael was the only exception ) released was weaker than every other primary weapon released at the same level.

Assimilation and Bludgeon are two skills that really don't need to be staff-only. They can work with a sword, but the actual casting skills can't.



voidance -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/2/2011 13:48:31)

So merc's just got their bunker buster launcher tucked in their pocket? its dumb to say it cant be possible because mages need staves to cast spells, ive played many games where mages dont need em. And besides alchemy isnt even real so how can you say its not possible?



He Who Lurks -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/2/2011 15:01:23)

quote:

Assimilation yes, Overload no. That doesn't make sense at all to have Overload useable with a sword.


A fine example of realism impeding balance.



PhoenixGladiator -> RE: Should Realism Impede Balance? (3/2/2011 16:08:46)

I find this thread quite funny actually. Who is ANYONE to say that you need a staff to call lightning down from the sky? People create games to create alternate realities (pretty much). NW and Titan can do whatever they want and inside the game, it will be realistic. There is no set foundation for FICTIONAL games.

And guess what. Mercenaries are getting a new skill where they pull an elephant out of their butt, hurl it a mile into the sky, set it on fire on the way down, and then they turn it into a marshmallow right before it hits the opponent.



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