What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (Full Version)

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Sparticus -> What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 16:01:04)

In the last several weeks I've had to explain how damage is calculated, how defense and resistance effect damage and what are the chances of having certain amounts of damage done both to you and against you.

The easiest way to answer this question is to point you to the ED Wiki and tell you to go read but clearly that isn't working. So I wanted to give an example, show how I figured out the numbers, show my math and then explain what it means. If you don't understand what damage you can do and what damage can be done to you, you will have a tougher time winning here.

First off, nothing in this game is an absolute number. You'll notice that in this game everything is given in a range. Example 32-39 DEF or 29-33 +30 damage.
There is also a random number generator(RNG) that decides which exact number to use out of that range when calculating things. The random number generator(RNG) has just as much chance of picking the lowest number out of a range as is does picking the highest of any number in between. Those are the numbers that are used to calculate both damage and defense.

Here is an example: I have a BOT that does 29-33 +30 damage (59-63 damage). The guy I'm attacking has 32-39 defense.

Question 1: How much damage can I do at the most to this guy?
Answer 1: The most the RNG will pick as your possible damage is the highest number in your damage range or in this case 63. The lowest number the RNG can pick for his defense would be the lowest number for his defense with in this case is 32. That means you attack with 63 and they defend with 32, 63-32=31 damage. So the highest damage I can normally do would be 31.

Question 2: What would be the lowest damage I can do to the same guy?
Answer 2: The RNG can choose your lowest damage possible which is 59. It can also give your opponent his highest defense which would be 39. 59-39=20 So the least damage you can do against the same guy is 20.

Question 3: What are the odds of getting any number between the lowest damage or 20 and the highest damage of 31?
Answer 3: Well if you start to do the math starting with the lowest damage possible minus the the lowest defense then add one to defense till you get to the highest defense you get a range between 20-27. If you do the same for 60 damage you get 21-28. Do this for every level up to 63 damage and you end up with ranges that overlap each other. Every time a number comes up in a range you count it once so that you get the following breakdown. 27, 26, 25 and 24 come up 5 times, 23 and 28 come up 4 times, 22 and 29 come up 3 times, 21 and 30 come up 2 times and 20 and 31 only come out once each. If you figure out the odds based on how frequently the number from the rage comes up you get the following %.

24, 25, 26, 27 = 12.5% of the time
23, 28 = 10% of the time
22, 29 = 7.5% of the time
21, 30 = 5% of the time
20, 31 = 2.5% of the time

This means that 50% of the time the damage will fall between 24-27
This means that 70% of the time the damage will fall between 23-28
This also means you have a 2.5% chance of getting either the highest or lowest number

You can use these odds for many ranges to estimate the damage, just find the middle of the range and plus or minus 2. That's a fair range for possible damage and then figure you have about a 2/3 chance of landing within that range.
EX: 20-31 damage range divided in half is 25 plus or minus 2 is 23-27 which happens about 66% or 2/3 of the time.

Remember, the random number generator is responsible for the ultimate numbers used so don't blame your opponent, don't blame support or luck or some random DEV for the RNG. Sometimes you will do better and other times worse. Optimally, your RNG will do the best and your opponent's RNG will do it's worst but the odds of that are slim, actually 2.5% or less.




5rr5 -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 16:03:14)

Sparticus, you'r a smart feller :)




uria9 -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 16:08:30)

there's something obviously wrong with the people who asked question 1 and 2 >.> , how could you not know how to add and subtract




Tiago X -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 16:10:20)

This HAS to be stickied in the ED guides.




H4ll0w33n -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 16:34:53)

@uria9
lol yeah ;)




AQWPlayer -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 17:46:12)

The easy way to calculate damage is to get used to the weapon and know about how much damage it will do to enemies with different defenses.




Shadronica -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 18:55:27)

Thanks for taking the time to explain damage Spart. ;)




king julian -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 19:14:04)

its rely simple math and probility ive been learning about this in my geometry class and its RELY easy sparticus just simplified it and put it in words




jegaggin -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 20:34:10)

well i normally calculate lowest attack vs high defence. its safe because u'll always get higher




Sparticus -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 21:38:31)

You can always play it safe and calculate the lowest possible damage amount but in my experience some of my best wins were skin of the teeth, just enough hits that you can only get if you know the fattest part of the range and can estimate your chances of success. Ask anyone who has battled me, I seem to just edge them out in the end. You can only get those close call wins consistently if you measure your odds. I'd rather lose based on the RNG beating me then my opponent just out playing me.




Wraith -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 22:31:04)

^I always lose based on the RNG. A level 29 merc with absorbed scream, gamma guard, boomstick, and Beta Bazooka critted me twice, stunned, me, deflected me, and blocked me. That was considering he had less in every stat except energy and strength. But considering this was a one-time only thing, going with your idea seems quite good.




Aere -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 22:40:01)

I'm REALLY mad I did the (literally) exact same thing, and it's a guide on the EDWiki, and it's also been up for quite near a year.

Sorry, this just made me scowl really hard. :/

EDIT:: With the exceptions of the chances for each individual damage.
EDIT2:: Yeah, nobody really clicks on the wiki.




Sparticus -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 22:52:27)

@Aere: Note the first thing I did was quote the ED WIKI and put in a link for those who can't seem to find it when they need it. The questions of how to figure out the damage ranges are the simplest to answer, its the odds that most players ask for and they are not in the ED WIKI as you pointed out. They are, however, harder to calculate and more important to know. That's why I did the calculations the long way and then give the "short and dirty" version to figure the % out. That way you can trust the quick estimated range and make a decision based on your odds before the clock counts down. No time for a calculator during a battle now is there?




Aere -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 23:15:13)

Which is why I edited my post two times. Nothing against you of course; but many people have thought of this exact formula before, and you are probably going to receive most/much of the credit, simply because more people will see it here.

And for a 'short and dirty' version, just do what Jeg said, and calculate lowest attack vs. highest defence. Then you know you will (probably) hit higher.




koolymon -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/8/2011 23:43:55)

:O spartys smart i never would have thought *continues hitting head against wall*




Shadronica -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/9/2011 0:05:33)

Aere, I have no doubt that you and perhaps a few other players have posted about the damage. In fact I remember a few posts in the old EDF.

It doesn't hurt really to re-hash old important information so that the ALL players can understand.

Also it doesn't hurt for ED Wiki to get a plug every now and then because ALL players forget from time to time to go check out the ED Wiki as it has a fair bit of the information recorded.

I miss our old EDF. Though it has become a bit harder to search when I last looked at it. Not sure but I don't think I could search my own posts. I wish we could access it again but it does make me feel nostalgic for all the hype of early beta days with so very many wonderful (some not so wonderful) players that have disappeared.

We used to have some great laughs in there. Actually our old EDF was most entertaining :P

I wonder when the EDF will ever become available again. Its been gone a fair while now.





Sparticus -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/9/2011 7:46:14)

@Shadronica: http://forums.epicduel.com no longer works so the old ED forum is no longer available as a resource. You are of course correct that reposting information is helpful, both to the poster and to the reader.

@Aere: Sadly, if this is about who gets credit then I want to state for the record I was not the first, second, third or 100th to write on this topic. If you would like to claim credit for this feel free. I only posted this information as a public service, in a clear and simple way so that I didn't have to answer the same questions over and over again. Now I can just redirect players to this post. As an aside, I do send them to the ED WIKI but the volume of information scares them off so its less useful then you hope it would be.

To everyone else, don't give me credit for being able to do simple math, simple odds and have the time to actually type it all out. I don't want the credit for doing something that should be as second nature as breathing to an experienced ED player.




T.600 -> RE: What Are The Odds Of Doing Damage? (5/9/2011 7:51:35)

I hate maths, I'm not reading this. ;D




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