RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (Full Version)

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xxmirxx -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 3:16:34)

I don't think merc are OPed there just some are very skill merc.



BlueKatz -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 3:27:10)

oh lol, Mer is not OP... sureee

Best low level
Best mid level
Best high level
Best non Var class
Best 2vs2
Best in 1vs (still can take 1vs1 leader board even with BH spam those day, once best in 1vs before SA age, well I should say "among the bests")
Best Gears in game
Fastest class in game (Stun Zerker)



Lectrix -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 3:28:09)

@T.600: My Tech Mage's name is Jaller. Care to define "noob"? Because in my opinion, a "noob" is a Player who spams a Stat and doesn't bother to think. And I can tell you right now, I'm not a Player who spams a Stat and doesn't bother to think.

If it's not the Mercs' fault that I'm losing, then can someone please explain what happened to me today? Like I said earlier:

quote:

All of a sudden, I went from winning most of my Battles, to winning only about 1 in 10. I couldn't believe what had happened.

The only difference that I noticed today was that I faced an unusually large amount of Mercs -- most of them were Support Mercs. Yet, that made all the difference in the world.

Also, would anyone care to explain this (?):

quote:

In terms of 2v2, Mercs have everything laid out neatly in front of them; Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters have a harder time finding a good Build. Clearly, we don't have Balance. If you still insist that 2v2 Mercs aren't overpowered, then please explain why there are so many Mercs in 2v2.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 3:48:21)

quote:

The funny thing is that I get most of my losses from mages... And people still call them UPed... -.-


quote:

but i really hate how everyone tries to make merc look like gods among other classes.

I agree with that, people should first try to be mercs and then talk about us.


a quote from 8rlx0 and goldslayer.

what they say are the truth. u guys should try being merc before accusing us to be godly or OPed.




T.600 -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 3:54:26)

Lectrix I'm afraid the reason why you're having problems is possibly because you have non varium weapons. Next time when you say mages are underpowered, you should say non varium mages are underpowered; infact all non variums are and they deserve some new weapons once in a while!



Nebula -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 3:59:29)

Why don't you Mercs try being us before you say Mercs aren't overpowered? Maybe you don't notice because the battles go by so quickly, some of you say because you've been a class before so you know everything about it and your knowledge is better than ours. When was the last time you were in 2v2 as a Mage, exactly?

I was a Merc once, 2v2 was never easier. I could 2-hit one enemy and leave the other helpless with a barely thought-out support build.
I can handle Mercs in 2v2 as a mage, but not two. If I'm up against two I literaly have no hope, since it'll just be aux + multi and aux + multi and I'll be dead, most of the time. Only time I have a shot is if my partner is decent and/or doesn't run away.



Lectrix -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 4:01:29)

I hate how none of you Mercs are bothering to address this:

quote:

In terms of 2v2, Mercs have everything laid out neatly in front of them; Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters have a harder time finding a good Build. Clearly, we don't have Balance. If you still insist that 2v2 Mercs aren't overpowered, then please explain why there are so many Mercs in 2v2.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 4:04:51)

1 have a bh file, a merc file and a mage file so i know wat builds are oped and non var mages are not UPed. my mage trashes merc in 2v2 if my partner hear and follow what i tell them my bh is a beast. she beats merc like hell because 1 emp and good bye merc.

quick battle do not = to oped.

@ below below

most merc are energy relient or have minum energy. a tech bh trashed them who care bout thier rage because most of the have ENERGY eggzooka. robo just smoke em and thier robo wont hit ya plus sa makes things worse. they dun us ethier gun and dun use thier main that often because they either have weak str or average str. assuming it is 2v2. mercs would either use support build or 5 focus. emp kills both and smoke makes life harder for them. so emp is very worth it. they rage u can always heal with blood lust or a normal heal.as i said many time a -43 emp is enuf to distroy mercs. they will waste a turn to use energy booster so basically they also wast a turn.

@ below below below

this is about 2v2 not 1v1 so dun not talk bout 1v1. 1) support merc do not do wins fast (well it depends on your partner) 2) 2v2 speed depends on u and your partner not yourself. 30 luck factor is what make support merc kill fast so without luck support mercs= stupid and slow. emp makes them go slow because support merc are energy relient a -43 emp is enuf to counter ther stupid energy booster u guys do not calculate all u guys say is oh merc are oped because we r fast and do not find a way to slow us down. what if u get emp, wat if u get a noob partner people with high hp and on both barriers,vsing a tank merc,bh,mage,defelction, crits and many more luck factors.



BlueKatz -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 4:05:41)

quote:

what they say are the truth. u guys should try being merc before accusing us to be godly or OPed.


Did on all classes lol

In fact, I'm enjoying killing some lv 32 noob with my non Var Lv 27 Mer



Lectrix -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 4:13:07)

@Luna: That still doesn't completely address my post, but I'd like to point a few things out.

EMP Grenade basically uses up a turn, so that your opponent can perform a weaker attack; nevertheless, your opponent still attacks (AND increases their Rage Meter).

Some Mercs are carrying Energy Boosters these days. EMP Grenade --> Energy Booster means you both wasted a turn.

Also, since when have Tech Mages experienced a "quick Battle"? Their Battles are only quick when they're annihilated in two or three turns (usually by Strength or Support Mercs...).

Edit: You're forgetting the other advantages that Mercs gain with high Support, including decreased Deflection chance (increased in terms of defense) and increased Critical Hit % (decreased in terms of defense). Also, it is unlikely that an EMP Grenade will drain a Merc's Energy completely, leaving enough Energy for Skills like Double Strike, Field Commander, Intimidate, or Field Medic (and we all know how powerful a Support Merc's Field Medic is).



Nebula -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 4:24:06)

@Luna I was meaning you can with battles so much faster than the other two classes, specifically strength Mercs in 1v1 and Support Mercs in 2v2.



Jacktaz -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 10:42:14)

Ok when did i say ever once merc was OP?...
Read my post twice and tell me again.
Also this is a nice discussion so far please dont turn it in to a flame war.
Thanks
-Jack.



Cookielord12 -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 10:51:51)

haha its not as simple as EMP. there are such things as mercs using energy boosters



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 12:47:08)

^ u guys are not so smart sorry to say that but a -43 energy emp can kill a merc with max arty and lvl 1 heal y because 61-43=18,18+25=43=no multi still. do u really need me to explain simple maths to u go back elementary school if u do not know all this simple math.



Nebula -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 12:58:36)

Not all Hunters have a -43 emp, and no mage can take away more than 10 energy. You're using one way to ruin a Support Merc's strategy to make up for its power in 2v2. Support Mercs will ALWAYS have max Multi and lvl 1 - 2 heal, but only some Bounty Hunters will cary an EMP able to get rid of all of their energy and if they don't they're pretty much screwed.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 13:02:10)

ehem u do notice varium players have like loads more slots to enh. enh is for all weps now 43 emp can be achieved easily with effort even with just 4 focus. u can have lvl 5 emp or lvl 6 emp and still minus 43 energy now. rembers stat inflation.

as for mages u use assimilation to just anoy them they will be forced to use a booster whne the booster is not really needed and basically they waste a turn and rember assimilation increases rage bar fyi.



Light Stridr -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 14:31:42)

Right, this is going nowhere.

I'll say what I feel like saying and address stuff here and now.

1. There are definitely way too many mercs.
Whether that's because they are OPed or not, the fact remains they are still there.

2.Removing energy with EMP, asim, etc.
A decent merc will now have a few extra points on their energy to counter asim and reduce the effectiveness of EMP.

3. Artillery strike is OPed.
No matter what people say, it is by far the best of the multis. Not only is it the only physical multi, it also ignores 10% defences.
Forget the "You have malf" argument, a TM will spend around 70 energy to make their multi effective on ONE person, while a sup merc can use 44 to absolutely batter the opponents.

Solutions:
Increase the energy requirement to step 4 energy for artillery, or lower the others to step 1.
Increase Asim's effectiveness.
Reorganize the skill trees of both TMs and BHs, to make it easier for them to choose 1 clear path like mercs can.

Any questions?



Lectrix -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 21:27:14)

@Above: Right you are. There ARE definitely way too many Mercs. Especially in 2v2. As I said above (and have yet to be answered):

quote:

In terms of 2v2, Mercs have everything laid out neatly in front of them; Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters have a harder time finding a good Build. Clearly, we don't have Balance. If you still insist that 2v2 Mercs aren't overpowered, then please explain why there are so many Mercs in 2v2.


@Luna: Your argument regarding EMP Grenade is incredibly weak. I mean, honestly, what are the odds that a Bounty Hunters will have an EMP Grenade that drain 43 Energy? It's not impossible, of course, but definitely not probable. And even if a Bounty Hunter could drain 43 Energy, most Support Mercs would still have their insane Field Medics. Not to mention their other Skills, like Field Commander, Intimidate, and Double Strike. By the time you factor in Critical Hits and all of the advantages that come with high Support, anyone can see that Support Mercs are overpowered.

And you don't honestly think a Tech Mage could get very far with Assimilation, right? Once the Tech Mage or their partner is knocked out, a Merc will probably just spend 32 Energy on Artillery Strike (likely boosted with Rage). Why would the Merc bother to use an Energy Booster in a situation like that?


Sooner or later, a Merc will come along and start complaining about Bounty Hunters. By why should they? Mercs are the best suited Class when it comes to countering Bounty Hunters. Hybrid Armor gives them a passive Shield against Smoke Screen. Intimidate weakens Strength Bounty Hunters. "Skills" like Bunker Buster and Artillery Strike can't be blocked by Shadow Arts (Really, I'm getting sick of complaints about Shadow Arts. It can only give Bounty Hunters a 10% CHANCE to Block. The key word here is "CHANCE". Shadow Arts is certainly not as reliable as Hybrid Armor.).

Any more arguments? I can (and will) counter any arguments that you Mercs could possibly provide.

Edit: I wrote up the part about Shadow Arts BEFORE the new "Bounty hunter blocking over power" Thread emerged. How ironic.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 22:10:24)

^ my argumens are not weak. the fact is merc are weak without thier energy because all the can do is and zooka and not gain anything. bh gain hp mages gain energy with every atk. wat do merc do whne the dun have energy the rely on thier robot or unblockables but a simple smoke a bb gamma bot and unblockables have cool down. my non varium tech bh is trashing lvl 29 merc when she is just lvl 25. bh have sa to counter mercs blockables. the fact is a bh is way stronger in 2v2 than a merc because of thier ability to take energy. u say thta my argument for a -43 emp bh are weak but the fact it it is sooooo bloody easy to get a -43 emp. max out emp and have 80 tech and u can go around minusing 43 energy. 80 tech is so simple to have now a days with enhancments so do not say my arguments are weak. fc waste a turn ds can be blocked when a bh has max sa and smokes the merc. most merc have mininum dex because they do not have any use for dex. merc are so easy to beat with a bh if u know wat to do. I know that u are going wat if there are 2 merc. simple just target 1 who has more support. Oh Oh and wat if they both team up and use 2 energy booster( chances of that happening are low not all mercs are smart enuf to carry booster) but if it does happen i dun think they can sucessfully do 2 multi because 1 of them should be dead by the time they finish using 2 energy booster.

and mind us the emp dun just stop at 43 u can have more most bh in 2v2 are 5 focus bh with gamma bot. some smart bh go 4 focus and have higher tech. if u have 110 tech a lvl 6 emp is enuf for -43. imagine if the emp was maxed it should that like 48 energy. merc mow a dave dun have 77 energy. most have minimum or 61 energy. so stop nsaying merc are oped and look at bh. bh can fight mercs in 2v2 without struggling. bh are not doing 2v2 because they are the kings of 1v1. noy because they find merc oped.



xxmirxx -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/9/2011 23:38:40)

quote:

Lectrix I'm afraid the reason why you're having problems is possibly because you have non varium weapons. Next time when you say mages are underpowered, you should say non varium mages are underpowered; infact all non variums are and they deserve some new weapons once in a while!


I agree with you its non varium mages just too weak. most non varium mages aren't like me. I know am bad against boss but as 1vs1 type of mage I am. I am better and very skill in my opinion but most non varium mages aren't skill.



Wraith -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 0:09:02)

Luna and Lectrix: My EMP does -40. I planned on Level 9 so I could dominate 2vs2, but decided to stick to 1vs1 and have -40 rather than -4?



Lectrix -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 2:01:14)

@Luna: Like I said, it's not impossible to have an EMP Grenade that drains 40(+) Energy. But from personal experience, I can tell you that only about 1 in 10 Bounty Hunters in 2v2 will use their EMP Grenades (without being asked to do so by their partner). Quite honestly, there aren't enough Bounty Hunters in 2v2 to support your argument.

Hybrid Armor provides a passive Shield against Physical Attacks that doesn't require a turn to activate; no other Class has anything like it. Consequently, Bounty Hunters who utilize a Smoke Build will suffer greatly against Mercs, especially at lower Levels.

The vast majority of 2v2 Players are Support Mercs; Support Mercs rarely use their Blockable Attacks (and when they do, it tends to lead to a quicker Rage). Mercs have some of the best Unblockable Attacks/Skills in the Game; it's not my fault it a Merc decides to focus on their Blockable Attacks/Skills.

You seem to have forgotten that Support Mercs have insanely powerful Field Medics. They survive a lot longer than you think (or are willing to admit), especially if they have Varium.

I can't see why Bounty Hunters would only concentrate on 1v1 when they can be just as powerful in 2v2. I'm still looking for a good answer to my question: Why are there so many Mercs in 2v2?



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 2:27:40)

there not enuf bounties in 2v2 because the bounties prefer 1v1 because 1v1 is easy does not depend on your partner and it all depends on yourself. basically they rather go 1v1 than waste thier time in 2v2. most great bh 2v2 like segaman,phalanx,velvet,a new guy name silent. have high emp because they know it kills mercs and most of the other classes too. i m sure u do not even know who they all are but they did well during beta and some even were in alltimes 2v2 as bh. even morrigan started off a bh and all of these peope use high emp builds when they were bh. the top 3 last time was morrigan,fj and phalanx. 1 merc at the top 3 possition of 2v2 alltimes and 2 bh. so wat does this mean it is possible for bh to play 2v2 but thye just dont want to do s because of the unbalance partering. ys i do agree some non var bh are quite clueless on how to use emp. this is because no1 taught them how to use it all they can think off is spam dex and spam multi like most mercs and mages do to thier multi. these bh really need some1 non var bh to look up 2 like evry1 looks up to new hope because she is 1st in 2v2 alltimes and is a merc. i have made build and eve tested out builds for them now it is just up 2 them to either take my advice(sometiems i set a side 1 h to just teach 1 or 2 non var bh/merc/mage a build) or just ignore it and keep on losing. i cant spoon feed them all the way. there are limitations and i can only teach them if they are willing to learn. IMO people now a days are just too lazy to think of build. they rather control c and control v the build u get wat i mean.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 10:03:13)

I support. @Lectrix your right Mercs are OPed anyone who thinks a person who can kill their opponet in 2 turns and can have 140 support and hit 61 crit and 71 crit with high support is blind. @Luna and T.600 you both arent seeing what he is saying. 2 vs 2 mercs are Oped its a fact not a opinion. I been a Merc,BH and Mage. I am a level 31 Merc and even I know where OPed. Mercs can easily make any build we have everything ready for us BH and Mages have to think thier build out. Note: I am refering to non varium BH. For mages even varium mages are UPed. I mean people you know why we cant see the balance? Becauser their is none. Nor will thier ever be with all this flaming.



Jacktaz -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 11:37:09)

@Luna
Wow first you say we are dumb and tell us to go back to elementry school.
well to begin with your grammar and spelling sucks.
Anyway Yes We need a boost because mercs are always dominating 2v2.
if you are one of those mercs who just put alot on tech and support you will double malf with out a crit and the mage will waste a turn.
You clearly dont want other classes been better than mercs in 2v2 cause you know your precious support build will not be top as the tree as it use to be if this happend.
and you always complain at the devs for not giving nv nothing.
WE PAY TO GET ITEMS.
YOU BUY OR DIE.



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