The Issues Causing Mages to be Weaker (Full Version)

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endtime -> The Issues Causing Mages to be Weaker (5/12/2011 21:23:07)

I play every class at a high level with the best varium gear available, so I have excellent knowledge each class' capacity. Here are some major problems I have identified with the mage class:

1. Agility and lowered heal cooldown have hampered mages' reroute.

2. 6 Skills are limited for their specialty weapon (the staff). Mercenaries only have 2 skills restricted and BHs only 3. Since swords are consistently the best weapons, in terms of damage, stats, and now special effects such as increased critical chance, this is siginificant.

3. Other classes have more of a choice in weapons, i.e. except for one bad physical staff, all the staves are energy-based.

4. While Mercenaries have Hybrid/Healing and Bounties have Bloodlust/Shadow Arts/Healing to help stay alive, mages only have Healing for staying alive--which was fine before agility and prolonged heal cooldown.

5. Plasma bolt, plasma rain, supercharge, technician, and assimilate are significantly weaker than their counterparts in the other classes.

Example: Reflex boost gives 15% energy back and increments by 3, technician gives nothing extra and increments by 2 after level 4.

Example: Massacre is clearly a good move and Surgical takes away rage, which can often be tactically smart. Supercharge ignores 20% resistance, but since it rarely hits above 20 unless many skill points are invested, it really does not matter. Also, investing many points into supercharge is not too advantageous either. It hits relatively low damage and costs an insane amount of energy. Meanwhile, massacre and surgical strike are still effective at level 1.

Example: Plasma bolt is restricted to a staff and has no special side effects besides incrementing by 3 throughout. Meanwhile, bunker buster ignores 20% and has a 25% chance of critical, and cheap shot is very versatile and also has similar effects as bunker buster.




xxmirxx -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 21:27:15)

No there not varium mages get up to 90 to 96 percent is that Uped. as non varium mages get 75 to 80 is that Uped power. there are more non varium mages that are over 20k as non varium. Its really non varium bounty are Uped.
They need to be nerf



Wraith -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 21:28:09)

You have provided good points. I will now try my best to respond to your complaints.

1 Agility was made so that Tech Mages would have a penalty after having huge loads of health and retaining high defenses. The heal cooldown affects all classes. I have been in many a battle where if the cooldown was 3, I would have healed.

2 That is indeed a point where it should be changed, but think about the animations. Assimilation could make the hilt of the sword glow, then stab, but you have to take that into consideration.

Others coming soon.



RyIke -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 21:31:16)

@mir
You know your sarcasm is not needed nor helpful.

On Topic: There are many builds that can be useful against other classes while using a mage. Having a high def martix is key and a good technician as well. Support/dex are very helpful and are needed in a tech mages build. But i must agree with you, tech mages do get the "raw end of the deal" here in epic duel... well for now.



H4ll0w33n -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 21:31:50)

so what they could do is:

remove staff req. off some skills like plasma rain, bludgeon, supercharge, so its 3 with req.
make technician stronger. (2nd tier so no special ability like the 3 tier Reflex)
make supercharge stronger.
make plasma bolt have a critical chance. (1st tier so no resistance ignore)




Shadronica -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 21:44:40)

Mage is currently the hardest class to play. I definitely agree with that.

I do not wish to see the heal looping mage return so let me get that clear.

However, it is high time that mages skill tree gets revised.
There is hardly a point to a high level mage spellcaster and yes we have been asking for a good physical staff since 5,000 BC. ;) The reason a physical staff has been requested is so that we have a choice of physical attacks against a merc who has hybrid or a BH with energy shields.

I totally agree that mages got the rough end of the pineapple when the recent new skills were introduced since assimilate is blockable and requires a staff to use it. The other classes don't need a class specific primary to use theirs.

I honestly thought that mages were going to get their time in the sun as they did last year from April to August. Seems to me that mages are the forgotten class this year.



The Joker X -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 21:46:20)

Yea well we mages have been complaining for far too long and I havent seen anything on that list even mentioned by the devs; not even an explanation as to why we only have 1 physical staff. Good list btw, I hope Cinderalla at least sees it.



AQWPlayer -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 22:02:17)

quote:

so what they could do is:

remove staff req. off some skills like plasma rain, bludgeon, supercharge, so its 3 with req.
make technician stronger. (2nd tier so no special ability like the 3 tier Reflex)
make supercharge stronger.
make plasma bolt have a critical chance. (1st tier so no resistance ignore)

A better idea would be to change their tiers and give them special abilities.



xxmirxx -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 22:17:34)

quote:

@mir You know your sarcasm is not needed nor helpful.

I wasn't at all I actually mean it.



RyIke -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 22:52:34)

@mir

So your saying mages need to be nerfed and bounties need to be Buffed?



xxmirxx -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 23:03:33)

I am just saying mages. cause they tech shield that can boost there robots damage. I was just say real Uped class is non varium bounties.



Aere -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 23:34:38)

Bunker Buster is technically par with the super skills. 20% defence ignore and 25% critical is more then Supercharge gives.

But, Cheap Shot is pretty much completely useless. It gets blocked very often (for some reason), and ignores a small amount of defence without high investment.



Remorse -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 23:56:11)

I agree with many off your points however you are comparing many of your bad skills to mercs who's skill are all good, eg. Multi, Bunker, Surgical strike, compared to Plasma and overload etc, but you are forgeting that BH skills are just as bad, MUlti is barley ever used, stun grenade is conisderably useless and is only used as a last resort stun,

The point is rather than just make mages skills better, make BH and Mages attck skills ( plasma, multies, stun grenades etc.) up to the same standars as mercs skills making them actully usefuel to use in fights.

As for you thinking BH Skills are better than mages, sure reflex is slightly better but dont forgot that your malfunction is 10 times better than our smoke. Smoke may increase blocks but malf imprves coniderably better means it removes more resistance, it nerfs robots!! ( Better than intimidate in terms of nerfing attacks) , it nerfs useful skills such as bunker, smoke, surgical strike, emp, . SO saying mages have worse skills than BH is not true,

So to fix many problems inculding putting mages back up to standard, why not improve BH and Tech Mage's Attack skills to become useful in fights and give a reason for thre rerouted energy to be used in something as healing a second time has become considerably harder for them.



SCORPIOZZz -> RE: Problems with mages (5/12/2011 23:59:51)

i as a mage have no problem at all nor with 5 focus tech mercs nor 5 focus bhz nor str merc/bhz not even support merces i got a 96% in lbz but it goes down to 92-93 due to cnx problems but im still ok with it :) but i think that reroute should be a 2 round cooldown not 3 so if blocked u can retry faster :)



Shadow Jester -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 1:32:06)

Nice post endtime.. I never talked to you but you a good mage. Glad to see you noticing these problems



sk1tz -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 2:13:19)

speaking as a +5focus merc with a very good build. the only class that i have trouble with is support mage or bot mage. I dont think mages are uped at all and to be honest if mages get a buff ill change to mage. currently the game is actually very balanced except i reckon stat diminish should start a little earlier on the strength stat. The only people saying mages are UPed are the mages with rubbish builds and havent learnt you gotta play defensive first and slowly wittle down your opponent.



Mr.Pablo Jr. -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 2:39:04)

Well to start with, good to see you on the forums, we could always use the voice of a very experienced player. We all know mage is most-likely the hardest class to play. One of the biggest problems is the lack of a physical staff. Staffs unlock all of the mage's skills, but an energy staff is somewhat useless when a mage can't run a strength build. If a physical staff were to be made, it wouldopen the dorr to many new builds and somewhat close the gap that seperate mage from all the other classes.

Another issue is indeed the skills. They are extremely weak compared to their mercenary counterparts. EpicDuel will most likely never see a full-out caster build at the higher level because of the shortage in hit points. If it were to be raised, we just mighht begin to see a couple of casters here and there. But because of these disabilities, even the best mages are sometimes confined to NPCs.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 8:10:01)

@XxMirxx So after this person showing many clear points while mages are at a disadvantage you want them to be nerfed even more? You also want non varium bounties to be buffed I agree with that but nerfing mages are you serious? The most UPed class of the year? Please dont post if your gonna post non sence. No one will take you seriously. You have provivded no points as to why MAges should be nerfed because they have high win ratio so? STR Mercs have low win ratio yet they are OPed so dont accuse Mages of needing a nerf.

@Arer Cheap Shot is in no way useless. If a BH had high dex it wouldnt block as often. At level 10 cheap shot ignores 34% of defences with a 25% crit chance and cost only 19 energy. How is that useless? I find that as a very powerful skill even stronger then Masscre. Massscre just gives 86-140% more damage no one can do a max masscre build anymore but a level 1 or 2 will work and that is only 86-90% more dmg. So no I am sticking with Cheap Shot.

@Skitz Mages are UPed he just gave many clear points. Where talking about all mages. Not everyone wants to play super hard to be a mage. This game is no way balanced. Where are you people getting that rubish? Its clear mages are at a huge disadvantage. Mercs dont need any skills they have builds laid out in front of them. They dont need any effort.



ForTun3 -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 12:56:44)

... i love my mage, n i have a sword u just need to build it right, but... i do think that mb making the mages multi att have no wep req might work?

edit:
quote:

Matgon
Your point 1, 2 and 3 were completely obvious nothing we didn't know that being said points 4 and 5 are quite good and I would take into consideration if I was a dev.


i knw it was obvious just thort it needed to be said, thanx tho man hopefully they do, im shaw it wldnt take much to update it.



Matgon -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 13:03:54)

Your point 1, 2 and 3 were completely obvious nothing we didn't know that being said points 4 and 5 are quite good and I would take into consideration if I was a dev.



xxmirxx -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 14:51:28)

quote:

@XxMirxx So after this person showing many clear points while mages are at a disadvantage you want them to be nerfed even more? You also want non varium bounties to be buffed I agree with that but nerfing mages are you serious? The most UPed class of the year? Please dont post if your gonna post non sence. No one will take you seriously. You have provivded no points as to why MAges should be nerfed because they have high win ratio so? STR Mercs have low win ratio yet they are OPed so dont accuse Mages of needing a nerf.


mages don't need buff for one thing we never use are plamsa rainning. Are percent is quite high we get as varium mage 90 to 96 at 200 plus wins and non varium mages get 75 to 80 percent ranged at 200 wins. Merc aren't Oped they up to 70 to 75 and varium merc hit up to 85 to 90 percent. Stop complaining say merc Oped they don't even have recoute or blood lust. they got no defence they just got offence skills.



wario the great -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 15:07:25)

endtime ur a good mage too bad i havent seen you ingame and tbh mages are doing quite good but i agree we need our skill tree to be fixed and we really need a good physical staff we have ask as shadronica said from 5000bc and we never had it while other classes have got good weapons both energy and physical i normally dont comnplain much but i agree we need at least a little to help mages and mir non var mages are the most uped they dont have hardly any good weps idk how non var bhs are uped they do quite good tbh



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 15:32:37)

quote:

mages don't need buff for one thing we never use are plamsa rainning. Are percent is quite high we get as varium mage 90 to 96 at 200 plus wins and non varium mages get 75 to 80 percent ranged at 200 wins. Merc aren't Oped they up to 70 to 75 and varium merc hit up to 85 to 90 percent. Stop complaining say merc Oped they don't even have recoute or blood lust. they got no defence they just got offence skills


Stop refering to win % that is ludiris points. STR Mercs have a low win % yet they are OPed they can kill you in two turns how on earth is that not OPed? Mercs do have a defence we have Hybrid armor(Which didnt deserve to be debuffed). Mages do need a buff. You completely ignore his entire post. I have no need to point out at points because he pointed them all out. So stop ignoring his post and actually read it. His post proves Mages are at a disadvantage and if you cant see it then to bad for you but just know no one will take anyone seriously who thinks killing someone in 2 turns without any thought and strategy and even thinking is not OPed.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 15:33:56)

The main reason mages are weak because they cant use reroute effective.

Before using reroute we need to know few things , first reroute converts a percent of all damage received to energy so you need to get dmg to use reroute effective.

Now before agility most mages have +140 hp which allow them to use reroute and not die but now with 90 hp its imposible to gain some energy without dying.

The reasons why reroute is useless:

Reroute:
1)Unpredictable , well you cant guess what dmg will your oponent do so its not a strategic skill.
Ex:Imagine you have maxed Plasma Bolt (require 33 energy) and you got 20 energy left for using plasma you need 13 more energy for this your oponent should do 44 dmg but what if he do 40 dmg Dang!!! :S you will not able to use plasma and probably he will kill you next turn.

2)Its Not defensive or Offensive : Well Bloodlust directly add some points in to hp and Hybrid directly add defense but for reroute you have to use some skill to make it work this costs turn
the reason reroute is useless is because it always cost turns this make mages slow and weaker.

3)Requires low def/res: For make it work you need to allow your oponent to hit you some dmg so if you tank against them reroute will not work and if you have low def/res than you cant protect your self because of 4 turn heal.

But Bloodlust + Hybrid doesnt depend anything and you dont need to predict the amount you will gain and they dont require turn to use and they dont require low def



xxmirxx -> RE: Problems with mages (5/13/2011 15:41:45)

quote:

Stop refering to win % that is ludiris points. STR Mercs have a low win % yet they are OPed they can kill you in two turns how on earth is that not OPed? Mercs do have a defence we have Hybrid armor(Which didnt deserve to be debuffed). Mages do need a buff. You completely ignore his entire post. I have no need to point out at points because he pointed them all out. So stop ignoring his post and actually read it. His post proves Mages are at a disadvantage and if you cant see it then to bad for you but just know no one will take anyone seriously who thinks killing someone in 2 turns without any thought and strategy and even thinking is not OPed.

That fact you don't even know whats like to be merc. My merc has more wins then you so I know more about merc then you. btw its your built the problem not mages if you were smarted you would use high tech and dex built energy armor. btw your not even mage stop act like your mage.



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