RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (Full Version)

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DillBagel -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:01:17)

Off-topic: Mods, they're just like everyone else, but they don't get warned for owning people.[;)]

On-topic: Wiseman, you made a very good representation of the "majority rules" clause.



Sageofpeace -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:01:35)

@Wiseman no to be rude but 10$ are 10$ and a achievement is not worth it and you know it very well and whats so special of playing a BROKEN feature a week for all other can. You they really treat us like idiot after everyone buy the card they announced that is going to be credit also. if it wasn't because i know is your job and you at least play the game i would have troll you like a mad man even if it got me banned because is very clear that we are not getting or money worth our appreciation as customers. Achievement is a broken feature while is true that some people are happy with it there are other that are not. I am of those, i wanted hard working and earn able stuff whats the point of having something that you can just buy. Whats funny is that spending money in not the problem since people still buy but that is worthless.

For the record i have nothing against you since you actually are a very active player and do videos on youtube which are fun but i do hate Titan and nightwraith because they threat us like idiots at least i feel the way and i know many others who do.

Removed the name calling. It's completely unnecessary. ~Ashari



DillBagel -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:04:09)

@Sageofpeace
You are doing exactly what the other complainers are doing.
You're taking your opinion and trying to make it seem viable that everyone else has the same opinion.
It doesn't work when there are people posting that they don't share your opinion.



Ashari -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:05:32)

@Nexus...: It's true that there are other issue, such as a few balance problems that ED still has to deal with, but this week was dedicated to Juggernaut Battle Mode. It was introduced last week as a test, so it wouldn't be right to leave it unfinished to go and focus on other unrelated areas. Balance and other changes will come, but first I think the new Juggernaut mode should be fixed up and polished so it is in a usable state.

I won't go pulling up each individual post, but there were plenty of time that 2v1 was suggested. You can see for yourself by the amount of posts in the Battle Mode suggestion thread. It was something that a large part of the community wanted. Maybe not exactly this implementation, but this feature was asked for plenty of times.



Nexus... -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:06:11)

I don't know why Wiseman thinks the majority of players like the idea of an achievement rather then a weapon or a robot, or a refund, or anything other then an achievement. He has no way of knowing that, in which case its all his speculation and none of what he says on that topic is valid.

@Ashari

Oh I know its been suggested many times. In fact this has been the most anticipated feature for me, and to be honest, they really messed it up. Like someone said a few posts back, they made it Varium, the community hated it, they quickly tacked on a reward, and now we all get a USELESS achievement that does nothing but give me approximately 2000 rating points. In a PVP game a weapon or something USEFULL would have been a much more "rewarding" reward.

EpicE4



Sageofpeace -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:07:31)

@Dillbagelwould you mind explaining with details



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:10:50)

When I read everyone's opinion, they are all right.

Hopefully the developers will really revisit this chapter as the game evolves. I think the suggestion I made prior would be well appreciated by all instead of some.

To pay to have access to a test. This is what the core is about. The developers got the players to invest and tested this feature, the players got nothing more then a promise of a "Gift" as a thank-you for paying to test. Just reading this sounds odd. And the achievement and head start on the board is nothing more then status points. Some players wish for substance points.

And for the suggestion that this feature was more like the 5000AC coin Hat. Please don't use that analogy for it really doesn't apply. Because an easy counter is when AQW was testing PVP mode, there was no charge to do it, all you had to be was a member.

Some players will feel satisfied with this achievement other will feel cheated. I personally feel and respect everyone's opinion because they are all valid.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:14:46)

quote:

Well, since your a moderator I guess i'm supposed to run in terror or something because i'm a "troll" now? Right? Pretty sure that what you just made me out to be. Someone who rants at the developers and hates the game, and can never be satisfied? Yeah you just took you mod power and shoved it in my face and said "HEY! I've got the power here and how dare you voice an opinion that goes against what the developers are doin!". Well maybe I am wrong. Thats beside the point.

First of all, you point that "Achievments are more permanent..." is completely invalid. My weapon is JUST as permanent as an achievement accept I can fight and win with a weapon :)

Second. I hate to say it, but you really are quite ignorant if you cannot see that this game has some issues. Its not only me. Look around the forum. I'm not being a self centered troll, rampaging on my own. THERE ARE ALOT of upset people, so before you generalize me as someone with no valid opinion, why don't you take a 360 and see that a lot of the players are upset and unhappy. Once you have done that then maybe you won't be so quick to tell me I should just leave, because before you know it, everyones going to watching Netflix, and all that will be left is you and a few others who can afford to pay for a game that is nothing more then a scam (at this point)

from what i read that wiseman said, it makes sense.

quote:

I don't know why Wiseman thinks the majority of players like the idea of an achievement rather then a weapon or a robot, or a refund, or anything other then an achievement. He has no way of knowing that, in which case its all his speculation and none of what he says on that topic is valid.

i am fine with an achievement, i did suggest an armor (slayer's armor to be exact) but im ok if thats not the reward. and achievement is ok because it helps ur rating points, and higher rating points helps ur overall reputation.


and like ashari said alot of people suggested it, including myself and alot of my friends.

quote:

no to be rude but 10$ are 10$ and a achievement is not worth it and you know it very well and whats so special of playing a BROKEN feature a week for all other can.
i spent 20 to capitalize 2 letters on my name, and that was my choice, its ur choice if u want the skull card or not. alot of people did the same only for the rating points, same with class changes. i class changed to try out mage in the heal loop era, and to get the achievement. when heal died i switch to 5 focus when it was 7X focus damage after it went 6X focus damage i switch back to merc.
these features are completely up to u if u want them or not. if u dont like it, dont come bash them



He Who Lurks -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:17:57)


Wiseman's comments:
quote:

Now with that said, the Juggernaut mode may not be what everyone wanted, and the developers could have probably asked opinions before releasing it. However most that can afford it are happy with it, and they are glad that the developers at least tried to release something new for us to do.

The key word is most, you cant satisfy everyone all the time, so the correct option is to try to satisfy the majority.


quote:

Have you even been reading the other players responses, or just posting out of the blue? More players are fine with the reward and the mode then against it, all of the complaints have came from the same small group of players over and over.


You've contradicted yourself there. Also, how can you say that most players are pleased with the Juggernaut mode when only players over level 20 may participate? Not only that, but what about the ones who have repeatedly been beaten by the premium players? If most of the community was truly content with this release, what would be the point of the staff adding a few adjustments to it? Things just don't add up with your posting manner.



mehmehmehmeh -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:18:33)

This game is nothing without players. Players are nothing without games. When one side tips the "perfect" (far from perfect actually) balance, one side will anger. If you argue enough, you'll probably get something done about it. Right? Don't blame us for "ranting"; there's not too much us players can do about it.

"perspective" is the furthest thing from sympathy here. If devs actually cared about the varium amount, they would refund the varium and remove the cards from our inventories.




goldslayer1 -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:20:14)

quote:

but what about the ones who have repeatedly been beaten by the premium players?

being beatened is part of the cycle of lvling up.
if ur around lvl 27-28 ur gonna get beatened alot by lvl 33s
those lvl 22-26 are at that stage where they are in "the right of passage" to the real epic duel (basically higher lvl)
its completely normal for a low lvl non varium to be beatened by someone higher lvl and better gear.



Sageofpeace -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:21:38)

@ you are funny. Because of people like you they keep making idiotic update did they say it was going to be credit when they release it no they didn't

Please watch the language ~Cinderella



Wiseman -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:22:07)

@ Sageofpeace: You are correct in the fact that Juggernaut mode is broken...which is why it needed to be tested, and wasn't released to everyone from the start. If it wasn't tested and polished then it would have remained broken, however the developers are already listening to the issues that players mentioned with the feature and plan to improve it next release. When something is being tested, you should expect it to be broken.

Thanks for reading.



Cinderella -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:23:52)

@Sage- I am a student- I'm well aware of how the economy is (I'm currently trying to find a lab to fund me). $10 is a lot for some people, and we wanted to keep the Juggernaut battles limited because we weren't sure if it might break the game.



Buffy A. Summers -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:30:54)

I Have To Strongly Agree With Nexus Here...

Allow Me To Point Out Some Facts...Not OPINION, But FACTS.

1st

We Were Promised This 2vs1 Battle Mode For Almost 16 Months.

The Fact That We Waited That Long To Have Yet Another "Unfinished" Thing Given To Us In This Game Is Silly...And They Make Us PAY For It, Again.

There Is No Excuse For That. So, Are The Developers Admitting, That They Just Threw This Together Recently?

Proving They Had Been Lying For Months Prior, Stating That A New Battle Mode Was Coming Soon?

2nd

This Is The Complete OPPOSITE Of What Many Long Time Players Had Expected & Hoped For In A 2vs1 Mode.

We Were TOLD By Titan/Nightwraith That It Would Be Boss Battles.

That 2 High Level Players Would Team Up To Challenge A High Level Boss (Like A George Lowe Type Or Zedmir Lvl 50)

Now It Turns Out... We Are The Bosses To Battle.

That Is Quite Different Then We Had Expected And Hoped For.

3rd

Linking This New Battle Mode With 2vs2 Has Ruined 2vs2 To An Extent.

From "Team" Faction Wins/Team Dailies/And Those Who Simply Wish To Play "Normal" 2vs2.

WHY The Records And Seperate Mode Could Not Have Been Set From The Begining Is Beyond Ridiculous.

Why Not Have It Be A 3rd And Unique Battle Mode From The Start?

4th

If You Wanted To Reward True "Battle Testers"...Only Give It To Those With 300+ Juggernaut Battles.

I Can Have A Level 1 Player Who Did 0 Juggernaut Battles Get the Achivement, Simply By Buying The Gold Card.

5th

I'd Like To Use AQW As An Example, Since A Few Have Mentioned It In This Thread.

Long Ago, When They "Tested" Their PvP Mode On The Old PTR Server...

Players Were Later Awarded With An Achievement (PTR-PvP Tester) And A "Rare" (Necromancer Class Turned Into A Shadow Cape) Item.

Not Everyone In This Game Wants/Needs Another Achievement. It's Not Bad, The Achievement...BUT...

A Special Armor, With The Same EXACT Stats, As Say "Space Armor", But A Different Look (Slayer/Juggernaut Armor)... Would Have Been A REALLY Nice Touch And True Reward.

Something, USABLE And Equippable In Game.

In Closing,,,

Can The Mods/Admins See... Why Many Players Are Upset And Feel A Bit Cheated?

KEEP IN MIND... This Doesn't Even Include All The Poor Low-Mid Level Players Who Were Abused, Used And Destroyed This Week.

AND All The "Free" Players Who ONCE Again Were Completely IGNORED.

And The Mods Have The Nerve To Get Upset When Players Say The Game Is Purely MONEY DRIVEN And Voice Their (CUSTOMER) Complaints!


Edited to remove non-constructive complaints. ~Everest



Nexus... -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:31:59)

@Cinderella

You said it yourself. The economy isn't great...Why then would you charge us 1200 VARIUM!!!!!!!! I just don't get it. At a time when the communities morality is at an all time low because of varium based everythings, you decide to test a new battle mode by making people pay $10. Ridiculous (not you cindy, but the admins who actually make these decisions. You just have to apologize for them.)

@Wise

You said something along the lines of "the majority of players like this release" in a previous post, when the majority of players (most of the non-varium community, and a large chunk of the varium community are in an uproar. Logic please? Also I've seen a total of maybe 25 people defending this topic, and almost double that against it.

@Buffy

Spectacular :) You nailed it. This is a joke, and the only people defending it are the ones who havn't realized it.

EpicE4



Shadronica -> RE: =ED= New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:34:02)

I think this revised Juggernaut mode is a good improvement. Level 27s and 28s are better equipped to deal out some bite. ;)

I was going to say more in this post and thought better of it. I really just don't like seeing people in power positions telling players to go ahead and quit if they don't like it.

I understand the frustration of the moderators and game developers at times as it is impossible to make everyone happy but telling players to leave if they don't like it is more or less a backhand.

In actual fact I do find that this AE/ED forum is quite hostile at times and I know our old ED forum could sometimes be a little outrageous but it was always tamed with either sensibility or good humour. (Humor* for stateside) [;)]

We also had a good rapport with our game dev's in the old ED forum too.

I dunno it seems everyone involved with ED has kinda lost their way.

It would be nice to see some direction coming from our game developers. Perhaps a friendly post here and there giving us an idea of what they have in mind even if they test the waters with their ideas to get a little nice feedback with pros and cons for what they intend on implementing.

Currently we all feel quite remote from the admin. Its kind of like a faction leader who once was a great faction leader but now we (the faction mems) hardly ever see our faction leader anymore so there is no discussion about the direction of the faction or whether the faction leader cares. (low morale)

I do hope the Juggernaut mode works out well as it will give us all more choices.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:36:49)

quote:

most of the non-varium community

i dont see how the non varium community can say anything about juggernaut if they cant play it.
all they have to do is be patient and they will try 2 vs 1 soon.
in aqw when a new chaos lord comes out, the members get a chance at him first. the non variums go fight him a week later. and its completely fair in my eyes. we paid for the privileges, if ur a free playing member than all u have to do is be patient.



Sageofpeace -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:38:47)

@Wiseman and cindy

i understand the fact that it can't be balance that easy just as 2vs2 still is. Is hard to balance a game with three classes that can become over power with the minimum error but the fact that when the DN's from last with didn't mention anything about been credits after hours it just frustrating and again for me the problem is not money not that is given to me free since i work for it. If i like something i pay for it just like i did after i level up to 31 in early beta the game had some issue but i still like but if i had found the game in the state that is now i would probably haven't buy varuim.

P.S

Im very aware that you two and many other are working hard sending the dev's suggestion and what the problem is but is they just going to keep doing this they should fully detail their intension from the star so player don't go wild on them.Also i recall nightwraith actually posting the following words with this new Phase by phase i mean GAMMA we are going to fully post DN'S before the release with FULL DETAILS.



TankMage -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:43:25)

I'm not to sure why people are getting so angry about this, but heres my personal opinion about it.

I personally love this Battle mode so far, It is awesome and I prefer it much more then 2v2. I'm glad they released it to only a small part of the community by making it varium for the "Testing phase" because we've all seen how many bugs have been coming through in the past few days. As for non-variums needing to wait 1 week for this Battle mode, I think thats more then fair you guys will get the near Bug Free version of Juggernaut battles and dont have to pay a cent of real life money. And for people saying "we paid $10 for an achievement!?!?!?" No you payed for much more then that, Just have a look below at the list of things we get.

quote:

10$
- Early testing of a new battle mode.
- Achievement.
- Rarity Score.
- Head start on record.
- Possible second achievement.

Quoted from Wiseman


Just some things to think about:
~It was your choice to pay the 1200 varium, Did anyone force you? No.
~Do we get an extra reward for buying it? Yes.
~Did the Developers promise anything more then an Achievement? No.
~These achievements below all cost more then 1,200 varium

-Landlord
-Warlord
-Class Master



Polandor -> RE: =ED= New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:46:50)

I agree with Nexus and Buffy post 1000%.

Juggernaut mode change 2-2 mode, it not a true new 3rd mode.

For me (lv 33 full varium) it does not hurt me (since i did not bought the card) and if I hit 2-2 battle I will be in a 2-2.

But for all the lower player who hit 2-2 and wish a 2-2, some will end up in a instant lose vs a lv 33 juggernaut.
That is weakening the 2-2 mode, and many times at low level your only hope to win is in 2-2, since you fight so many high level in 1-1.

If I was in this bad level range 22-26 and now 23-28, you will lose most of the time, just by the match up.
I would surely stop playing if in their shoes.

Now I also hate equally the free wins juggernaut mode give and will keep giving, two level 23-28, I would never lose, it not a challenge it boring...
100% winning is has boring has 100% losing...



Wiseman -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:50:02)

@ Buffy:I'm not "Upset When Players Say The Game Is Purely MONEY DRIVEN And Voice Their (CUSTOMER) Complaints!", the fact is not everyone feels the way that you do, and besides it was an option to purchase the card, and it was said beforehand that the feature would go credit later. If the game was purely money driven it would have a monthly fee that must be paid (pay to play). Also I do care about non varium players, I have suggested many times that non variums get better non rare equipment, and I also try to get features like class change to have a credit option so non varium players can enjoy it, although not as often.

What I do have a problem with is players calling the game a scam and flaming the developers, and that is a direct violation of the ToS and will result in warns and bans if it doesn't stop now.

@ Nexus...: Let me make it clear the majority of the players that paid for the release where satisfied, the ones that didn't pay weren't able to try it yet, and as such cannot rightfully judge it.

@ Shadronica: I only said players that truly hate the game should leave, if they no longer enjoy the game and see no reason to play it, then I think it would be against their rights as people to try to make them stay and play a game they obviously hate.

The game developers quite frankly do not have time to post often, they spend every minute of every hour while they are at work making the features, posting on the forum is something they do when they have spare time. They prefer to use twitter to stay in touch with their player base, because that's all they have time for.

I disagree with what you said about the old ED Forum, if it was the old EDF many of the players that called the game a scam, or said the developers are con artist would have been banned already.


Thanks for reading.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:52:01)

well I still respect Titan, Nightwraith, Charfade etc for all the hardwork they do, whether I'm happy with it or not.

Wiseman on the other hand...........



RKC -> RE: =ED= New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:52:29)

Wew!!! its only an achievement for a second I thought it was a weapon.



endtime -> RE: New DN's - Juggernaut 2.0! (5/17/2011 19:53:04)

@goldslayer

quote:

achievement is ok because it helps ur rating points, and higher rating points helps ur overall reputation.


Not really. When you are in a battle do you look at people's rating points and say, "ooh he has X amount of reputation", or do you look at their win record and build making ability. Anybody intelligent can lucidly realize these achievements are overpriced, $10+ childish stickers that do nothing to enhance the game. Possibly, when there were only a few achievements, such as daily 1v1 and 2v2, then these were actually impressive. But now there are hundreds of random achievements; nobody intelligent cares if you have the master of disguise, i.e. blowing off $20 to get a virtual, valueless sticker.

Obviously, an achievement, which is essentially a worthless thumbnail that does not enhance the game, is definitely terrible compensation for the $10 cost of the juggernaut. Many people seem to agree on this fact.

Better compensation would be:

1. Near full refund (i.e. around 1000 varium)

2. Equipment; possibly, a Juggernaut sidearm



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