Bans and Chatlocks (Full Version)

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DeathSpawn -> Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:15:11)

Does anyone feel that a players Ban or Chatlock should be made public knowledge maybe by posting a thread some place?

Also if not then is it right for a forum moderator to run around telling people someone elses business? If it's not ok should they be held accountable before they delete all the posts regarding the topic?

Also if it is should the players know by a nice reply to this post that EpicDuel has no policy regarding this and that they are allowed to run around telling others business all they want?

If it's all good then maybe someone could team up with a mod or something and make a thread so we can know what's happened to a lot of the players. I'm very curious as some people, I'm pretty positive that were dummying, suddenly vanished...

I also believe this could prove advantageous to ED by showing them what SPECIFICALLY is wrong to do and the punishment that comes with it. My Master Sergeant felt this way and therefore started posting everyones Article 15's on a board for all to view to show that people were not getting away with bad behavior.

This does have a drawback though as feelings do get hurt and they may not return to the game as they would always be seen as a cheater. Which in turn would make it wrong for a Moderator acting on their own telling others business wrong then would it not?

What's your opinions on the subject?

Noone was accused of anything and hopefully no Mods are too offended by this post and can take a little constructive criticism should it occur....



Mr. Black OP -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:17:12)

master sergeant... ur in the military?
i think they should show a report of pass offenses so u could decide if u want them in ur list, fac, or if ur going to mute him



beastmo -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:19:13)

Yea i need this because im permantly chatlocked now -_-



Soda Pop -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:21:57)

People shouldn't cuss at people in any case. That's proper etiquette.



Ashari -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:25:53)

The old EpicDuel forum had a public system with the Report Cheating section, but that didn't go over too well. What ended up happening was everyone leaping to defend their friends and attack those that reported their friends for rule breaking. It basically turned into one giant flame war as everyone took sides on every report. That's why the reporting system is private through The Lawman now. I don't think we'll ever see a return of public accusations on these forums.

As for account issues, these are deleted from the forums here because there is nothing the forum staff (even those that are in-game moderators) can do about bans, hacked accounts or mutes. Any account problems must go through the Help Pages where the player support department can solve all these issues. Complaining about a ban or chat lock on the forum doesn't do anything since no one here can help you.



Verlyrus -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:26:23)

Bans, warnings, mutes, etc are kept private so as to respect the privacy of players.

Moderators are allowed to tell others to abide by the rules as that is their purpose.



DeathSpawn -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:38:57)

Ok Verlyrus but Ashari was way off topic there lol I didn't mean a thread for anyone accusing peeps of stuff, I meant those that have been found guilty then showing what there offense and punishment is.

Also then Verlyrus is it wrong then for a mod to tell a player who isn't a mod what happened to another player?

@Zman, Was in the army 4 years flying drones, just got out and preping for college next month.



MrBones -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/6/2011 23:50:48)

OK.
So can you guys now explain how it works?

Do you get a chat lock with a certain amount of reports in a 24 hour period ?
Does it reset after 24 hours?
Is the chat lock automatic or done manually ?
Do you send an email notifing the player about the mesure taken, the lenght of the punishment and a clear reason ?
Do you need other proof than reports (like screeny) before taking extreme mesures against a player ?
How many chat locks does it take to be permanetly mute ?
How long is a first offense mute ?

As paying customers, I think those questions should be anwsered clearly.



Dax -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 0:06:49)

1) As Verlyrus noted bans, warnings, mutes etc are kept private so as to respect the privacy of the players.

2) Although it isn't formally in writing. Moderators should not, and do not discuss disciplinary measures of players with any non-NDAed staff member.

3) Although there are formal guidelines for responses for specific offenses, I'm unsure about whether that should be disclosed for several reasons.
a) Players would rationalize breaking rules by saying "o first offense discipline really isn't that bad. I'll break this rule until I get caught the first time."
b) Discipline depends on the severity of the offense. Obviously there are different degrees of swearing/harassment etc. Deciding where exactly it falls is at the discretion of the individual moderator. It is inefficient and unproductive to argue about whether or not an offense was moderate or severe swearing.
c) Obviously there are a plethora of different examples of rule breaking. Having a public list of disciplinary measures would encourage players to find loop-holes and exploit them.

It's really pretty simple. Follow the terms and conditions and you won't need to worry about the disciplinary measures for an individual offense.




DeathSpawn -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 0:14:48)

^Knew that would be the answer was just waiting for it lol

Basically makes me curious as to how "A Player" knew why you were chatlocked and you didn't beastmo hmmm interesting huh? BTW it's permanent???? So basically you really can't even play the game anymore???




Wraith -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 10:17:47)

^He just can't say anything at all.



MrBones -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 11:03:26)

quote:

Obviously there are different degrees of swearing/harassment etc. Deciding where exactly it falls is at the discretion of the individual moderator. It is inefficient and unproductive to argue about whether or not an offense was moderate or severe swearing


Wow. Did you read your message before posting ? You are saying there is different degrees but inefficient to argue about it ? I'm sure glad that here in america our laws are not governed byt the ED staff. People stop at stops signs even if it is a small fine to pay.

It is absolutly innaceptable to leave ban the rules in a gray zone were personal conflicts, different point of view and so on, to be left in the hands of one mods.

Like in real life (were it's not perfect but working fairly ok) the laws system provide clear guidelines. A little browser game is surely not above those laws.



beastmo -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 11:16:33)

Ive already sorted it out with cindy there.was 9 reports of my behavior hopefully she reconsiders in a week and i get un unlocked for my last chance...



Cinderella -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 11:56:12)

The problem with letting everybody know the disciplinary log of each player is not only a privacy issue, but a security issue. A lot of people have bans for compromised accounts, so scammers would know right away who the easy targets are.



Fay Beeee -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 18:05:05)

In Beastmo's defence. He has always been polite and respectful to me.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 18:07:16)

IMO yes they should be made public if a player is chatlocked or banned or if they had any history of being banned.
why?
well if ur recruiting mems and u dont know that a person u recruited was a former dummier it can get ur fac in trouble
and have ED hating u.
what should be made public is their history. but not who banned them that way u dont have people flaming the ones who reported them.

quote:

The old EpicDuel forum had a public system with the Report Cheating section, but that didn't go over too well. What ended up happening was everyone leaping to defend their friends and attack those that reported their friends for rule breaking. It basically turned into one giant flame war as everyone took sides on every report. That's why the reporting system is private through The Lawman now. I don't think we'll ever see a return of public accusations on these forums.

well altho that can be an issue if u show the reporters name
it can be easily solved like i posted above.
simply make a history of player bans or chatlocks history in their char pages but dont write down who reported them.
this way people have public knowledge of what they done in the past. (like scamming, hacking, dummying, etc.)
this would actually help the community more to stop scammers and hackers and to let other leaders be aware if that person dummied in the past or not this way he can decide if he lets him join or not.



Theclown -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 19:13:24)

yes to u fay bee not to others this world has many peoples :P



xxmirxx -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 19:13:37)

Did you guys know if you hack or scam you get second chance. I remember I gave cindy heck on old ED forums. Because this person was repeat offender. But we should get warnings so people add them to there faction know not to add them. But if you ask me I staff don't care unless it happens to them.



ND Mallet -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 19:17:45)

@Gold First off, that is both humiliating and embarrassing to have your history shown to anyone who looks at your character page. And if you got all those bans and chatlocks while you were hacked then it would ruin your reputation beyond repair. "I was hacked when those happened" wouldn't get everyone to believe you. Your friends would, but not everyone. It also puts you on very thin ice against some people. If they don't like you they could just look at your character page, see the history, aggravate you and get you to do some rule breaking, then report you. It also can get you falsely reported as well for hacking when it could just be lag. If you have a history of hacking on your record then any bug in your favor or too much luck against a player could get you banned. Several people already report for blocks by their opponent.

Second off, a whole faction won't be punished if one or two players are dummying. Those players will be dealt with and the rest of the faction will be left. And people can change. You won't get in trouble for having a former dummier in your faction. And only he will get punished if he starts dummying again. If you're thinking of what happened to Three Stars and A Sun then don't forget a lot of players were dummying including the founder. They wouldn't have been so bad off except that some of the members sent death threats to the Admins for banning them, which caused longer bans and the disbanding of the entire faction.

Also, it will only stop some players from getting scammed since few even look at character page when they're talking to the scammer. Even if you had a mod following you around everywhere, someone somewhere could still get their account scammed. You can't make any fixes to that besides punishing the caught scammers.



rej -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 19:24:27)

yes, i think there should be topics made about it. that way i can know wich of my friends/fac mebers are muted, or just ignoring me [8D]



Rooster -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/7/2011 19:25:19)

The old way was better. At least you could state your case in the forums. Right now there's no transparency whatsoever and no one knows what happens why. The arguments that it protects your privacy are ridiculous. No player is here with their real name or identity. If that was disclosed, you'd have a problem with privacy. The way it is you're just in trouble with your game character. So what? If you act like a jerk in game, well...people should know that. If you have a good defense, well...you should have a forum to post it in. Right now it's just a big blur. No good. No transparency. No nothing. Fail.



Dax -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/8/2011 0:44:01)

quote:

Wow. Did you read your message before posting ? You are saying there is different degrees but inefficient to argue about it ? I'm sure glad that here in america our laws are not governed byt the ED staff. People stop at stops signs even if it is a small fine to pay.

It is absolutly innaceptable to leave ban the rules in a gray zone were personal conflicts, different point of view and so on, to be left in the hands of one mods.

Like in real life (were it's not perfect but working fairly ok) the laws system provide clear guidelines. A little browser game is surely not above those laws.


I'm not quite sure what you find so shocking. There are only a handful of moderators and it is impractical for more then 1 moderator to handle every report. The AE Help Team is in place for players to appeal the disciplines put in place by the moderators. The gray area I mentioned is mostly with regards to whether to give a 24 hour chat lock or a warning for swearing and minor offenses. Major offenses such as dummying and scamming have concrete 1st offense, 2nd offense guidelines in place.

Your analogy to the real world law system would be sound if all the game players were 18+ years old. It is clearly quite the opposite.

I have deleted several posts for off-topic spam bordering on trolling. Please stay on topic or this thread will be closed.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/8/2011 0:54:53)

quote:

@Gold First off, that is both humiliating and embarrassing to have your history shown to anyone who looks at your character page. And if you got all those bans and chatlocks while you were hacked then it would ruin your reputation beyond repair. "I was hacked when those happened" wouldn't get everyone to believe you. Your friends would, but not everyone. It also puts you on very thin ice against some people. If they don't like you they could just look at your character page, see the history, aggravate you and get you to do some rule breaking, then report you. It also can get you falsely reported as well for hacking when it could just be lag. If you have a history of hacking on your record then any bug in your favor or too much luck against a player could get you banned. Several people already report for blocks by their opponent.

Second off, a whole faction won't be punished if one or two players are dummying. Those players will be dealt with and the rest of the faction will be left. And people can change. You won't get in trouble for having a former dummier in your faction. And only he will get punished if he starts dummying again. If you're thinking of what happened to Three Stars and A Sun then don't forget a lot of players were dummying including the founder. They wouldn't have been so bad off except that some of the members sent death threats to the Admins for banning them, which caused longer bans and the disbanding of the entire faction.

Also, it will only stop some players from getting scammed since few even look at character page when they're talking to the scammer. Even if you had a mod following you around everywhere, someone somewhere could still get their account scammed. You can't make any fixes to that besides punishing the caught scammers.


well obviously if the player was banned anything that was done during the time he was banned woulnd't be valid and would be removed.
as for reporting for hacks. idk i mean if there is a game. there is hacks for it. unless u get a REALLY good server/code
and if its too humiliating then too bad. thats what they have to deal with for doing what they did.
u think a scammer shouldn't be exposed and sugar coated?
u think a dummier shouldn't be exposed?
also about the fac thing. 1 dummier is enough for ED to start making rumors of that fac and then have them affecting ur faction.
for example when u ask another player to join. people can sometimes be like "nty i dont wanna join a dummying faction" and stuff like that. so if the leader is aware of the player's banship chatlocks status then he can decide if he should let that person join.
and if he changed or not it doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.
in real life if u killed a person does ur record get erased because u changed? of course not.
in real life if ur a sec offender, does ur record change? of course not. and in fact they put out a warning to local people that ur a sex offender if ur living in their neighborhood this way people know who to stay away from.



MrBones -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/8/2011 6:11:48)

quote:

Your analogy to the real world law system would be sound if all the game players were 18+ years old. It is clearly quite the opposite.


Of course my analogy is sound. How could it not be be. Are minors above the laws in america ?

I 'm not surprise at your lack of arguments because the bottum line is the ED rules are not clearly writen and are therefore undefendable. I can't blame you from trying to defend ED (as they are the one giving you the mod status you love so much) but threatening people to luck the thread is ridiculous. Your fighting a fight you know you can't win and I won't be bullied to stop talking about it as I am making my point with respect.

Dax can't be touch..........Is a moto like that really appropriate for a mod ??



Cinderella -> RE: Bans and Chatlocks (7/8/2011 13:00:37)

Quite frankly, it was a disaster when AQW started announcing all of the bans, and given that most bans and chat locks in EpicDuel are temporary, it would only serve to have people get a few bans or chat locks just to become famous.

The rules are laid out, and most are self-explanatory. Don't exploit the system (eg hacking or dummying), don't scam other people, don't follow/harrass other people, don't swear at them. Basically be cool to one another, ok?



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