Why Nerf Anything??? (Full Version)

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DeathSpawn -> Why Nerf Anything??? (7/6/2011 23:59:35)

How about instead of nerfing everything that wasn't thoroughly tested, just buff everything else :D

Leave Tac Merc the way it is since everyones crying about it ..... oh wait if everything else is buffed putting us on par with them then they would still cry my bad :D

Lets face it Blood Mage is complete garbage and I don't care if you think your the greatest player in the world at this game your still gonna be garbage with it.

Tech Mage is way overdue for an upgrade I mean seriously how many nerf updates have messed that one up? Anyone know any good players running it? Didn't think so.

BH pretty much good the way it is.

Mercenary is nothing anymore compared to Tac Merc. Any build you could possibly think of making would be way better off as a Tac just accept it and don't even bother arguing that lol.

Cyber Hunter....Man I don't know where to even start it's just so random....Although if they made static charge or whatever it's called passive somehow it would definitely be a contender.

I truly believe nerfing isn't the answer and also by buffing, which is definately needed, you'll find the players will still cry because someone beat them lmao BUT most will be more satisfied with the creativity it brings and challenges it presents :)

PS I really don't care how you think of me, as I'm sure peeps understand by now, but in the end I'm sure I've class changed more than 99% of the population and ran every build imaginable so this isn't coming from some upstart kid in Saudi Arabia who started playing yesterday. I love all the classes I just enjoy playing my Techy the most as it's more consistent based on what the majority is playing.



Branan -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:02:43)

Because it's usually less work to nerf a few overpowered options then to buff everything else?



Soda Pop -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:06:53)

Everything is fine except for tactical mercenary. Mercenary needs the 10% def ignore on artillery strike back, though.



DeathSpawn -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:11:00)

@Brenon, How long have we been playing this now with nothing but nerfs???? Nerfing and drugs are never the answer :D Lets buff instead since nerfing has never worked in the past maybe???

Also if they Nerf Tac Merc is that going to make a Blood Mage, Cyber Hunter, or Tech Mage any better? Will that not just continue more on the overpowered 1v1 BH class??? I'm pretty sure most the complaints on here from what I can tell are coming from classes that just need a buff. If balance is the goal then why not?

Nerfing Tac merc doesn't make the game more balanced or bring any new creativity to this simple game.



BlueKatz -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:15:37)

I think a mega buff would be great. Not to mention some skill are 100% garbage even in the strongest class set.

I mean it's not hard to buff everything and nerf fatal gambling no skill thing like BH right?



Ashari -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:17:16)

As Branan said, it's much easier to look at a class like Tactical Merc and see what's wrong with it and correct the few things that are making it over than to go through every single class and try to buff them to be on the same level as Tactical Merc.

Making that many changes is likely to just cause another class to be overpowered, and then we have to go through the whole cycle of buffing again to try and correct the issue. Balance isn't easy, and the best way to do it, at least in my opinion is in small increments, because it's very hard to predict how skills and stats will come together if you start changing everything around.

Nerfs allow balance to be done in small increments, for example removing the 10% defense ignore on Artillery Strike just to name a recent smallone. This helped reduce the power of Support Mercs and Tactical Mercs in 2v2 without destroying either class.



sleddyboy3 -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:17:50)

DeathSpawn, if you think that Blood Mage is garbage, then you've never played anyone good..I just got pretty much screwed over by a Blood Mage, and I have a pretty decent build. TBH, I think that you're just afraid that you won't be "good" anymore once Tactical Merc is nerfed.



Branan -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:19:18)

Technically I've had my account for awhile, but I only play once and awhile. All I know is that from what you're talking about is that a majority of classes seem to be at a bottom level while one class far out paces everything else. The majority of classes are at the very bottom so the smallest amount of change would be to simply move all the classes down to the very bottom. The reason for this is that people tend not to like too much change, and it's less work to change things. However from what I've heard it seems like the blood mage is at an even lower level changing the game to four tiers. If that's the case then the choice would be between the 3rd or 2nd tier. Quite frankly when it comes to the current condition of the game I do believe you surpass me. Is there a page I could read on the classes that I could read to be more up to speed?



Angels Holocaust -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:21:39)

Just take a look at what happened to the Tech Mage class? It was nerfed to the lowest depths of hell. I for one would actually like to see a buff, Epic Duel has never EVER EVER EVER EVER buffed a class in it's history and I would love to see what happens. This game has always been nerfing skills and killing classes. Take a look at super charge, it sucks so badly that it can't even be used. As for blood mage, that class is a joke of biblical proportions, the deadly aim requirement is just ridiculous, who the hell uses support in strength builds anyway? Truth is no one, it just contradicts each other.



DeathSpawn -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:27:52)

Right and weren't strength builds an issue before and then you guys nerfed stats first then skills with the release of sidearm and aux enhancements making it's counters less effective which in turn also then made focus builds extremely difficult for any class other than bounties who have basically always been top dogs.

All these so called nerfs are doing is creating these garbage bot builds its super lame for everyone to have the same builds and is going to ultimately end the game when every game you come across the same friggin build. Who in the world wants to be a tech mage, blood mage, or cyber hunter these days? Actually you know what, the issue is Hybrid armor in the end. Get rid of that trash and make these str builds and bot builds capable of taking damage other than from crits and rage.

Oh wait that won't work because look at the TM, BM, and CH....no balance at all. It's time to start buffing some classes.

Nerfing poses the same problems Ashari stated about buffing. A nerf ALWAYS ends up nerfing more than just one simple thing they had in mind that's just the way it is. Same could be said about buffing in the end though to.

The answer is pretty clear in my opinion. More Class specific items. Why is the Primary the only class specific item? Would it not make it easier to control the overpowered builds????



xxmirxx -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:38:55)

quote:

Just take a look at what happened to the Tech Mage class? It was nerfed to the lowest depths of hell. I for one would actually like to see a buff, Epic Duel has never EVER EVER EVER EVER buffed a class in it's history and I would love to see what happens. This game has always been nerfing skills and killing classes. Take a look at super charge, it sucks so badly that it can't even be used. As for blood mage, that class is a joke of biblical proportions, the deadly aim requirement is just ridiculous, who the hell uses support in strength builds anyway? Truth is no one, it just contradicts each other
they even nerf super charge.



rej -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 0:48:04)

this idea has allready been suggested several times. but this MIGHT be the first time anyone has posted a topic about it since the release.

i knew one good player that was still using tech mage: me. unfortuneatly, the release of tlm was just too discouraging for me. it was either switch or quit.



Ashari -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 1:09:49)

Just to clarify, I didn't mean that classes should never be buffed. I just think the best way to balance is to address the problem directly, whether its a buff or a nerf that's needed. If a class or build is too powerful, then it should be addressed with a nerf. If another class is too weak, then a buff is the best course of action.

The point I'm trying to make is that in order to properly balance, both options must be open so that the simplest and most direct change can be done. We've all seen what happens when entirely new mechanics, like agility and focus, are set up in order to try and weaken a specific build. All that does is create an opening that another class can exploit.

All of the new classes are getting looked at. What balance changes will be done haven't been decided yet, so I can't say what will happen, but some of the ideas floating around are buffs. They aren't all nerfs. ;)



Soda Pop -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 1:12:40)

I can kill level 33's in full varium with my level 30 blood mage build. If you say blood mage is garbage, it's only reflecting your intelligence. And even if, you can spaghetti someone's build.



BlueKatz -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 1:14:27)

BM is ok, I can't see why people don't use STR on it and say it's weak. The only problem is the freaking block. If BM need anything, it's Reflex Boost



comicalbike -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 1:16:48)

why bother to nerf at all as we lose lots goes with the lag i played 30 games yesterday and lost 4 goes so dont nerf it is ok as it is



Ty Lee -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 4:47:25)

I have just 1 thing to say: Tactical Mercenary, passive health regen, passive mana regen, passive defence ...WTF??? is wrong with this picture.



RKC -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 4:49:07)

Here we go again.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/7/2011 9:27:31)

I agree.
@Ty Lee Ugh TLM does not have any passive health regen. But we do have passive mana regen and passive defence. But the mana regen is not that great because if you do not take much dmg it will not work that good.



5rr5 -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/10/2011 15:32:58)

We know that TAc merc is OPed so stop discussing it, it won't help!



king julian -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/10/2011 18:34:15)

well if they buff a most of the classes they must also buff the npcs and so on it will just be a distration for the dev's i guess.



The UnleaShedWolfZ -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/10/2011 20:56:44)

I Agree Spawn.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/10/2011 20:59:50)

why nerf anything simple answer it created a cycle of class change which mean they keep their business



endtime -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/10/2011 21:09:25)

Since this game is relative, buffing and nerfing will achieve the same results. The only difference is that nerfiing usually requires only one or two changes, while buffing requires many more changes. If TLM and BH are left the same, and the other four classes are buffed, then at 1-2 changes per class that's already 4-8 changes. But don't forget about all the NPCs that can be challenged. If all the classes are buffed, then these must be buffed too. Since there are 34 NPCs that can be challenged, that's numerous more necessary changes. Why do all of this? Nerfing will be exactly the same.



yellaboyung -> RE: Why Nerf Anything??? (7/11/2011 3:29:54)

I say No nerfs at all should be created. Just reduce the requirement on Deadly Aim as Angels Holocaust basically said. Buff up BM and TM with something that'll help them out. Or even make their weapons just a little bit stronger (Staffs). As far as i can see, most of the mages try to use support builds with barely enough support to even call it that (+45 and below). Face it, Mages need better weapons. Instead of all these weapons i've seen giving +24 tech or +10 strength. Too many of those. Im not even a mage but no offense, they are just getting weaker :/.



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