RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (Full Version)

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kittycat -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 1:42:28)

Maybe we should ask the developers to close the power gap between paid players and free players.



edwardvulture -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 1:48:42)

^That sounds sarcastic. Well the thing was in beta, enhancements didn't exist.



edwardvulture -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 1:52:05)

@t600 Armor enhancements could be removed if they just buffed founders to 8 res and 16 stats.



Nexus... -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 2:34:38)

Here is the million dollar question:

What have enhancements done for the game? If everyone fully enhances their weapon, we are exactly where we began, only with a greater gap between var/non-var. I remember a few weeks after the "Enhancement" release, the enhance cap was raised by two on every single weapon. What did this do for the game? The obvious answer is it cost us more Varium, which in turn made more money. Enhancements exist for the sole purpose of taking our Varium, and the developers refuse to reprice/redo enhancements any further then they already have because that would mean a greater loss in profit.

Quite sad.

EpicE4



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 2:40:01)

Enhancements shouldn't have been implemented. But now that they have, they can't be removed. How are the thousands of varium (and non-varium) players who invested great amounts of varium and/or credits going to be compensated?



Remorse -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 3:01:39)

^ easy!!, How about a 100% enhacements sell back if this feature were to be removed instead of it being totally removed have it still there eexcept it dosnt do anything so players can get a 100% sellback. Or if it were just removed from gun's and aux's , just a 100% sell back of enhacements on guns an auxs.

Man that was easy. Give me a tuffer one?



T.600 -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 3:05:12)

I'd like to quote myself from a previous thread here:

quote:

Implementing enhancements into Epicduel was actually a good idea at first. Everyone was looking forward to it because it allowed us to add that extra bit of customisablity to our builds and we weren't restricted by the default stats of our weapons. I always wished I could have a few extra stat modifiers in dexterity and support, and most of the community expected the enhancement system to be like AQW's (scale by level). It turned out differently but it wasn't a total disaster at first. You could only enhance your primary, so the cost wasn't too bad. If they'd just added a credit option and left it as it was, then the enhancement system would have been fine. It was only when they started with armor enhancements, and then auxillary and gun enhancements that things just got too expensive and unaffordable.

Should enhancements be removed? No, they shouldn't because they allow us to customise our stats in builds and they do give ur more stat modifiers. I know that they aren't keen on refunds, but they should remove gun and auxillary enhancements, then give us a refund for it. I'm not saying this because I want it, I'm saying it because it would please the community. Armor enhancements should stay because they were made just so founder armor could have a unique 10 enhancement slots. They could try this, and if things are still too expensive then they can reduce the varium cost for enhancements.

Enhancements don't really have an effect on the creativity of builds; agility, focus, stat requirements, stat diminishing and all the other various nerfs were what took away the 'creativity'. It all depends how you define creative; some may think that spamming one stat isn't creative, spamming health may not be creative and having high health maynot be considered creative. True, there may be some balance issues right now in Epicduel that the devs are trying to take care of, but creative is a very broad term. Since it is a broad term, it's very hard to bring true 'creativity' into this game.

Seeing this, I have to disagree with your initial statement although a few atlerations to the enhancement system would be appreciated.



Remorse -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 3:22:49)

Im, Not 100% sure here, but I know for a fact that something has changed to beta, And i know this is hard to understand and it's just as hard explaining but I'm about 90% sure it was mainly to do with enhacements. If i look at the non cost aspect of enhacements, They may seem harmless, (apart from the cost) but i belive It is what has caused builds to become soo unbalanced, Why? well i belive the main diffrence between now and beta is builds are soo much more powerful now, and although this is obvious the negative aspects of powerful builds is not.
Powerful builds leads to,
-Luck having a greater impact which has been shown,
-Many unfair cheap builds to be created, Yes the two hit str merc. and the other really high str builds.
-Strategy is now alot more difficult, This one is obvious as power has tacken the place of strategy in many cases. And is it just me or using the same strategies you used before not working??
- And many more small things, such as crits becoming to powerful.

Although you could argue , lots of those things are the same as it was in beta, Well I will bet that if you removed enhacements for maybe just one week or even 3 days, You will find this game less frustrating more strategic and a major decrase in cheap builds which can be mistaken for "overpowered".



Remorse -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 3:27:25)

My reasoning as to what other impacts enhacements have had apart from cost:
quote:

Im, Not 100% sure here, but I know for a fact that something has changed to beta, And i know this is hard to understand and it's just as hard explaining but I'm about 90% sure it was mainly to do with enhacements. If i look at the non cost aspect of enhacements, They may seem harmless, (apart from the cost) but i belive It is what has caused builds to become soo unbalanced, Why? well i belive the main diffrence between now and beta is builds are soo much more powerful now, and although this is obvious the negative aspects of powerful builds is not.
Powerful builds leads to,
-Luck having a greater impact which has been shown,
-Many unfair cheap builds to be created, Yes the two hit str merc. and the other really high str builds.
-Strategy is now alot more difficult, This one is obvious as power has tacken the place of strategy in many cases. And is it just me or using the same strategies you used before not working??
- And many more small things, such as crits becoming to powerful.

Although you could argue , lots of those things are the same as it was in beta, Well I will bet that if you removed enhacements for maybe just one week or even 3 days, You will find this game less frustrating more strategic and a major decrase in cheap builds which can be mistaken for "overpowered".



DillBagel -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 3:52:09)

@Drakadh There's always been non varium players that can take the NPCs down, enhancements or not. There's a problem if you rely on them.



DillBagel -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 3:58:11)

Enhancements aren't the problem themselves, it's the method of enhancements. As T600 has already said, they should have been done one a level up base. These means rares (and whatever other weapon you may fancy) would stay at fighting power. (As was the original reason for us requesting enhancements. Everyone originally expected AQW style enhancements, not a monster that drastically favored people with oodles of varium to gain somewhere around 120 stats modifiers as a total.
I also agree with Remorse's post about how enhancements changed the strategy aspect, which they did, and that was exactly the point where lick got out of hand. (and power)
It used to take great sacrifice to have high strength or support (miniscule defenses etc). Now you can use enhancements and have a full blown support build mixed with a 5 focus, now that's just weird.



Arath -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 4:28:55)

I feel the game is a complete mess right from the beginning. - no disrespect here
The formula for stats and all weapons have to be redo.
There is a clear distinction between the other AE games with this.
In adventurequest, there is the spreadsheet for the power level for items like normal and mastercraft items.
I'm surprised that frostbane is actually on par with most lvl 33 varium items and maple cleaver,being a credit item,
is actually almost as powerful as the frostbane.
the number of rares in the game is too much. It is quite wasteful to design them and only last for a short period.
There are not plans for the future for Robots because they are practically toss aside for other weapons to be released.



Banir -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 4:52:37)

Hmm, maybe enhancements shouldn't just go away. Why not make them all free for anyone? A weapon you buy with 6 enhancement slots should give you 6 points to spend where you want without having to pay in addition to the pre-determined stats.
This would help non-variums with overpowered uber Varium users, make the game much more affordable and would improve the quality of the game as a whole.
Then everyone could get a refund on their credits and Varium spent and everyone would be happy[:)]


But knowing the developers of this game that's not gonna happen in a million years.



Sipping Cider -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 4:57:43)

I would like to see weapons instead of having stat modifiers, only have enhancements.


WHAT!!!!!

yup. that way you could get weapons solely for their looks, instead of having to worry about if it gives you good stats or not.


Of course, if this were to happen, getting enhancements would have to be a ton cheaper, especially if weapons would be able to give the same amount of stat modifiers as they do now.
And maybe the first few enhancements could be free.



drinde -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 5:01:26)

@Banir
Totally agree. But they would have to give back Enh Costs, lose money.....



Sipping Cider -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 5:05:11)

I already posted something like this in a similar thread, but here it goes again..........

get rid of all normal stat modifiers from weapons

then add as many enhancement slots to them

what? you may ask

yes, and then make enhancing super cheap. and maybe the first few enhancements would be free. This would allow players to get weapons based off their look rather then just their stat modifiers



DillBagel -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 5:05:34)

@Drinde But are they really losing any money? They're just giving you pack some more pixels used to buy pixels. It's all in the perspective you put it in.



DillBagel -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 5:07:21)

@Sun Then I'd never have to use anything but my Soul Ripper =D



Sipping Cider -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 5:11:06)

@dill bagel: yeah! those look so cool by the way, wished i had one
and i could use crockzooka (except it would need a bonus to its damage still)



DillBagel -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 5:13:00)

I still use my bunnyzooka in partial pride! With Sun's idea it could be full pride. xD



Remorse -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 5:21:15)

^ Well they wouldn't be gaining anymore money.
Having said that the way in which this game gets money off it's players is silly, They simply pile on the costs more and more to the poor old current players when what I think they should be focising is getting more new players to be the purchasers, and belive it or not lowering costs will probelry increase their profits long run....



MrBones -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 7:31:28)

I like ehancements.



King FrostLich -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 7:57:29)

Enhancements be gone??? So what is gonna happen if you have the SAME armor, primary weapon, gun and bazooka? The answer is simple, both of you have the same stat modifiers and even if the build is different, it will just make people ALOT easier to copy your build rather than getting rid of overpowered people.



8x -> RE: Enhancements - Be - Gone (7/14/2011 8:00:41)

I suggested something like this before,
Remove all enhancements on armors, zookas and guns and refund them. Keep 3 enhancement on primary weapons and 5 on rares.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The dev's refusal to press the "undo" button for enhancements (7/14/2011 8:02:18)

@Remorse

Currently, if players should get a 100% sellback for enhancements, they would

a) have to sell their weapon/armour as well
b) get lots of free varium for credit enhancements, as there is apparently no way to tell the varium and credit enhancements apart

Though I suppose that if consequence b) was condoned, consequence a) could be avoided, though that should take a fair amount of programming. I'm not sure if the system could be programmed in that way either...



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