Stat Abusing (Full Version)

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Hun Kingq -> Stat Abusing (7/15/2011 20:30:43)

What happen to stopping the stat abusing? What happen to diminishing returns?

I ran into strength tact mercs after strength tact mercs and if support decides who goes first then why did I got 2nd everytime when I had higher support?

With smoke, reflex booster or debuff did not work. While they gain high energy back because of max reroute the Blood mage gains little to no energy back.

My level 33 Blood Mage lost to a level 31 bounty hunter (with no armor) because I have to put extra points in energy and health lowering my defense and resistance causing max cheapshot get 20 plus damage while my level 2 plasma cannon only got 6 points of damage, again, that was with him having no armor, he only had 9 points of health left, he should have been destroyed.

So with strength abusing tact Mercs having smoke, max hybrid, and max reroute it has created a huge lack of balance than ever before and this just shows the other paying players that the merc class is their favorite class and never trully wanted to improve the blood mage class or the mage class in all. If Ed hates the mage class, the classes that spends the most money, then why keep that class around any longer? Just have hunters and mercs because that appears to be all you want. Get rid of the mage class and a lot of us paying players will cut our losses and leave, you will see your revenue drop.

People wonder why there is os many inactive palyers in the factions now it is because the ones that left and never came back did not abuse the stats and got tired of facing players that abused the stats. When they thought that was dealt with they came back and saw that it was not dealt with so they left again and have not returned. The more you allow stat abusing of all classes especially the most over powered class of all they will never return and you will see less players then ever before less tech mages and a lot less Blood Mages.
It is not fun for all it is fun for some

I want a moderator (or Titan) to answer this: "Did they get rid of dimishing returns to allow stat abusing to happen again?"



motorbreath -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/15/2011 21:31:01)

I agree that strength spamming tact mercs are ridiculous. Combine that with the fact that once you hit 28 75% of your 1v1 battles are against lvl 33 str maxed tact mercs with all varium gear +enhancements. How the H am I supposed to level up if I'm constantly 2-3 shotted?

I'm so tired of starting a battle to see a lvl 33 tact merc with the delta club come smack me with smoke screen. Then I get to attack with 3/4 of my health and no dex only to have my best shot bounce off their armor.

I tried just relogging everytime I faced one and got locked out of the game for running! What? So I seriously have to just sit there and take it? I don't have time for that. Sure, sure...a 28 CAN beat a 33. A really stupid fresh 33. I've considered buying tact merc class, if you can't beat em, join em right? But no...forget that why would I become something I hate?

So why are 33's allowed to be faced up against 28's anyway? Shouldn't max level only face max level? There are definitely enough of them..I literally face a pumped up 33 tact merc 3 out of 4 battles. Why let them pound on 28's struggling to level? That is driving me away FAST.

Why can't they just be in a seperate queue so they can str+poison cheese each other all day and leave the levelers alone?



Drakadh -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/15/2011 21:33:17)

I can get killed by a str merc easily, since They have a Phy Main and Energy SideArm which is Creepy hard to beat O.o


~Drakadh



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/15/2011 22:09:16)

spamming stat is the only way a non varium can survive with the effects of focus changed to just power up robot and further more enhancements makes spamming stat worse so blame the devs for making stat spamming worse. by making more enhancements the devs made stat spamming easier.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/15/2011 23:02:50)

It's still there, but with diminishing returns it's less powerful.

For example, I find strength and support to be ineffective after about 93. It's more helpful to keep a few points in defenses for block or tanking purposes, and I easy beat the "extreme" stat people with a slightly more balanced model.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 7:56:31)

Luna_moonraider, these were not non-varium I faced, they were all varium and because the Blood mage has no real energy return we have to put more points in health and energy to survive and have enough to do reflex boost and berzerker. Level 10 Deadly Aim requires 42 support now and if take a look at the stat requirement of the Tact mercs skills and Cyber Hunter skills not a single skill they have has a stat requirement that high.

It feels like the mage class is being punished while the class that abuses stats and over 80% have become rude and nasty bullies have been rewarded. I ignore what they say because it does not phase me but for the younger players, it is harder for them to ignore.

I had reflex boost on max and with it on, it did not affected the bot punch at all, they got 40 plus damage. All the non Blood Mages wanted the Blood Mage to have another skill that takes up more energy so when we rage we don't have enough to use berzerker. Anyone that plays a Blood mage we did not want another skill to use up more energy and give very little back.

The diminishing returns have been diminished.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 7:59:30)

because of enhancements as mention above the devs killed the stat diminishing returns by making more enhancements so blame the devs dun blame the varium players or non varium players which choose to spam a stat an not play a boring 5 focus build



earth breather -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 8:07:59)

quote:

if support decides who goes first then why did I got 2nd everytime when I had higher support?


Luck also plays a part.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 8:47:25)

@Hun Kingq

just because you cant kill mercs doesnt mean they are oped , maybe you are doing wrong against them , tell us your strategy so we can have more clear opinions about the situation.

Saying Devs hates mages , mercs abuse str , they are oped , is not enough to declare mercs oped.

Now ED has 3 types of builds 1-Str 2-Support 3-5 focus ,2/3 of the builds depend on stat abusing , if we remove stat abuse there will be only 5 focus and kill the build variations.

Also in my opinion 3 turn heal should return for bring back some more build variations.Agility is enough for make heallooping weaker , if mages still continue to be oped than decrease the amount of heal per field medic but dont do it 4 turn.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 10:20:47)

Luck does not play a part when you specify something in programing, for all we know they have it in the code that no matter what mercs go first 90% of the time regardless of support.

TurkishIncubus, if they go first you can't have a stratgy, they smoke you you either debuff or use reflex boost then they attack you again, you have to heal, then they attack you again you heal then they attack you again or you attack and the damage you inflict is not high enough to get any health back from blood lust, or you heal again then they attack you again. So as you can see in the scenerio you maybe get one strike and the rest of the time you heal.

2nd scenerio, they smoke you decide to attack, not debuffing or reflex boost, then your dex is so low you get easily defeated and because they have reroute on max whatever energy they use they get back.

So the 1st scenerio you last longer and still loose 2nd scenerio you fight and still loose when they heal they get 50 plus health back and the reason they could have field medic high is because they get enough energy back from max reroute to heal.

In this thread I was talking about stat abusing one being over powered because I can't beat them which in the past I figured out how and will take longer now but I will figure it out.

They took away malfunction so we can't bring down the tech to affect the gamma bot and bunker buster. They took away reroute so we have very little energy regain. They took away Assimilation because it inflicted too much damage. Blood Lust at max only gives 23% back to health and reflex boost takes up energy only gives back 15% while the other class skills gives back twice as much.

You saying Mages are over powered, "mages still continue to be oped" so the leader boards must be flooded with mages now, I did not see that, did anyone else see the leaderboards over runned with mages.

They make any stat requirements for the mercs skills and weapons so low that they can abuse stats while they make the mage class stat requirements so high that we can't abuse stats and seems like the diminishing returns works more on the mage class then any other class so all this is an indication they hate the mage class and they really don't want the mage to have a fighting chance. Why did they leave us with the 2 skills that are weak and high level mages never use, Plasma rain and super charge and took away Assimilation, maybe blocked but when its not at max I got 40 plus damage?



goldslayer1 -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 10:52:52)

well dude its like the whole BH thing when BH came out everyone jumped to be a BH whenfrostbites were starting to get used more.



TTG Sean -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 10:56:28)

Imo. Stat Abusing Is Fun. No matter Which Stat it is



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 11:03:53)

@Hun Kingq
you use str build right? , you cant use str build with blood mage ,because 1 No debuff 2 No Hybrid armor , also every class with a debuff skill can defeat you , its not just Tac Mercs.

You need to do 5 focus tank build for BM , when you get a debuff lets say smoke , use reflex boost than use technician and robot-robot-aux , heal when needed. That should be the blood mages strategy.

Also i didnt say mages oped now , i said If 3 turn heal return and than if we see mages are oped ...



Hun Kingq -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 12:06:58)

TurkishIncubus, yes it is a 5 focus build and your suggestion will not work because
first you waste a turn to debuff, then next turn you waste a turn to put on reflex boost, then next turn put on technician three turns wasted, three turns you are attacked lowering your health so then another turn to waste by healing then they rage and the amount you heal does not matter. Only reason I know it does not work because I tried it.

So just like the tech mage the Blood mage has to use a 4 focus defensive/resistance build not allowing the Blood Mage to have high stats for strength (which the skills revolve around) and support (lowers the chance of being stunned, deflection,and improves reflex boost).

When I came back last year and started playing again to pass the time I saw and equal amount of players in each class but not anymore.

Pretty soon you will see alot less mages and very little Blood Mages in the game, and there goes the variety because of stat abusing.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 13:55:27)

quote:

Level 10 Deadly Aim requires 42 support nowand Cyber Hunter skills not a single skill they have has a stat requirement that high.

@Hun Kingq: thats right, cyber hunter doesnt have a skill that requires 42 support at max...... like shadow arts for example.

yes, you can now /facepalm




TurkishIncubus -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 14:18:20)

@ hun kingq

I just did a 5 focus BM build in Compendium with 9 lvl rexlex boost which gives 52 dex , so if a TLM smoke(28-32 dex) me when i use reflex boost i will have +20 dex more which means i will have higher def and also much higher blocking chance against a TLM also my technician will give me high amount of tech which improve my res and Robot dmg.

And these buffs will stay for 4 turns also i can heal 42 hp and with deadly aim i can hit normal gun dmg , if you say these uped and cant win str TLM than its your lack of ability.

quote:

Blood mage has to use a 4 focus defensive/resistance build not allowing the Blood Mage to have high stats for strength (which the skills revolve around) and support (lowers the chance of being stunned, deflection,and improves reflex boost).


4 Focus is useless , if you cant win a TLM with 4 focus than its normal , with 5 focus build BM can have higher ratio than a 5 Focus TLM. Just because you cant win doesnt mean the class is oped.



...Sonya... -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 15:21:35)

Stat Abusing Will never be gone completley unless you want to fight 5+ focus everygame.

Stat Abusers Use in 1v1 Mostly STR ? Why because it leads them to very quick wins which will make there faction rep+ or there Rep + for more wins.

In factions your wins matter more then your %,Although in some factions % still very well matters,We find Stat Abusing in STR can lead to 2-4 turns per game and no more.

In 2v2 Its Support,Either a mage or a merc,either one is effective.The community prefers mercenary as I can see.As they have a multi which can lead to a 6-8 turn game.

Stat abusing will always be a part of the game,Dont like us join us.

-Sonya



Hun Kingq -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 16:11:57)

TurkishIncubus, Use Level 9 reflex boost and technician there goes majority of energy and you only get 15% back with reflex boost so anything over a Level 1 field medic you will barely have enough for a heal, then the most powerful move we have is berzerker cannot be used if it cannot be used then why should they keep it in the mages skill tree? That would make three skills now that the Blood mage don't use that takes up space, Plasma Rain, Super Charge, and Berzerker.

Using the bot to get the damage and win the battle shows more the lack of ability and lack of skills then not winning without the bot. If players just want to use bots sidearm and aux, then they need to get rid of the skill tree only have field medic, give everyone the hybrid armor and the gamma bot, getting rid of variety and all the battles will consists of is robot, sidearm, and aux.

According to your character page it states Tact Merc, if you use that more often then how can you say what works and what doesn't for the Blood mage.

Focus only improves the bot damage not weapons or skills, just a reminder.

Level 4 focus is not as useless as you may think and many times I have beaten strength mercs with a 4 focus build. Because the Blood mage has no real energy return we have to have high health and high energy thus limiting the amount of points we can have with each stat, so basically making the blood mage the class with the lowest defense and resistance in the game as well as power.

...Sonya..., I know stat abusing will always be part of the game but if you abuse stats you should get punished with getting lower damage not getting rewarded. Alot of players that stat abusers face is the low level players that have no chance of winning so after losing battle after battle they loose the zeal for the game leave, never come back, and tell their friends don't waste your time with Epic Duel. You know how fast things spread in this day and age.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 16:54:35)

@Hun Kingq

quote:

TurkishIncubus, Use Level 9 reflex boost and technician there goes majority of energy and you only get 15% back with reflex boost so anything over a Level 1 field medic you will barely have enough for a heal, then the most powerful move we have is berzerker cannot be used if it cannot be used then why should they keep it in the mages skill tree? That would make three skills now that the Blood mage don't use that takes up space, Plasma Rain, Super Charge, and Berzerker.


Reflex + Technician take 34 energy , 10 energy remained 15% of reflex boost can easyly give you 7 energy and you can heal. (About the bold part) What are you talking about ??? its like saying i cant use multi shot with 5 Focus BH than BH needs Huge buff :/ , ridiculous.Ofcourse you will not use berserker with 5 focus , you will have less str to make a strong 5 Focus build.

quote:

Using the bot to get the damage and win the battle shows more the lack of ability and lack of skills then not winning without the bot. If players just want to use bots sidearm and aux, then they need to get rid of the skill tree only have field medic, give everyone the hybrid armor and the gamma bot, getting rid of variety and all the battles will consists of is robot, sidearm, and aux.


Im not saying 5 focus build is the most strategic build and require ability , if you ask me i will completly remove the focus to allow creativity in build but 5 Focus is here now and its one of the most important build in game.You should choose your class after decide what kind of build you want , you cant have Creative build + Fast build + Fun build + high rate build + 5 focus build in 1 class , every class can do some of them , and i think BM is best for 5 focus and high rate builds.Maybe BM isnt fit you.

quote:

According to your character page it states Tact Merc, if you use that more often then how can you say what works and what doesn't for the Blood mage.


Just because im Tac Merc now doesnt mean i didnt tried BM and doesnt mean i dont know how skills work , You dont need to be genius to guess how reflex boost and technician work with 5 focus build also im battleing BM everyday so i should have some thoughts about it right?



Hun Kingq -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 19:53:12)

To get 7 points of energy back then you would have to taken on 45 points of damage so if your health is at 110 and they hit you with smoke and damage with that let say on the low end 35 points that leaves you with 75 points of health you put on reflex boost they get 45 points of damage just to get 7 points of energy that leaves you with 30 points of health left so next round you have to heal or loose the match then they attack again basically taking all or half the health you used to heal with.

Level 1 Berzerker takes 27 points of energy so all these things to raise the Blood Mage defense and resistance will take up so much energy they can't use what is called the final kill skill so if that is the case why give it to the Blood mage class if it can't be used. So to use all those skills plus at least a level 1 field medic you would need at least 68 points of energy for thta much you either have to have low health or not have a 5 focus build. You don't need high strength for an effective berzerker one time I got 16, 16, 52 that is 84 points of damage.

When I retrain I have to keep an eye how how much energy each skill takes at each level when and if I want to use them since I don't have reroute and get crap for energy return from reflex boost.

Anyone that reads about each skill will basically know how the skills work and since you battle Blood mages everyday and they do all that what you suggested do notice how fast their energy disappears and very little returns and when reflex boost is not on, no energy return at all. Reflex boost always disappears at the end of the Blood mages turn so that one turn the opponents gets a good amount of damage on him so either the Blood mage activates Reflex boost again or heals wasting a turn then they attack again.

So since my combo armor idea people stated that 13 points for defense and resistance will make the blood mage over powered why is it that Level 1 technician gives 24 tech points and Level 1 Reflex boost gives 26 dex points at 68 total support no one is screeming how over powered the Blood mage is when both are on? With 13 enhancement slots put them all on dex that is only 26 additional points (a Level 1 reflex boost). Non blood mages wanted the Blood mage to have another skill that uses energy that way they would not have enough energy for berzerker or use additional skills becuas ethey wanted us to put more points from stats or from health into energy thus making the Blood mage even weaker.

The programmers did not take a look at what class the players was that was pushing the Reflex Boost on the Blood Mage Class so they thought ok that is a great idea next thing we know Assimilation was taken away and the blood mage was given Reflex boost, which gives very little energy and does not work half the time. I tested max reflex boost against george lowe he got the same or more damage when he did his strikes.

So with all they took away from the blood mage making sure they can't abuse the stats and all what they gave to the mercs making it possible to abuse the stats, it even more created the greatest inbalanced in the game we will ever see.



Baron Dante -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 20:54:04)

quote:

That would make three skills now that the Blood mage don't use that takes up space, Plasma Rain, Super Charge, and Berzerker.


/facepalm

Just because YOU, or the MAJORITY doesn't use/doesn't know how to use effectively something doesn't make it useless.


Seriously, you can't beat a STR abusing TlM? Get a new build that can. :/



classifiedname -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 21:28:38)

stat abusing is fun take my merc for example i can start off a battle with a 64 crit with my aux ^^



Yo son -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 21:32:43)

I love reflex boost, for only two reasons, it cost little energy, it increase Ur chance of blocking, and it last as long as technician.
After blood mages got reflex boost, I can now go head to head with a strength abuser. Sure Strength spamming is bad, but it doesn't really stand a chance against tanks, or tech spamming; because when you really think about it, A tank is like a strength abuser, but this time, the have freakishly high defense; the average +5 focus build, hits + or - 5 the same damage as a strength, but now my bazuka is doing 10 instead of 33.

The game developers, should add a robot, that can remove +30 skill points from any stats that is being spammed. And this effect would be passive for the robot. Or find some other way to discourage spamming. Or the can change how robots become stronger. am speaking of Mercs and TLM especially.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 22:00:02)

this game sk keep getting freaking beat by str noob is so stupid how that hell do they block with no defense

i wanted to know whats the block rate of GAMMA BOT can anyone answer



Hun Kingq -> RE: Stat Abusing (7/16/2011 22:52:01)

Baron Dante, a level 30 tech mage, don't just take one sentence and focus on that for one you have to have 27 points of energy for level 1 Berzerker if you use all those other skills for defense and resistance, you have to have between 64 and 74 points of energy. When I used berzerker on the opponents their last words are, "oh crap!" because they know the match is over. I am one of the most skilled mage fighters that don't need the gamma bot to win battles and when I go against players. I have the energy bot for debuff only not for attacks. Players are requesting to put a high stat requirement on reroute for the tact merc and if they do guess what it will put the same high stat requirement on the tech mage reroute. Become a Blood Mage, use a different armor than founders armor, you will see it is a whole different ball game.

Alot of Mages don't have the Gamma Bot and can't get the Gamma Bot anymore so what is the solution for them?

classifiedname getting 64 crit with aux so if you at 110 then that player knocks you down to 46 health points then in his 2nd turn if don't heal the Artillery Strike strike kills you.

Reflex boost at low levels cost little energy but at max it is 21 points of energy with technician at max add 18 points so 39 points so far Level 1 field medic 17 points that is 56 points for one heal and if you want to use Level 1 berzerker add 27 points that is 83 points of energy. Like i wrote before I used max reflex boost against George lowe to test it out and I did not block once or the damage did not decrease but increased but when I increased my dex and did not use reflex boost I blocked over and over again. reflex boost surely does not limit the damage from sidearms and aux I did not even get lesser damage from the bot punches or blocks.

Sageofpeace, to help defend against the Gamma bot laser you need at least 76 total tech and for Dex you need at least 96 total, myself and a staff discovered that.



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