=ED= Forum Policy Changes (Full Version)

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Lord Barrius -> =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:09:20)

Alright, by now you've noticed that I've taken over as head mod of this board. I wanted to take a moment to explain to you some of the changes we're making in this board, because I have a feeling that a lot of them have been oversold as something much larger than they are.

I want to start by explaining who I am, for the number of you who have never seen me before. I'm Lord Barrius, aka LB, aka Kitten. I first became an AK back in April of 2007, and was hired onto the AdventureQuest team in May as a member of the Knights of Order, AQ's balancers and primary development team. Later, in October, I was promoted from AK to moderator, and assumed head mod duties over Dragonfable Suggestions. I've also sort of slid into a writing position on the AQ team (for those of you who play AQ, I'm responsible for works like "The SeekRat Saga", Nemesis Set's new quest, and "Bun-Rangers", among others). With the recent closing of that board, I have been asked to take over as head moderator for this forum, EDGD.

My primary job as a game staff member has been to ensure that our players in AQ are always being listened to. I care deeply about their thoughts and opinions on various subjects, and it's because of this interaction that AQ remains successful to this day. My primary job as a forum staff member is to ensure that the forum community is open to all sorts of ideas and opinions and types of people, and that no one is being mistreated or discarded for having a different opinion from someone else. As a member of both of these staff groups, I have to constantly reconcile these factors together, and it has helped create my philosophy for how I do things.

Why tell you all this? I feel it's important for you to know where I stand for you to understand why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Let's start with the basics. When I took on this job, there were two key tasks that I knew I would need to perform. The first is to straighten up the forum community in such a way that everyone's opinions can be expressed without anyone being degraded for their point of view, and for everyone to be able to enjoy each other's company. To essentially turn this forum into a better, closer community. The second is to help guide all of the AKs from this community, teach them the ropes so to speak. They are new at this whole thing, just like you guys are. They don't deserve to be yelled at, or mistreated, they deserve respect for giving their very best to try to make this community run efficiently. They're not trying to be mean, they're trying to do their jobs and still fit in. That's not a bad thing, is it?

The second duty, I will be handling in-house. We're going to work to turn this AK team into one that can serve your needs better.

The first duty is a tough one, because it requires a bit of tough love. I've seen a lot of people wondering why we can't just loosen up, but that's just it: ever since the move, we've been gentler on you than on other forums. We've tried the loose leash, it does not work. Some people in here just don't intend to behave. They want to ruin the community for everyone else. So my goal is to make this forum work better and the community cleaner. That may mean that some people will be removed. I don't like to ban people, nor do I like to lock posts or delete them. Honestly, my preference is to sit back in a comfy chair and watch Fox primetime. Since we can't do that, here's how we're going to do things instead.

I have one big rule that transcends all the others: respect. I don't mind if people hate me or dislike me. You may have to take a number these days. But I do expect you to respect each other, and respect my team. If you can't do that, you won't be staying here. Full stop. I do not want this forum to continue to allow people to degrade, demean, and otherwise devalue each other. This is a community of people who all have one interest: you all love ED and you want to see it get better. So let's show that, rather than attacking each other or getting mad at AKs for doing their jobs, let's try to remember that we're all a community, a family of sorts, and let's try to make things work. Surely you don't hate members of your family, no matter how much they may get under your skin, right? :P

Onto the big part: changes.

One change I've implemented is to condense all balance discussions into one place. I did this for two reasons: One, to put it all in one place for the balance team to look at. Two, to make it easier for my team of AKs to take care of those who demean and degrade each other. This has met with a lot of criticisms. Being a balancer myself, I understand that many people are thinking "How can we hold discussions? There will be so many different ones in the same place!". You're welcome to use both PMs and the quote system to hold your discussions. It should help solve the confusion. At present, this policy is not intended to be permanent. It is a temporary measure that will be used for several months to help train our AKs to serve this community even better, and it will allow us time to pick out the good and bad posters. This makes it much easier for us to help clean things up and get the community back to being a community.

A second change I've made is to restrict "whining" threads. According to the rules:
quote:

In addition to refraining from spam, please refrain from creating threads with the sole purpose of complaining about things in the game, such as lag. Well-reasoned discussions will be permitted, as always, but threads that exist purely to complain and whine will not be allowed, as these threads are prime targets for flaming and trolling.
I should note that this does not read "you can never complain about anything". My wording is quite deliberate here. I want to encourage well-thought-out, positive discussions about the sorts of things you are interested in. I don't want to encourage threads full of "rawr I hate this game because they don't allow X!", because those topics lead to comments from two bad types of posters: those who agree and flame the staff for not changing it, and those who disagree and flame those who agree. Neither of those two types of posting are okay, and we want to get rid of that. You're still welcome to discuss a variety of topics, we just expect you to do it in such a way that no one is being insulted. We don't want forum or game staff insulted for their hard work, or players insulted simply for disagreeing with each other. That's not the sort of thing I want to encourage.

A third change I've made, perhaps the most criticized, is to restrict discussions of a "financial" nature. In other words, no Varium vs Non-Varium, Free vs Paying, Varium is too expensive, etc kinds of threads. Again, there are multiple reasons for this. The first is their tendency to dip into immature flaming, which as noted above, we don't want. AE respects all of its players and wishes none of them degraded because of their status. The second reason is because discussions about "how much is this" aren't things the forum staff have any say in. They're something only the devs can deal with, and AE typically does not wish for input in regards to how it prices things. That's not to say you're not allowed to have your say in this. Feel free to contact the ED devs when you feel that pricing is unfair. Cinderella will very likely be willing to hear you out. But coming to the forums to complain about it just leads to more of those in-house flame wars that we don't want, and forum staff really can't help you in this regard anyways.

A lot of you are telling me "LB, we're so angry because we're upset. We're not listened to.". As I've said, my job in AQ has basically been to make sure that my players NEVER say that to me, so you need to realize that I totally understand where you're coming from. With that said, there is a line that we must not cross. When a customer does not like their product, the respectful and adult thing to do is to pursue all possible methods of communicating that issue. The absolute worst thing you can do is start raging, insulting, and slandering. It makes the devs even less inclined to listen. After all, when you're on the job, don't you take constructive criticisms like "you could have done X differently, try this next time" better than when your boss yells at you in front of co-workers about your lousy performance?

The goal here is a better community, NOT a worse one. A community that can express opinions with freedom from persecution, NOT a community in which people stop treating each other with respect and dignity. I know that's not what you're seeing right now. Right now what you see is some strange guy plopped into your forums telling you what to do. But let's just relax a bit. Cool down. This is not the end of the world. It's not the end of the forum, either. It's the start of a new approach to things.

I created this thread not only to explain things to you, but to give you a chance to respond to me. I'm getting some flak for not responding to PMs, but that's mostly because my box is flooding over, not because I'm trying to be malicious. Let's keep this a respectful, responsible, adult discussion about the changes we're making here, so that everyone has a chance to provide their own opinions without anyone feeling wronged or insulted.




frogbones -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:19:47)

It's great you're trying to "clean up" the community.

Just keep in mind that Balance issues are the absolute core of this game. Relegating them to one single thread only serves to minimize their importance.




MirageD -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:23:23)

LB,

i soooo appreciate your post....well done :)....i hope we can all work together to make this forum great :).....but please remain open to the opinions of the players




TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:25:50)

quote:

It will take time to read XD , when i finish i will edit my post dont delete


The part most take my attention is , " we will care everybodies ideas" part , which is not happening currently , the rest of the post is classic MOD talk.

Also i agree with andy's post at below




SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:28:59)

well

LB'S point of focus is keep it clean n respect each other [:)]




Calogero -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:28:57)

quote:

When a customer does not like their product, the respectful and adult thing to do is to pursue all possible methods of communicating that issue


To be honest, even if We put up a thread, we get ignored anyway, which ends up in
flaming

quote:

The absolute worst thing you can do is start raging, insulting, and slandering.


result of not getting straight answers and dissapointment




VIX -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:29:48)

@ Lord Barrius :

Like frogbones Said It's great you're trying to "clean up" the community.

But I still can't understand why the " Congratulations Thread has been Removed " .

can you please tell us why it is ? :P


~Thanks
-VIX




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:31:18)

i responded to this thread in Best foot forward shortly after your reply becuase i thought this would be locked up and not be discussed.

But i will still adress a major issue here part of ED is keeping a balance between F2P's and Varium and not being able to discuss where this balance currently stands leaves it up to our balance team to guess and check when it is out of hand which will lead to unhappy F2P's which causes them to quit or buy into the game and Variums paying to stay equal not ahead of the game. So hopefully you can see that some F2P Varium discussion is needed to help keep that nice line of balance keeping people playing and paying for fun.

From best foot forward
quote:

OK LB i read your wall of text and all and i see your ideas on forcing all balance together to weed out the 10% but in your tighten teh Belts mode you locked possibly the best most mature topic we have ever had in ED GD for reason that it is to close to this type of topic which ends in flaming.

The topic which i am refering to is The Gap yes it is a Non Varium Varium topic in a sence but at the same time once the ball got rolling there was no flaming there was no immature users there just to cause chaos it was both parties coming together trying to solve an issue which has plauged ED for months now. As a member of the AQ balance team you can respect the fact that we were bringing up practical numbers to show the differences and what causes what and how this solution would affect things and like i said as a member of the balance team isnt that something you are looking for in balance suggestions. This kind of thing is something that most likely wont come fourth in your Balance topic becuase players will be adressing many issues and not many will come fourth and sit down to figure out the effects of what is being suggested leaving it all up to our Balance team.

But ill play along and wait it out




sylar67 -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:33:04)

llooll i'm pretty sure this ain't worth wasting time to read :) maybe Scakk will come and lock it up as its a waist of time :)




Thunder Lich -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:33:56)

Hmnnn... After reading through all that, i do think that this forums kind of does need more work. We'll all adjust eventually, and get use to it. Not all of us adjusted from the merge from the old to the new forums, but with a constat administrator/moderator of this forum, we are on the right track, i guess.




Wraith -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:34:01)

^Well said andy.

Barrius, Y U USE KITTENS? I liek kitties D: Wlecome kitty, don't scream if 1) my angry birds explode on you 2) my squirrels nom nom on you 3) my kitties scratch you 4) I go roflmaobbq and set you on fire :DDDDD

Please don't advertise other forums here. Thanks. ~Ashari




IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:39:54)

Ok so if you want to help the community and improve the game then why did you lock The GAP thread? It was not a Non-Varuim vs Varuim war thread or a "varuim cost to much thread". It was simply a discussion on fixing The GAP between var and non-var. The GAP is a real issue that can not be ignored if you want to fix this game. Same for luck threads. Yes some are. "I lost a battle because a lucky noob critted me! Fix it now Titan! [:@][:@][:@]" But mine was not and some others where not aswell. I was simply asking for peoples opinions and ideas and what they have to say about fixng the power of luck. I mean the strenght of criticals and blocks and so on. I dont mean the RNG. It is a random generator of course you cant fix it. Unless you make the % chances lower. Or just nerf the power of crits and blocks and so on. That is all I was saying. It just took about a dozen matches for me to actually relize this once again and repost it.




Master Volcon -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:46:47)

quote:

A lot of you are telling me "LB, we're so angry because we're upset. We're not listened to.". As I've said, my job in AQ has basically been to make sure that my players NEVER say that to me, so you need to realize that I totally understand where you're coming from. With that said, there is a line that we must not cross. When a customer does not like their product, the respectful and adult thing to do is to pursue all possible methods of communicating that issue. The absolute worst thing you can do is start raging, insulting, and slandering. It makes the devs even less inclined to listen. After all, when you're on the job, don't you take constructive criticisms like "you could have done X differently, try this next time" better than when your boss yells at you in front of co-workers about your lousy performance?


I found this ^ part the most interesting, for several reasons. First from the way you worded:

quote:

LB, we're so angry because we're upset. We're not listened to.


The way you say that is almost saying you can blame the devs for not listening to us, which in turn makes us angry. I think that is the approach to the subject matter.

Also The part:

quote:

to make sure that my players NEVER say that to me


From this statement I assume you intend to help all our matters be resolved. So with the changes to the forums I expect a lot of changes with the game, price, fame, balance, lag, etc. All in those category just because that is what we complain the most about In my opinion.




***I am curious to see if this forum change will work, if the reasons behind the change truly are justified then most players should expect change otherwise the entire point of this was to limit our ability to discuss problems.***




Lord Barrius -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:50:06)

To respond to a few posters:


....what Congrats thread? The sticky cleaning actually wasn't done by me. I'm okay with having a congrats thread, I suppose. Though what purpose does it serve that the Acc/Disaccomplishment thread doesn't?

I've already promised to forward "The GAP" thread to the ED developers. I'm not ignoring the issue you've expressed, I think it's important too. I just don't believe it's fair for me to allow it if we're not allowing other var vs nonvar discussions, however. Can you provide me with a reason why it should be allowed?

As I noted, I'm perfectly okay with not being liked. Liking me isn't a requirement to making this board a better community. Following the rules is, though. So don't feel obligated to like me, that's fine. Not everyone likes kitties anyways. There's some people in AQ who feel the same, in fact, you may find that you'll have to take a number. I've got at least a hundred other kids who won't like me very much in about two weeks, they're called "high schoolers". Isn't gonna stop me from teaching them math, or trying to anyways. [;)]

Yes, my full intention is to promote positive posting. If I see things that I think "wow, you really thought this out", I'm likely going to toss it at Cindy (assuming she hasn't seen it already of course, it's not like she's gone forever guys! [:)]). It's only the really nasty posting I'm here to get rid of.




Basicball -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:52:26)

I'm not sure why my ED account has anything to do with my ability to moderate a forum. I've pretty much not played the game at all, but that really doesn't matter. What I expect out of this forum would not change whether I was a Lvl 1 "noob" or the best player in the game. The rude comments, the nastiness to each other....you guys are downright terrible in your treatment of each other, and I will not tolerate it.
Well, the thing is, if you had played the game a decent ammount, you would have a better judgement on posts, and you would see things another way.
and just to add, "you guys are downright terrible in your treatment of each other" is a very wrong observation, i find it terrible that you think everyone treats each other bad because of som stupid flamers ...

If you can't discuss things with each other and with my AKs and I in a calm, reasonable manner, then I highly suggest you relocate. The AEF is a family-oriented forum and will not stand for this sort of flaming, trolling, nasty behavior. Now or ever. That is one rule I'm never going to bend on.
we DID relocate, months ago, and it is a pretty nice forum, true, we have our flaws, but we are working on it, not that i think you'll do this, but if you ever tell anyone to 'relocate', you can direct them to *edited out to avoid advertisng issues*




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:53:45)

LB I'll get back to on that Why it should be allowed question becuase i need to find a way to phrase it so it doesnt backfire on me




Hiddenblade -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:55:35)

LB i hop you can change the forums and stop all the players with hatred




IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 14:57:49)

@Lord Barrius It should be allowed because people are all actuallly pitching in to help balance the game. When was the last time you saw a lot of players all come in to help share their thoughs and suggest on fixing something without any flaming or trolling? I havent seen that in a long time. We where discussing balance. This is not one of those "founders are greedy threads" or "nonvaruims should be grateful threads". Its not one of those Founder(Varuim) vs Non-Founder(Varuim and Non-Varuim) threads. Its for people to share their opinions on the Var and Non-Var gap that is all. Their was literally 0 flaming and trolling in that post. I find it wrong to lock that thread. Especially since it had no flaming(which is so common these days).




Basicball -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 15:00:37)

quote:

....what Congrats thread? The sticky cleaning actually wasn't done by me. I'm okay with having a congrats thread, I suppose. Though what purpose does it serve that the Acc/Disaccomplishment thread doesn't?
There was a congatz topic, like, if someone reaches Warlord rank, people can say 'gratz', it differs from (dis)acc, as there you post it yourself, and in the gratz one, you post to make others feel good, nuff said

I've already promised to forward "The GAP" thread to the ED developers. I'm not ignoring the issue you've expressed, I think it's important too. I just don't believe it's fair for me to allow it if we're not allowing other var vs nonvar discussions, however. Can you provide me with a reason why it should be allowed?
cuzz i was civilized

As I noted, I'm perfectly okay with not being liked. Liking me isn't a requirement to making this board a better community. Following the rules is, though. So don't feel obligated to like me, that's fine. Not everyone likes kitties anyways. There's some people in AQ who feel the same, in fact, you may find that you'll have to take a number. I've got at least a hundred other kids who won't like me very much in about two weeks, they're called "high schoolers". Isn't gonna stop me from teaching them math, or trying to anyways.

Yes, my full intention is to promote positive posting. If I see things that I think "wow, you really thought this out", I'm likely going to toss it at Cindy (assuming she hasn't seen it already of course, it's not like she's gone forever guys! ). It's only the really nasty posting I'm here to get rid of.




Ubear -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 15:01:02)

Congrats LB [:)], but expect worse feedback of ED than what is on AQ lol. Not that ED is a bad game, in my opinion it is better than AQ, but there are so many things that people seem to complain about.

Does this mean you will do less work on The Sweep though? In AQ

One thing I don't like about this though is that we can't express our opinion on everything. The staff doesn't have to listen to everything we say, sometimes it is better to just get our opinion on a certain subject out of our heads and then have it over and done with. Because this wasn't allowed on the AQ forums people put their opinions elsewhere, for example Youtube. You know that incident where people started making videos about the KoO and especially you and Kalanyr. I'd hate for something like that to happen to ED, but I think Artix Entertainment know what they're doing as a money-making business and I look forward to see the results of you becoming someone who reads feedback from ED.

I am curious as to why this has happened though... maybe the stuff people complain about in ED will get "worse" with new updates, resulting in more complaints, hence new rules. But I don't know i'm just curious [:D]




Fay Beeee -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 15:02:20)

Well here we go. lol
1st Welcome and thank you for taking the time to explain. It does help.

2nd
quote:


....what Congrats thread? The sticky cleaning actually wasn't done by me. I'm okay with having a congrats thread, I suppose. Though what purpose does it serve that the Acc/Disaccomplishment thread doesn't?

The Acc/Dss is for blowing your own trumpet.
The CONGRATULATIONS thread was for congratulation other members of the community. eg. Well done on winning 1v1 or Graz on reaching War Lord 'insert name'





DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 15:05:02)

@Fay: I created another thread, is in EDGD, you may look at it if you want.
Lord, may I ask you a favor? Make my congratulation thread official, I see no point in not having one, if you took a look before it was deleted, all the post were really positive and encouraging.




Ubear -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 15:07:51)

Unless we are allowed a small "off-topic" note to our ACC/DIS posts then I also think it's a great idea to make the Congrats thread again. If it's back then I don't see a point of the ACC/DIS thread. Maybe delete that instead of the congrats thread




Sipping Cider -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 15:16:53)

Well, that was on meaningful thought out post there. Glad to hear more about our new head moderator, and his morals.

Definitely enlightened me on why these changes occurred. I am very glad to hear that balance discussions might be unrestricted in the future. However, I think discussion about The Gap should be opened because:

It is a good way for the Devs to figure out what the community is wanting. It also is one of the first discussions that have been discussed civilly and It is could be a great example of what our community can do when we all work together peacefully. Plus, it is a good place to learn about stuff that is going on between varium and non-variums. I never knew that varium players were putting down non-varium players just because they did not purchase, and now I can sympathize more with the non-variums that say they are being treated unfairly. This thread would not be about AE valuing its players based on their status, but rather the community valuing its players without bias or prejudice.




Lord Barrius -> RE: =ED= Forum Policy Changes (8/11/2011 15:17:51)

Alright, a few more responses. Since you all have been very polite in expressing your points of view, I'm willing to show you that I do listen and take them into consideration. As such:


I'll tag the new Congrats thread to make it official, though it won't be stickied. We had soooooooooo many sticky threads before, it was messy. And I couldn't get them off my paws. o_o

I will temporarily allow "The GAP" to reopen (the thread, not the clothing store) for a while. But I expect people to remain civil. If things get out of hand, it'll be locked again.



Also, I reiterate my goal is not to say "you can't discuss stuff" (unless you start a thread about the financial things, those are absolutely no-nos). It's to tell you that you can say those things so long as you can do it without disrespecting each other or our staff. I'm not forbidding you to disagree with the ED devs. I'm telling you that I expect you to be able to disagree and discuss the situation maturely and considerately.




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