RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (Full Version)

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Basicball -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/13/2011 17:21:34)

^that indeed seems like something i'd like :)



soul sythe11 -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/13/2011 17:34:55)

Just finished reading though all the pages. The balance update seems like it will really change how ED will be played. My main worry now is that people may be too powerful. Battles may turn into 3 hit matches even at max level with the best gear and sturdy defenses. Perhaps loosening the grip of agility, making stat points give 3-4 hp per point, and making stat points give 3 mp per point would fix this. This is just from the glimpses of the release I've seen though, I could very well be wrong.



Basicball -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/13/2011 17:48:11)

making hp 1.5-2 X as powerfull and mp 1.5 X as powerfull would be VERY op



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/13/2011 17:53:13)

@soul: your way off, this is buffing everything but strength builds, which were already killing in 2 or 3 turns.



Ashari -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/13/2011 20:09:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: soul sythe11

Just finished reading though all the pages. The balance update seems like it will really change how ED will be played. My main worry now is that people may be too powerful. Battles may turn into 3 hit matches even at max level with the best gear and sturdy defenses. Perhaps loosening the grip of agility, making stat points give 3-4 hp per point, and making stat points give 3 mp per point would fix this. This is just from the glimpses of the release I've seen though, I could very well be wrong.

Agility was implemented in the first place because raising Health is already significantly better than raising defenses and as diminishing returns on Dexteriy and Technology kick in, that problem is only made worse. Removing it now would just open the floodgates for high health builds. These balance changes are going to make pure offensive builds less effective so you won't be seeing as many 3 or 2-turn matches actually.

As for Agility, right now it's a temporary band-aid at best. What will need to be done in the future is apply a new system for health and energy gains. The current system will not work as the levels continue to rise and the stats we have available increase -- it will break down very quickly.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/13/2011 22:53:39)

^But high health builds are so much fun!!!!!!! No problem opening it, of course it will be spammed, but its more fun this way.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/13/2011 22:56:03)

If agility didn't exist, then how many stats a varium player has over an f2p is how much HP x2 they can potentially get.
e.g. same stats but varium player has 80 more life.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 6:00:12)

@ Ashari

Sorry but those gates of High HP builds allready exist... and are used By Tact mercs...

I've seen Tact Mercs, Not kidding with 30 + attack, about 25 in defence and resistance + 12 defence ( HS ) and +9 ( Armor ) and
still have over 140 Hp...



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 7:00:36)

I've seen a strength tactical merc with 201 HP ._.

Agility is really a psychological constraint rather than a practical one.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 7:02:16)

@ SSM

I've seen a Mod ingame, Tact Merc with Founder and A lot of STR...
He had +300 Hp

Try beating that when he hits 35/45 while you hit 30



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 8:11:14)

For some reason, the devs forgot about restock I think. [8|]



Pegadius -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 11:25:22)

@frogbone
first i'm not a tactical mercenary :o
+ i am a player from beta as well with my other account Pegadius
i know it has been frustrating and i know that people are paying a lot of money and still be overpowered my tactical mercenaries. i know, i too am overpowered by them, but you can't win every battle now can you ? :o



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 12:26:41)

agility won't affect you much if your opponent constantly has to play defensive.



Wraith -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 12:53:29)

quote:

@ SSM

I've seen a Mod ingame, Tact Merc with Founder and A lot of STR...
He had +300 Hp

Try beating that when he hits 35/45 while you hit 30


Name of Omni xD. He has 303 health.

IMO, agility needs a rescale.

For level 1-20: lvl+50+0.4lvl. Cap: 2lvl+80+.9lvl

For 21-30:

2lvl+50 Agility Cap: 3lvl+85

For 31+

2lvl+60 Cap: 3lvl+90

At Cap-20 it goes to -7 and -7 max. No more no less.



demonred1 -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 14:35:06)

Noooooooooooooo lvl cap being raised is really bad for non variums how will we npc???. We will only have valery too npc off thats only 5 wins per hour! I really want this fixed or I will quit we need more lvl 29 npc.



Pegadius -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 16:24:14)

Demonred
yeah Npcing is easy but you could try to kill other players too :P this game IS epic DUEL after all xD
but yeah, we do need more higher level npc-s



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 16:48:03)

I swear the guys at flash are watching us becuase everytime we are about to do something cool they come in and mess us up



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 17:05:48)

its all a conspiracy ^^ lol

These things happen. remember when Internet Explorer changed and no websites worked. that browser basically died as a useable product for years. until IE9.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/14/2011 19:52:10)

Agility don't need a re-scale, it needs to get re-vamped and redone.
e.g. chance to block decrease or block chance increase when higher life.



Scyth789 -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/15/2011 3:05:23)

quote:

Agility was implemented in the first place because raising Health is already significantly better than raising defenses and as diminishing returns on Dexteriy and Technology kick in, that problem is only made worse. Removing it now would just open the floodgates for high health builds. These balance changes are going to make pure offensive builds less effective so you won't be seeing as many 3 or 2-turn matches actually.


Lets put it this way.

Now when I compare myself to the old times I do not see a difference at all. Like I was at lv 30-31. Those were the times when Agility was first implemented. I remember the damages I dealt then and the ones I do now. It's all the same. If I did 15-18 Damage then, I still do it now. Coz of the diminishing stats that were implemented.

Block Rates ? Well, we cannot help it. As we go on in levels and are accumulating Stat points, they have to be allocated somewhere. Hence some put it on Dex. So As it goes on, block rates increase. So... NERF DEX. Easy Answer.

Physical Defense becomes too powerful. We cannot do much on Phy attacks. Soooo... Diminishing Stat Returns. Easy way to bring out Defenses and Certain Offenses.

Technology goes up. It improves skills. And mostly it improves Bots. So... Diminishing Returns again to make the Resistance Value go down again and also Nerf the bots. And eventually there will be a time when we'll have a 6 Focus build where bots will deal 6x the damage. So we'll eventually scale them down to 5x again.

Support.. Well, It has Diminishing Returns too to it just like strength. But it still remains that much effective.

Those stufsf also boost skills. So eventually they will be brought down too. Things has always been like this. Today when I compare myself to where I stacked up a long time back to wben Agility was first introduced, I just myself standing in the same place... Same Damage, Same defenses, Nerf is still the answer to everything and not a skilled Build. Any difference.... Yes. I just gain a whole lot of stat points only to find myself in the same place all over again to where I started from. Is this what you mean by being powerful where power only comes when you Buy New Weapons and Change class when it should have been your stats that do the same to you.

Why is it ? Why re we all just running in circles ?



Ashari -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/15/2011 3:35:31)

@Scyth789: Unfortunately with ED's current system, extreme builds that focus in purely one stat are still favored over those that are hybrids. Agility and diminishing returns were put in place in part because of how quickly balance breaks down when someone puts 200 points in health or 120 in strength. These became issues because EpicDuel didn't have a very rigid system that could handle such extreme values. As soon as the stats got past the expected norms, balance got thrown completely out of whack.

Agility is still a temporary band-aid as I said before... it's not something that anyone wants to see remain in EpicDuel for much longer. It was a nerf, but it was a necessary one at the time.

The new changes are hardly nerfs, in fact level 33s will be seeing most of their skills become stronger because of the new scaling. As for low level players, this is aimed at bringing some balance to them. Low level duels will no longer be a game of extremes. You won't be one shot by a Plasma Bolt or Fireball anymore, and a Smoke Screen won't leave you defenseless. This is just bringing skills inline with the weapons and stats available at each level. The goal being that using energy should always be more effective than not using energy.


Also I think everyone will be glad to hear that the power of some luck factors are getting reduced with this update! Titan managed to squeeze this in with the extra time we had because of the delay.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/15/2011 5:13:35)

quote:

Block Rates ? Well, we cannot help it. As we go on in levels and are accumulating Stat points, they have to be allocated somewhere. Hence some put it on Dex. So As it goes on, block rates increase. So... NERF DEX. Easy Answer.


I'm sorry but I'll have to protest against that...

As a BloodMage, a Very High Dex build is the only thing keeping me alive against STR builds...
If you nerf that, that would mean a nerf for SC and OverLoad aswell


@Ashari
So I assume the Update has been delayed to Friday?



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/15/2011 6:56:42)

quote:

I'm sorry but I'll have to protest against that...

As a BloodMage, a Very High Dex build is the only thing keeping me alive against STR builds...


Yes, I saw your build which indeed is quite very powerful but I do not understand why place 64 mana when you have a lvl 1 heal? Can't you like decrease mana(up to 50) and put it to hp for more chance of survival?



Ubear -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/15/2011 7:39:59)

quote:

As a BloodMage, a Very High Dex build is the only thing keeping me alive against STR builds...
Same for me as a bounty. High dex + reflex boost and I still lose against some high STR bounty hunters :S high strength tactical mercs aren't a problem for my build but support tactical mercs are...



PowerMega -> RE: =ED= DNS August 12, 2011 - The Unending Battle for Better Flash Performance (8/15/2011 7:41:46)

I wonder if this rescaling is really gonna help damage rates because if skills like Berserker are becoming like Deadly aim, wouldn't that still benefit Str Mercs, assuming that Berserker becomes like a Sword version of Deadly Aim, making it so they would still hit around the same high hits or if not much higher damage than they used to?

Now that I'm thinking about, if that's so, then Support Blood Mage gonna be a pretty good all rounder, with deadly aim for sidearm, high support for aux, berserker for for sword.

I'm not feeling Intimidate, I hope that gets replaced because it doesn't belong in the Blood Mage skill tree.

I'm kinda looking forward to this update.[:)]

This gonna really change how the game is played.



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