RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (Full Version)

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Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 0:54:00)

Sorry Wiseman, I truly disagree. One point is not compensation for entirely changing the dynamics of the armor. One class has more of a challenge using this armor then the others. This will also be a fact. We will use the analogy of that one extra point costing 250 varium, how much did it cost to enhance all 10 slots into the original configuration of the Founder's tech mage armor? A 10% gift for a newly configured armor for originally investing into the armor that cost over 2k varium. Your stance doesn't matter to me; I am addressing an issue on a respectful consideration from the developers. Your opinion is as equal to mine since we both involved ourselves within this game equally directly and indirectly in community service.

As I mentioned before, I have nothing invested in this armor, so I am speaking on behalf of players who are disconcert with this adjustment.



Celestine -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 1:10:41)

@JZaanu:
As I mentioned earlier in my post, the point of the stat modifications was not to make it harder for one class to adjust to the new armor, that would be silly to annoy one class just for the sake of it.
If we take a look at the bigger picture, this change was needed in order to introduce weapons that could change as you changed classes.

This is benefiting you in the long run, it was not meant to aggravate players. Wouldn't you rather buy one item knowing it will be useful if you ever were to change classes?
You would be wasting more varium buying separate specific class weapons.

Also, I believe compensation is not needed, the extra point seems more of a gift, if anything.
I could remind you of the terms you accepted when joining ED, but I rather not get into that.
The players that are angry at this change will learn to adjust to it, and the ED players have adjusted to so many changes, I doubt this will be a problem.

Note: I use the word "you" to address everyone, not just you, JZaanu.



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 1:41:26)

I appreciate your response Celestine.

I know exactly why this was implemented. Honestly, I knew much before this feature was added. This game is based on class change now. Again, that is their choice. I am not sure why you have repeated everything including the TOS to me. Wiseman mentioned it, and I knew it many years ago and I don't wish to be reminded multiple times. I have stated my opinion and given very honest reasonings why a respectful compensation should be given for players who invested into a product to work as it was originally designed, and now it is modified for a new progression in the game.

The game put itself in this position. Bottom line on this. IT IS A TRUST ISSUE

Sadly I have had to repeat this statement many times.

This will be my last post on this issue, please don't respond to me anymore.



nico0las -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 17:58:49)

Founder is, hands down, the best armor for a str build. 18 str fully enhanced? the majority of armors don't pass 12.

I'd like to see founder buffed to 10 defense, and we can choose between physical or energy defense.



wario the great -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 18:55:10)

^^
good for mercs and bhs but sux for tech mages, why would a tech mage need str as jzaanu said it changes the whol dynamics of the armour it would be like saying 100 str is the same a 100 tech but its totally diffeent different stats do different things. If yo have ever tried tm with founder armour you will get why we are compaining. The devs could at least tell u in advance that this would happen but this was out of the blue. I didnt even know about it till i unequiped my founder and put it back on.



Sparticus -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 21:32:38)

I'm not a mage nor do I have a Founder mage so I have no stake in the outcome of this change. I do, however, find this alteration of a very rare piece of a players inventory disconcerting. Putting aside all the very fine reasons the staff members and their support crew have given for this change, I do not find it palatable for the mage/TM class and I would be very displeased if this was my only class and my only armor. Not every player is fortunate enough to be able to purchase new armors and with the advent of the LQS perhaps not as fortunate to be around to get one even if they could afford it. Add the cost of enhancements and armors are a MAJOR investment for many young players, one they might not be able to easily afford again.

The reason I mention this is because I've read where this change will make it easier to change classes and have your weapons change class with you thus saving you money. I wonder though, what if you don't want to change classes or can't afford to change classes? How does an irreparable alteration of a rare piece of someones inventory benefit them? Perhaps there are few players who this effects. Perhaps the number of Founder mages who were inconvenienced was small. One might say this is a fine reason to push forward with the change since it will benefit so many and hurt so few. The other position taken by several posters and held by me is just the opposite. If there are so few players that this is effecting, why not make a public gesture of goodwill and make them happy? If there are so few of them it will hurt no one and make the community feel well supported. On the other hand, if there are indeed many Founder mages who need to be made whole, why were they inconvenienced in the first place? Rhetorical questions don't require answers.

I have no comment on how or what compensation compromise might be fair, I would defer that discussion to those who were injured.



Aere -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 22:16:56)

I highly doubt any mages are thrilled with this change.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 22:19:31)

This update killed mages even more. It's been a year since the Devs killed the mage class, and they still continue to hit the class again and again. When will they stop? Till everyone class changes to tactical mercs or BH.



Joe10112 -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 22:55:31)

I'm pretty certain that Founder Armor is favoring one class more than antoehr. I know this is a suggestion, but it would be cool if you could place your own stat points in the Founder Armor to satisfy all you guys...



Darkoake445 -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 22:56:43)

Although that is somewhat of a good idea Joe it would lead to people creating 26 support armors. That would add to the even greater problem of stat abuse.



xxmirxx -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/1/2011 22:57:12)

Mages are bad class in my opinion but cyber bounty are even worst and then blood mages. I am glad founder armor is dieing as buff goes I think founders will get.



Lord Nub -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 1:47:18)

Yeah this is ludicrous actually. My mage which was a powerhouse the day prior to Delta can barely stand up now and that was the only way to even make a proper mage.

Thanks devs for listening to your inexperienced testers and pushing us all to one side of the boat which will eventually sink from the weight. I really appreciate it. Oh and the constant lag and turn skips helps nothing once again.

Oh and PS to the lack of knowledge mans post,

How many skills increase with str as a modifier on a mage? Yeah so how was that not a nerf again? You can swing it whichever way you want but it was bull and has no place. I don't even use founder anymore as it pales in comparison to tesla BUT that was just another smack in the face to mages.

Also as previously mentioned, this is HUGE trust issue!!!! To change stats on an item in our inventories for this long is KILLER! Seriously that tells us there just gonna run around doing this garbage now and when we purchase an item it may not have the same stats the next week, therefore making it useless to our builds. Thanks much appreciated.

Oh yeah and just noticed Angels comment on page 1. Very nicely put and I agree infinitely. This is madness and if Titan himself doesn't respond to us on this issue it's gonna be bad. I think we deserve a straightforward answer on this.



gmurray -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 1:54:01)

Leading on from joe's idea how about we make founder have a block of 9 and a block of 8 Which Founders can me around at thier leisure



Joe10112 -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 1:58:28)

Just a question Tech Mages,

What was original stats? I know now there is a +strength bonus, but what was it originally?


Or maybe, the Founder Armor changes for every class statwise, like maybe for mages you get +tech instead of STR, for BH you get +more dex, for mercs you get +STR?



Lord Nub -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 1:59:40)

+8 tech and dex for mages and + 8 dex and str for mercs and bhs

@below,

Doesn't matter what it should or shouldn't be, fact is they changed the stats on something already purchased. That's a trust issue if i've ever heard of one.



Joe10112 -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 2:03:51)

Was the original? Now that works very well. I don't see why the changed it.

But I think for mercs, +8 str/+8 dex is good, but for BH, it should just be +16 DEX lol



edwardvulture -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 2:09:52)

Tbh It made sense that they changed it the way it did. Founder Armor was 1 armor and so it is just logical that they all have the same stats. Back when it was a promo, they didn't preview the stats, so you could have got anything.

But the real rip-off was when they removed the P version...



Lord Nub -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 2:11:33)

Made sense? It's just as Angel pointed out. They realized mages weren't purchasing new armor and completely screwed them over with this basically requiring them to purchase new armor. That's not cool bro not cool at all.



edwardvulture -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 2:12:56)

They did give founders 1000 varium which they could have spent on the Tesla E, which has 2 more resistence.



Arcanis -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 3:14:22)

quote:

Tbh It made sense that they changed it the way it did. Founder Armor was 1 armor and so it is just logical that they all have the same stats. Back when it was a promo, they didn't preview the stats, so you could have got anything.


Yes,they have all same stats. But how come they were chosen str and dex? Why they weren't dex/teh? Or lets go screwy and say all 4?



drinde -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 5:03:35)

quote:

But the real rip-off was when they removed the P version...


There was a P version?



zion -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 6:30:08)

No offense to the founders but -
F2p mages have been feeling this for quite some time - and our only updated armor is a str armor as well -
They are pushing towards evolving to blood mage at high levels, now if they would just give the hybrid armor to blood mage, all would be well.



Shadronica -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/2/2011 20:29:07)

Hah! I just found this thread.

Nice one Khannibal! Thanks Jzaanu!

Yeah I personally feel dissed? .... trashed!! ... by the Mage Founder armor being changed to give us strength attributes. Especially at a time when strength was being nerfed anyway.

More and more this game just wants to distance itself from the customers who originally supported this game. There is so little respect from the team which in turn leads to so little respect from any of the other players.

Most of the decent companies know the value of long term customers and in fact it is practice to allow small privileges to keep them happy. So where does ED stand here?

Don't get me wrong I am the last person to beg for anything so I am not asking for privileges ... rather I am asking for some respect.

Please oh please fix this travesty. Does begging do me any justice? I think not.

I believe you have a new coder now so fix this ASAP. Surely this can be by-passed somehow to give us founder mages a chance to use our armor the way we bought it. Why should we ALWAYS feel pressured to buy everything you keep throwing at us? (tesla armor) ... or change classes all the time?

Its a joke surely.

Yeah I know what most of you are thinking ... just leave this request on the bottom of the "to do" list. Mages are unimportant right? Especially founder ones.

Yeah just look after those TLM's till you decide its time for everyone to do another class change to the next OP class.

Your call ED dev's ... there is no diversity here.

@Edwardvulture.
How far do you think 1000 varium goes in a game that the founders have supported for one and three quarter years now? The enhancements alone exceed the cost of the tesla armor. So your point is?

P.S
Wiseman has announced that there will be no more buffs to any armor or weapons. Thanks so much for allowing me to spit on my founder status ED team.




Rooster -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/3/2011 5:38:56)

I'm seriously upset that my mage founder armor has been rendered useless. I've been a Mage from the beginning and only recently changed to TLM - I would love to change back, but it's getting more and more difficult if you want to be competitive.
I hear the reasoning from the devs that it is to "streamline" the armors, which allows for new armors to be added in the future. I just don't understand it. Can someone please explain to me why all founder armors need to have the same stats to allow the addition of new "mutating" armors? Does this also mean that any new "mutating" armor will need to have the same stats than founder? I think it's just a cop out. There is no logical reason for this to HAVE to be. It may be easier to have it that way, but there's no way it HAS to be. For example, I'm sure they could have just kept the mage founder armor as a separate armor from the other founder armors. That way, they would have to make changes at two place instead of one if they want to make changes to founder in the future, but I think that's a little price to pay for integrity.
I'm sure such a solution wouldn't have been a problem. This said, I've never programmed for Flash, so maybe it would have been, but given that there are different type of armors in the game, I doubt it.
Maybe someone with experience in this area can enlighten me (us) on this issue.




Wiseman -> RE: What happened to the Founder Armour? (9/3/2011 5:47:05)

Since there will be absolutely no more buffs to the Founder Armor, I see no reason to leave this topic open any longer.

Thread locked.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=19570518



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