The current passives -- Your opinions (Full Version)

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Wraith -> The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 19:22:44)

THIS IS NOT TO DISCUSS NERFING WHATSOEVER. TO AKs/MODS: IF THIS TOPIC ENDS UP LIKE THAT PLEASE LOCK IT. THANK YOU.



Hybrid Armor: Well obviously this is the best passive, ever. 13 bonus defense/resistance can save you up to 50 damage in a normal fight. (4 round,13*4=52 and look at the STR TLMs). However, the downside is that it is a necessity. A mercenary without Hybrid Armor is one that must enjoy dying.

[Shadow Arts: Sorta odd. While very, VERY useful, it is completely luck-based. There might be a chance that it will be useless, but it certainly helps CH/BHs. High Dexfor BH is key, not as much for CH however.

Bloodlust: Hit to live. The concept is sound, but it is not the strongest passive IMHO, because once you are smoked (again the amount of STR TLMs using smoke is shocking) you will have a harder time using this skill. Though in boss fights it is awesome, but ED is PvP based.

Reroute: Essential skill for Mages, not as much for TLM. TLM can simply out-tank the damage. I think of TLM without Reroute as a BH without Bloodlust but with Hybrid Armor, which is infinitesimally better. For Mages, without this and only the base 48 energy (or a few extra if extra stat points are owned). It's idea is as a 'lifesaver' for Tech Mages, because the ability to regain energy literally forever as long as they are not dead allows them to heal on and on, aka survival.

I rank them:

1) Hybrid Armor
2) Reroute
3) Bloodlust
4) Shadow Arts



Please do not just give a list, please also explain your reasons and your opinion of the skill. =) I look forward to seeing your opinions.



To AKs/Mods: This doesn't belong in the =ED= Balance Discussions thread because it is only opinions. If you read the first line I mentioned that nerfing (or anything balance related) is not supposed to be here, so this isn't about discussing balance.



DeathGuard -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 19:38:08)

I will say:
1.)Reroute: Being a mage, energy is vital for them and it has save me thousands of times.
2.)Hybrid Armor: Because it is passive and gives you def/res.
3.)Bloodlust: Recovers hp depending on the damage made to your opponent, so if you only deal minimun damage, it won't work to its full potential
4.)Shadow Arts: It doesn't helps that much like others passives.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 19:39:56)

quote:

Hybrid Armor: Well obviously this is the best passive, ever. 13 bonus defense/resistance can save you up to 50 damage in a normal fight. (4 round,13*4=52 and look at the STR TLMs). However, the downside is that it is a necessity. A mercenary without Hybrid Armor is one that must enjoy dying.

Thank you! Finally someone who gets it. People are always like you Tactical Mercs will be fine without Hybrid Armor. You have reroute. Sure reroute helps. But still we are still a form of Mercs. And Mercs rely on Hybrid Armor. So anyone TLM or Merc who doesn't have reroute. Like you said, must greatly enjoy dying.
Anyway my rank is. Hybrid Armor, Bloodlust, Reroute, and Shadow Arts.



AQWPlayer -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 21:30:34)

You forgot deadly aim :O
Why put shadow arts if you don't add in deadly aim?



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 21:35:45)

They are not needed I have made effective builds without Bloodlust, Shadow Arts, Reroute and Deadly Aim. As it is impossible to make a build without Hybrid i have not done that but i have made builds that completely neglect it.


Now my thoughts on Passives is we use them so much that whenever someone sees a build lacking a passive they feel the need to say your build would be better if you had this skill when in reality moving points to that passive could make your build worse



Stabilis -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 21:44:59)

If I'm a mage, reroute.
If I'm a bounty, reroute.
If I'm a merc, reroute.
If I'm a blood, reroute.
If I'm a cyber, reroute.
If I'm a tactical, reroute.

The one thing that wins every time when applied to rage build up is reroute. Hybrid slows it down for the user, bloodlust requires increasing the enemy's rage, and shadow arts only increases the enemy's rage. Deadly aim is OK though.

Tech mages have the best passives.



nico0las -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 22:16:05)

Fine as they are. I'd like to see a bloodlust buff, but seeing as I'm now a CH, I don't really care all that much.

@gold That's the beauty of CH. They're extremely vulnerable to energy. I, personally, DO lose to str tacts, if I'm not first. If they're not smart enough to change their hybrid, I deal 45-50 damage/ strike, not including an 88 massacre. I think it would be EXTREMELY beneficial if mercs actually changed their armor attribute, but whatever works.

Bloodlust is arguably the best passive. It kept you alive against support tacts and str tacts alike. Sadly, it's underrated now, and against our new/old tactical adversary, it it simply useless. They deal more damage than one can heal.



ngshuyi94 -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 22:31:35)

^ U gotta be kidding me, a bloodlust buff? It is fine as it is, buffing it will make it OPed.

1. Reroute.
2. Blood Lust.
3. Hybrid Armor.
4. Shadow Arts.



rej -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/19/2011 22:44:16)

*notices lack of deadlyh aim*

if it wern't for the present massive support build nerfs (and, inversely, str build buffs) i would actualy say deadly aim is more useful than shadow arts.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 0:34:37)

quote:

Hybrid Armor: Well obviously this is the best passive, ever. 13 bonus defense/resistance can save you up to 50 damage in a normal fight. (4 round,13*4=52 and look at the STR TLMs). However, the downside is that it is a necessity. A mercenary without Hybrid Armor is one that must enjoy dying.

who would be the noob to attack all physical anyway? (assuming the tlm dont switch which he probably wont as it is a waste of turn)

i think bloodlust is the better passive because hybrid just gives the enemy more rage



Midnightsoul -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 1:41:49)

1. reroute (idk about static charge...)
2. bloodlust
3. hybrid armor (it only defends one element...)
4. deadly aim
5. shadow arts

now there are a few combos that if mixed, it can be rel
really strong. bloodlust can be powerful with anything, in massive endurance, it would be HA, for offense, it would be DA...u guys get what i mean...



jegaggin -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 3:15:17)

lol I like how they are right now :)



goldslayer1 -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 3:25:36)

1) bloodlust
it regains for every attack. not just str builds.

2) Reroute
the greatest weapon is being allowed to use more skills than ur enemy by having more energy.
reroute supplies that energy as the match goes on.

3) hybrid
altho it protects u, it only does for 1 element.
for example i could be using physical shield but the enemy has strong energy attacks. so there wouldn't be much difference.
and it also increase enemy rage faster

4) Deadly aim
Combined with malf and energy gun on tech mage is a pretty deadly combo

5) shadow arts
altho i place this as 5th, it is a luck based skill (which im not good at luck unlike others -.-) the biggest game changer is always usually a block. this also increase stun chance

6) Static charge
personally i dont like.

7) assimilation
i dont like it either and should be fixxed. when doing damage against someone with reroute, the enemy turns out to get more energy than what u take.

8) Blood shield
IMO this one is the worst.
wastes a turn, give enemy more rage, and it takes away my health when using it.



rej -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 19:24:55)

quote:

1) bloodlust
it regains for every attack. not just str builds.

2) Reroute
the greatest weapon is being allowed to use more skills than ur enemy by having more energy.
reroute supplies that energy as the match goes on.

3) hybrid
altho it protects u, it only does for 1 element.
for example i could be using physical shield but the enemy has strong energy attacks. so there wouldn't be much difference.
and it also increase enemy rage faster

4) Deadly aim
Combined with malf and energy gun on tech mage is a pretty deadly combo

5) shadow arts
altho i place this as 5th, it is a luck based skill (which im not good at luck unlike others -.-) the biggest game changer is always usually a block. this also increase stun chance

6) Static charge
personally i dont like.

7) assimilation
i dont like it either and should be fixxed. when doing damage against someone with reroute, the enemy turns out to get more energy than what u take.

8) Blood shield
IMO this one is the worst.
wastes a turn, give enemy more rage, and it takes away my health when using it.


those bottom 3 technicaly arn't passives, since you have to waste a turn using each.



hardcore59 -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 19:37:34)

1)hybrid - no explanation needed
2)bloodlust - hard hitting with max is godly
3)reroute - if you have spammed defense/resistance practically useless
4)shadow arts - useless



Wraith -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 20:12:15)

I apologize for forgetting Deadly Aim, it is well...useful. The bonus damage disregarding STR bumps up a gun more than its worth. That's why Support Mages exist.



AQWPlayer -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 21:17:37)

Wonder why people put reroute in first place [&:]
It has a tech requirement which is useless unless you have a good plasma bolt AND plasma rain or robot (which in most cases is assault bot, often put in standby mode for when the enemy debuffs). Bloodlust, on the other hand, has a tech requirement, which improves both smoke and EMP grenade (one of the best non-passive skills in game)...and robot as well, if you have one. Hybrid Armor is also a great passive (most OP skill IMO) as the dexterity requirement allows TLMs to have a higher technician and hit chance, benefitting all builds except support builds. (despite having destroyed the merc class)



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 21:29:42)

@goldslayer

Strength BH's and TLMs would usually use physical attacks, since their smokescreen would lower the merc's/TLM's defense to equal or lower than that of its resistance.

On topic:

1) Hybrid Armour: It would usually save much more HP than Bloodlust and is useful in almost all situations

2) Bloodlust: While it is incredible, it's effect becomes considerably limited when doing low damage, for example against tanks

3) Reroute: It is also very good, however a skillful player would know how to attack to prevent the opponent from getting a significant amount of EP, thus limiting its effectiveness. (That's how I handle my TM opponents :S)

4) Shadow Arts: I personally consider this skill inconsistent and should only be added to if the person has an excess of skill points.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 21:56:03)

quote:

Strength BH's and TLMs would usually use physical attacks, since their smokescreen would lower the merc's/TLM's defense to equal or lower than that of its resistance.

i dont see how that matters much. it still doesnt change the fact that a tlm can get attack with a energy wep while having physical hybrid
making hybrid useless against energy attacks unless u change it to resistance.
in which then the opponent will switch to physical attack, wasting one of my turn and giving him better damage on me.



AQWPlayer -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/20/2011 23:23:59)

@goldslayer
TLMs have technician to buff up resistance while having hybrid armor to cover up their defense.



Jekyll -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/21/2011 6:41:43)

As a CH, I simply hate Shadow Arts, because winning by luck is never satisfying.



Gepard Acht -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/21/2011 6:57:40)

^ yeah , as much as luck is part of the game, luck passives doesn't give us anything except hopes up so giving CH only SA is one of the worst choices ever (my opinion)

Hybrid - hmm let see, its liek having a super powerful not existing armor that gives def and you can change it over and over
BL - essential to lots of build that doesnt concentrate on def/res but focuses on the damage, and basically giving free heals while doing the attack
Reroute - this makes a lot of player not needing much EP due to the fact that reroute covers it up
Deadly Aim - this makes a the gun the strongest wep
Shadow art - .........



Drianx -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/21/2011 7:54:17)

The game was much simpler when all these passives were designed. In the early days of the game, mercs and bounties were oriented on strength, and mages on spellcasting, hence their initial passives. This was before auxiliaries I think.

Times have changed alot, and these passives are not enough right now. I think a new and more flexible passive skills system should be introduced. I think about this:

All classes should be able to train any passive in the game. But the max level of the passives should not be the same for all classes. Like, if you're a mage, you can train lv10 reroute, but can only train lv3 hybrid armor, and so on. These limitations should be different for each class. Also, if you train bloodlust, you shouldn't be able to train hybrid armor.

These are only some ideas that came into my mind right now. Anyway, just equipping a class with two powerful passives and then trying to nerf it for months by altering the entire game system is not a good idea.



rej -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/21/2011 16:22:05)

Passives used to play a large part in balancing the game. Sure, there were still inconsistencies, but every class had exactly the same number of passives (exept for mage, which had the use of one extra, extremely weak passive.)



goldslayer1 -> RE: The current passives -- Your opinions (10/21/2011 16:53:08)

quote:

TLMs have technician to buff up resistance while having hybrid armor to cover up their defense.

and the technician buff is usually around 20-30 tech >.>
= not worth the tech, and not worth the waste of turn
plus mostly everbody (with exception of few) use technician above lvl 1



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