RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel General Discussion



Message

Gepard Acht -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:31:48)

str Tlms are quite challenging, but 5 focus tanks are even worse , after you used up most/all of your moves they would just heal big/SS/frenzy which is annoying dealing mid-high dmg plus gaining quite a lot of health and reducing rage



TurkishIncubus -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:34:46)

@psibertus
LOL you made it pride issue , im just gonna change class after nerf , you guys forget that if TLM nerf another class will take its place so after that you guys will start to hate another class XD , 1 day you will see you hate all other classes XD

Str BH can win a Str TLM now if TLM got 1 more nerf BH will totally win so nothing will change.



Remorse -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:43:14)

^classic turkish defending his Builds and masking the fact that he knows hes oped (at least I hope he knows it [:-])

The point of my reasoning if you read it for once if your life, IS THAT I DONT CARE IF YOU CAN BE BEATIN , The point is you get UNDESERVING wins because of your huge amount of STUNs!

WINS which no one can aviod and thats what makes you oped!

I know their will always be classes and builds more effective then others but NO CLASS OR BUILD should be able to get so many undeserving wins even with messed up luck factors.

This IS the balance we can control unlike what would seem to be powerful builds replacing each other one after another.

Once agian this is not a complaint over what i think is the hardest build to beat, if i had to choose it would be focus TLMs but that doesnt mean they are Oped in the sence they get UNDESERVING wins like Str TLMs do which is why in my opinion they are oped.





DunkThatOreo -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:47:33)

^Pwned



PivotalDisorder -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:47:39)

@Turkish: I don't think finding another OP class will be possible. I think the other 4 [mercs suck apparently] are fine even with strength builds. all very beatable.
those players might actually have to employ their legendary brain power and true greatness to earn their wins, like everyone else.



Calogero -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:47:46)

@ Turkish

STR builds might not be OP in your view, but Maul is...
That crap stuns more on lvl 1 than the other stuns ingame



BlueKatz -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:48:05)

I believe the most broken skill on TLM is Maul



DunkThatOreo -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:51:13)

Remove maul stun for berkzerk :PPP that would be interesting



Gepard Acht -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:51:47)

i mean reducing 20% def/res and improves by str, plus it could stun is just wicked



Remorse -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 6:52:48)

^thank you guys for finally seeing my way [:D]

Plus for those of you who arnt exactly convinced.

If a TLM mauls just twice at lvl 1 they would have aproximately 50% of stunning once during them game [:'(] OPED

3 times and you looking at aproximately 75% chance for a stun

ANd this is only for lvl 1 maul!

Also Stun means their attacks after are unblockable which means RISK FREE attacks something wich is extremely unfair combined with a rage double strike or frenzy



TurkishIncubus -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:00:50)

@Remorse
man im not defending anything i just tell what i think , im using the best weps of the game and do hardly 92-93 % how can this be oped ?!(also i can tell im one of the most strategic player as a str tlm) but Tank TLM can do 98-100% with just spaming attacks and healing continuesly.

Im saying if Devs nerf TLM , im gonna change class to BH , how could you understand that im protecting tlm from this sentence?

BTW most strong skill of tlm skill tree is Field medic and Atom smasher , first of all with 6 energy i can reduce oponents +30 energy which also means no massacre no berserker or other thing for other classes and field medic give benefit to tlm more than others cause high def make regained heal more important(if a bh heals 35 hp it can lose it in 1 turn but for tlm 35 hp means atleast 2 turn staying alive) and with reroute we can use more than 1 heals



Remorse -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:10:03)

^ Turkish

Please try to understand that Im not talking about how often you win! PLEASE try and picture the word OPED as a word meaning a build which obtains unfair undeserving wins!

I Agree with you focus TLM are a great build but If i win or lose to one at least I can say that was a good battle, Most of the str TLMs vicories agianst me leave me saying WOW another stun HOW ARE YOU MENT TO WIN???

Yes I beat them when they dont stun and occasionly when they stun and i get luky the point is you get undeserving wins far too often!

Also I didnt say you were defending TLMs i said you were defending your builds. And your builds happnen to be good at winning when you sometimes shouldnt.



Baron Dante -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:29:18)

quote:

PLEASE try and picture the word OPED as a word meaning a build which obtains unfair undeserving wins!


Wut. Such thing as "unfair undeserving wins" simply does not exist.

Either you win or you don't.

And such thing as "OP build" does not exist either. It's simply the matter of finding the best build in the game. If that build happens to be on the OP class, just means that the class is OP. And, without a doubt, the best build is the one that can have the best % and/or best win/per hour ratio.

These two don't work together. STR TlM is apparently the fastest, while Tank TlM is apparently the one with most %.

Now, all this shows is that TlM is simply the easiest to create a good build. This itself doesn't make it OP. While it could very well be that it has been given too much freedom, and thus too much ease in making builds, the fact is that the current "best" builds are for TlM.

Now, this just goes shwing the general lack of creativity of the community.

A fair amount use a TlM. Why? Because it has been shown it can make some of the best builds with ease, and can even be copied with ease. Those that created these working builds still stick to the builds as they work. (Most of them do, anyways) The copiers and such stick to them too, and even if they tried something else, they won't bother changing class to try something.

This causes the other classes to get much less spotlight in the eyes of the build creators and even the other players. Meanwhile, people look at TlM all the time, making it stronger and stronger. This whole thing is the reason I've stuck to a SC build. There was that one time where 50% of players I fought claimed "haha noob ur build suckzors cause SC" or something along those lines. It's been decreasing lately though.

I made the build from a scratch with one single idea behind it: Make a build that works with maxed SC. Since level 28 or so, I can count losses against players of the same or lower level with a single hand, and those matches, were either some oddball build that may or may not work in general (Genious though, to take that build down.) or I simply paid no attention. All glory to them though.

Currently, I stand at level 32, and since level 30, my win% has stayed at a fairly stable 80-90%. Let's keep in mind that I'm an terrible creator of builds (And possibly hindered by maxing SC), and how the build was never meant to be near finished yet, (I'll take more closer look upon it after I reach level 34) and we start seeing that the % is not bad at all. If these players that used their skills to create builds on other classes (And truly spend time on it), I'm sure there would be things that could match TlM in a way or another.

Hell, even these players that currently use copypasta builds might do something if they tried, instead of sticking to what they know works. By all means feel free to use such builds, no harm in that, but it might create something new.


...I forgot what my point on writing this was halfway down. Sorry.


EDIT: Also, as for stuns: The rate is fairly high. It is not "luck" to have one work. Or rather, not something you couldn't avoid.

Luck is a skill. However, you cannot directly become better in luck. No, what you must do to become better in luck, is to MINIMIZE the effects of luck. In this, builds that require stuns are bad. However, with the rate, it is a valid strategy. I use stunning. It isn't completely necessary to gain it, and it is merely a bonus to the damage I aim to get from it, but it helps.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:34:43)

@Remorse
It also same to us too in str tlm vs str tlm matches stun is the thing determine the winner , its called LUCK. The idea of stun skills is to stun oponent if they dont do stun than whats the point of those skills :P

quote:

Yes I beat them when they dont stun

and if you beat them when no stun that also means there is 22-30% chance of str tlm win and 70-78% you win so you say to nerf a build that has 30% chance to win against you

It didnt seem logical to me



sylar67 -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:36:57)

ok guys you must all read my post pls

1st of all the nowadays what makes a class oped is the passives :)

we have the mercenaries with 1 passive that are in the end of the road

then the cyber hunters that have 1 passive witch doesnt work 100% of the time ( shadow arts ) and static charge witch again doesnt work if blocked ( and isint passive )

then comes the bounty hunters that have a (again) not a 100% working passive ( blood lust ) if blocked / deflected and shadow arts witch again isint a 100% passive skill

then comes the blood mages ( not sure if tech mages were to be be4 blood mages ) that have blood lust witch (again) not a 100% working passive ( blood lust ) if blocked / deflected and deadly aim witch needs hight support requirement witch doesnt help str mages and can be deflected / used once each 2 turns

then the mages witch have reroute and deadly aim witch both dont come in handy 100% of the time

and on top of alll comes the tact merces with a passive armor and a passive energy refill with frenzy that gives them a lot of hp while doing a high damage :)

-----------------------

as for a balance idea i think that tact merces should lose frenzy / reroute to an other skill from normal merces :) and make static charge gives mana -50% if blocked :)



Baron Dante -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:37:20)

quote:

It didnt seem logical to me


This is true. If the stun is the only thing that prevents you from beating them... then all I can say is that the str tlm build sucks. BADLY.

quote:

and on top of alll comes the tact merces with a passive armor and a passive energy refill with frenzy that gives them a lot of hp while doing a high damage :)


Passive armor doesn't come handy 100% of the time, and, according to you, neither does energy refill. Frenzy is not a passive.

...your point?

...also, Passive armor, even if you attack the type of defense it is currently on, doesn't work 100% time. If the attack is blocked, it helped you not.



Remorse -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:43:45)

@Baron
If you choose to belive that their is no such things as a build which can obtain wins undeservingly then thats fine by me, then if you want to back it up with a completely unrelated stroy thats also fine.

However I belive thier is such a thing, for example the old str mercs used to have a build which could maul (stun) then beserk (kill) without the other player getting a chance at all or even a turn.


Also if you want to talk about cretivity etc. I agree with you, that doesnt mean thier cant be Oped builds and classes.

YOU CAN BE THE MOST CREATIVE PERSON IN ED and still lose to builds WHY? because some builds can get them with a few stuns and alot of luck.

As for you thinking your "Diffrent" I would be surprised if their was a player that never made a build based on idea regardless if it works, I know I make them all the time.

Alot of builds can be made to beat the Oped ones but when they come agianst a STR TLM they may win or they may stun a couple of times and tick themselfs another win which they shouldnt of obtained so easily.

Also I never said That TLMs ONLY beat me if they stun they can easily beat me fairly and I would gladly take on the defeat, I just dont think classes should be able to BYpass the hard part of battles by combining str based attacks with a stun.




Baron Dante -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 7:53:32)

quote:

However I belive thier is such a thing, for example the old str mercs used to have a build which could maul (stun) then beserk (kill) without the other player getting a chance at all or even a turn.


Let me point at a keyword. OLD. Meaning, does not do that anymore. That, was an issue with balance. An OP class. And can you say it was undeserving? It was the best oat the time then.

quote:

Also if you want to talk about cretivity etc. I agree with you, that doesnt mean thier cant be Oped builds and classes.


Classes, yes, but not builds. Builds can be made into an OP class, but that doesn't make it OP. At best, an crushingly powerful build is because an OP class exists, and that itself can be an issue, but it isn't the build the problem is.

quote:

YOU CAN BE THE MOST CREATIVE PERSON IN ED and still lose to builds WHY? because some builds can get them with a few stun and alot of luck.


As I said, luck is a form of skill. Minimize the need of it. A build that can only win with a stun is bad. However, it is still a form of strategy.

quote:

As for you thinking you "Diffrent" I would be surprised if their was a pleyr that never made a build based on idea regardless if it works Alot, I know I make them all the time.


It's not wether it is that they made a build regardless wether it worked. I was simply going to prove an SC build can be done well. I do think I've sufficiently proven this, though it still has certain weaknesses. Had it not worked, I would have tried again, until I would have been convinced it isn't possible.

However, most players give up when they can just take the "cheap" way and make a build proven to work.

quote:

Alot of builds can be made to beat the Oped ones but when they come agianst a STR TLM they may win or they may stun a coouple of times and tick themselfs another win which they shouldnt of obtained.


Again, bad strategy vs. good one. Of course it is annoying if you lose to a build that relies on luck (Thus, the player is very lacking in the skill called luck, which I've explained), but that's how games work. Learn to minimize luck, and you are much more better player than you are now.

Also, as I said... I have only lost a handful of times against players at same or lower level. This includes hundreds upon hundreds of those TlMs, with STR and Focus. They aren't even the biggest threat out there. No, STR BH's are much more difficult to deal with, when done right.

quote:

Also I never said That TLMs ONLY beat me if they stun they can easily beat me fairly and I would gladly take on the defeat, I just dont think classes should be able to BYpass the hard part of battles by combining str based attacks with a stun.


You infact did. "I beat them when they don't stun". There is no if's there. Now, as said, it is part of players skill.



Remorse -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 8:09:48)

There is no point me trying to convince you,

So all I will say is this,
I think that games like this Should not have Builds which can kill almost anything with a likely chance of luck.

And I know that it is just Luck AND I know how to minimise it but that doesnt mean I shouldnt feel frusterated by a Str TLM stunning me to win, They only reason why Its more frsuterating then a Crit winning is because you can account for a crit by making sure if they crit you wont die By having high enough HP for as long as possible.

All Im saying is the game should move more away from these types of things why should luck give people an edge over the brains as often as STR TLMs.

dont get me wrong Luck is needed and smart people should lose to it from time to time, But in my opinion Str TLMs get it more then just from time to time as I mentioed before the maul usally more then once which means they get often more then 50% chance to have a relatively effortless win AND THIS IS ALL IM SAYING IS WHAT I DISAGREE WITH.

If you dont see why its a problem then its fine IDC, We are all entiltiled to out opinions But hey at least I dont go and quote poeples Statments indidually to try and proove that My opionions are more correct than anyone elses. (cause there NOT!)



TurkishIncubus -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 8:09:51)

quote:

YOU CAN BE THE MOST CREATIVE PERSON IN ED and still lose to builds WHY? because some builds can get them with a few stun and alot of luck.


Thats a luck issue , also low dex person can block a high dex one(which is mostly str tlm) , a player blocked me with -3 dex , i had 82 dex :/ , so what is the probablity of this happen 4% ?! but it happens more than 4 % its like 20-25%

just like you lose against stuns we lose against low dex blocks thats a cycle



PivotalDisorder -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 8:12:55)

Baron Dante isn't level capped, so take everything he says with a large pinch of salt.

I'm gonna PM wiseman to find out if a skill tree overhaul for tactical mercs is still in the pipeline



Remorse -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 8:12:59)

@Turkish,
Yeh and Im saying we should move away from it a little bit.

Turkish I Understand That STR TLMs would have luck aginst them more often then most but that doesnt mean they they should be able to dish out all the luck at the same time especially to those who try to minimise it.

Maybe if you dont like luck so much youll try something diffrent and you never know you may get frsuterated at losing to STR TLMs who stun you aswell :O

@pisb
That would be great give us a shout if you get the answer [:)]



TurkishIncubus -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 8:15:27)

@Remorse

Its very funny that you call str tlm lucky most of them has 30 supp which means oponents start more than us also they deflect and crit + str tlm is not using massive dex like tank builds or it dont have shadow arts that help blocking , so most of them also dont have blocking advantage.

and when you open a thread about tlm and complain about luck factor shows that the problem isnt tlm , the problem is luck factor.



Baron Dante -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 8:16:11)

@Remorse: So, it makes a difference wether I post it in a single blurb instead of differentiating it for easier reading?

I'm not saying my opinions ae necessarily right, nor that yours are wrong. I simply disagree, just like you do with be (And clearly you care. :P)

quote:

50% chance


Nope. Even if they get stuns in I have no issues most times. You just have to make a build that can take it :/

And it isn't 50% in any way. It's simply impossible to have such high rate.

Psi: So, you are saying that after I get those last few levels and stats, I suddenly start losing more against the same players?



PivotalDisorder -> RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped. (10/28/2011 8:17:04)

if the str maul build for tactical mercs really wasn't that good then most fights against TLMs in 1v1 wouldn't be against that same build right. most times it is though.
smoke screen, technician, reroute, hybrid and maul. erm yeah wouldn't we all like those kind of skills to boost our "lesser" classes. Hybrid armor alone tips the scales.



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition
0.125